closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: New (to me) JLC anyone have any info on this watch?

  1. #1
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485

    New (to me) JLC anyone have any info on this watch?









    Recently got this because I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Unfortunately the strap is beyond use as it's very fragile. I want to put a new strap on it but would like to know if anyone has any info on a watch this old, apparently it is WW2 era.

    It's keeping really good time. How long should I expect from a a full wind?

    TIA Spud.

  2. #2
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Is this watch so frikin cool everyone's stunned into silence?

  3. #3
    Master alfat33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    London
    Posts
    6,196
    Something like that. :)

    Do you feel confident to take the back off and photograph the movement?

    Please don't take any risks!

  4. #4
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    289
    It's definitely a 1940s JLC but not military. That may be why people are not responding?

    Those types of designs are often mis-identified as "military" by unscrupulous sellers just because they are steel or chromed (as this one is) and have a black dial with luminous numerals and hands.
    However this is a civilian design, just because there are numbers at the back doesn't make it military either.
    Military watches have markings indicating what government issued them for which branch of their military. No such thing here.

    Alternatively, if you have documentary proof (letters, photos, service records) that a watch has belonged to someone while that person was in the military, you have a watch with a military connection.
    (that doesn't make it a "military" watch in the strict sense, though, but it has "military provenance").

    There are several types of caliber it could have inside, hard to say without opening it.

    However your best option is definitely to bring it to a professional watchmaker if you don't want to risk damaging the caseback.
    (a real watchmaker, not just a jeweler or the guy who changes batteries in a store).

    People who are not professionals only have themselves to blame when they gouge their caseback as can be seen so often -- and once that big scratch is there it's too late to cry.

    Too bad the strap is fragile as it does look very cool.
    Best regards,
    S
    Last edited by Plume; 26th December 2016 at 17:38.

  5. #5
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    798
    .. .that looks like a black dial E159, likely with a cal.478 inside. My white dial looks as thus:



    ... and that had a 478 in. Late 40s/early 1950s, 'B' mark on the rear denotes chromium base metal plated I believe.

    The other that crops up is an E109 - which has the cal.463 sub seconds in it (google will get you a variety of pictures). That one crops up
    in what is reputedly a military watch but not issued nor confirmed (see threads passim on MWR for JLC & wehrmacht which should get you
    the hits on that).

    Nice watches- mine runs very accurately; the issue with the chromium/plated fellas is that they looked bashed quickly. Brendan (who serviced mine) can
    replate if I recall, also.

    cheers,
    al

  6. #6
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,891
    The good news is that no one has been telling porkies about this watch, just that I recommended to him that he be sure it didn't have a military provence before doing things like taking that old strap off. Glad to hear that he can get on with enjoying his watch how he wants to without worrying about destroying value.

  7. #7
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Berlin, London and sometimes Dublin
    Posts
    14,888
    I can't disagree with anything already stated above. I'd also recommend a trip to Zaf's vintage JLC forum:

    http://www.classicwatch.com/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=3

  8. #8
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    798
    PS - forgot to add to original query - I get around c.40hrs worth from a full wind of my E159, but I did get a new mainspring when serviced.

    al

  9. #9
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by alslater View Post
    .. .that looks like a black dial E159, likely with a cal.478 inside. My white dial looks as thus:



    ... and that had a 478 in. Late 40s/early 1950s, 'B' mark on the rear denotes chromium base metal plated I believe.

    The other that crops up is an E109 - which has the cal.463 sub seconds in it (google will get you a variety of pictures). That one crops up
    in what is reputedly a military watch but not issued nor confirmed (see threads passim on MWR for JLC & wehrmacht which should get you
    the hits on that).
    Really nice watch and interesting info, thanks for that.

  10. #10
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    No wonder no replies in the wrong section.

    Does the back just pop off? I'm not overly precious about it (even though it cost quite a bit in the end) as it's had a beating throughout its life.

    I've no reason to believe it's actually military although the autioneer described at as WW2. Maybe a little play on words if it's that era to gain more interest, who knows. I never bought it because it was WW2 but it would have made it more interesting.

    I don't get 40hrs but over 24 that's for sure. There's a place called the Old Watch Shop in Southport which is not a million miles from me so I might go in there to ask his opinion on it's internal condition. He may have no interest whatsoever of course.

    Thanks for all the other info I'll head over to the other forum to see if I can get anymore details.

    BTW the white face looks really nice, where did you get the strap from?


    Cheers Spud.

  11. #11
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    opps double post.

  12. #12
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Everywhere & nowhere, baby
    Posts
    37,484
    Edit: Not to worry - if you haven't got time to say thank you I'll let you do your own research.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 27th December 2016 at 21:03.

  13. #13
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Actually I take it back about hte military thing. I've just looked at the description in the auction and it is in fact described as an "Army watch".

    Mmm, seems I got a bit swizzed.

  14. #14
    Master alfat33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    London
    Posts
    6,196
    Depends if you paid much extra because you thought it was 'issued'. It's a lovely thing in its own right, from one of the best manufacturers, and apparently genuine and working OK by the sound of it. I'd be happy if I were in your shoes.

    Plus you got to meet a few people and learn something :). For the next purchase?

  15. #15
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    I wouldn't say I paid "extra" because I thought it was military but I just expect what I'm buying to be what they say it is because it makes me feel somewhat diddled due to my lack of knowledge.

    However I do really like it so I'm going to plough on and get a strap so I can wear the thing.

    As for buying more I really have to stop because I've bought 4 watches off the forum already.
    Last edited by spud767; 27th December 2016 at 15:01.

  16. #16
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    798
    .. just one more to chuck in - the supposed 'wehrmacht' JLCs seem to be quoted with matching caseback and movement serials.

    This has been done at much more length elsewhere also - see MWR / Zaf's classicwatch.com / Watchprosite - but AFAIR, those all were subsecond
    cal 463s (happy to be corrected, though).

    one oddity the OP's does have is non-spring bars - interesting to note that these cropped up elsewhere on civilian models, as..

    for example on my other elderly JLC which is a civilian flavour of the 6B, looks like (on the left - cal463 fellow on the right gone elsewhere):



    .. came with semi-fixed / shoulderless bars - i.e. had a collar that rotated but not removable without force.. [I had those removed
    on mine but I still have one of them for posterity].

    As noted to OP over PM, the strap on the left came from Martu leather in Chile - she's does a great vintage leather in custom sizes.

    al

  17. #17
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Edit: Not to worry - if you haven't got time to say thank you I'll let you do your own research.
    Apologies I thought it was a given, no need for that. Anyway a belated thanks for the deleted info.

    And thanks to everyone who hasn't deleted, I've asked on the other forum recommended as well and will report back post haste.

  18. #18
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by alslater View Post
    .. just one more to chuck in - the supposed 'wehrmacht' JLCs seem to be quoted with matching caseback and movement serials.

    This has been done at much more length elsewhere also - see MWR / Zaf's classicwatch.com / Watchprosite - but AFAIR, those all were subsecond
    cal 463s (happy to be corrected, though).

    one oddity the OP's does have is non-spring bars - interesting to note that these cropped up elsewhere on civilian models, as..

    for example on my other elderly JLC which is a civilian flavour of the 6B, looks like (on the left - cal463 fellow on the right gone elsewhere):


    .. came with semi-fixed / shoulderless bars - i.e. had a collar that rotated but not removable without force.. [I had those removed
    on mine but I still have one of them for posterity].

    As noted to OP over PM, the strap on the left came from Martu leather in Chile - she's does a great vintage leather in custom sizes.

    al
    The case on mine looks more similar to the one on the right I think.

  19. #19
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    289
    Hey Al,
    thanks for the interesting info about the mysterious supposed Wehrmacht connection. Will have to look it up.

    OP, it would be a pity to destroy that nice strap, some people would love an authentic weathered strap like that.
    perhaps a skilled cobbler could reinforce it?

    The Old Watch Shop would be an excellent ressource.
    That's Mike Woods, a respected dealer, true gentleman, and most knowledgeable person on vintage (military) watches.
    Last edited by Plume; 28th December 2016 at 00:21.

  20. #20
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Berlin, London and sometimes Dublin
    Posts
    14,888
    Quote Originally Posted by Plume View Post
    OP, it would be a pity to destroy that nice strap, some people would love an authentic weathered strap like that.
    perhaps a skilled cobbler could reinforce it?
    Interestingly these people seem to offer a restoration service though I suspect they probably have luggage more in mind:

    http://sabelsaddlery.co.uk/restoration.html

  21. #21
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Right then I've taken the back off and it looks nice in there to the untrained eye at least. There's some numbers scratched onto the case back that looks like 251/49 and 6,5004.

    Regarding the strap it looks brilliant but if you see the wear to it on the underside I could probably break that if I pulled hard enough. I think it would have to be a strap person if it went for restoration.

    I guess this also shows the case and movement don't match.












  22. #22
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Berlin, London and sometimes Dublin
    Posts
    14,888
    The leather can be fed but I think I'd just put that to one side in the strap drawer; good money after bad is the expression that comes to mind.

  23. #23
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Sadly I think you're right. Shame though because I can't see many more of these being around and they suit the watch perfectly.

    On a positive note at least when I've opened the back up there isn't a Chinese movement made last week in there. :-)

  24. #24
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    Interestingly these people seem to offer a restoration service though I suspect they probably have luggage more in mind:

    http://sabelsaddlery.co.uk/restoration.html
    It seems they make could straps too, someone in a separate thread (the one on Jean Rousseau) said they got a bespoke strap from them.

  25. #25
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    oop north
    Posts
    485
    Watch straps are becoming the bane of my life. Who knew?


    Also the JLC forum came up with the same conclusion that's it's a P478 which was rightly suggested earlier.

    Here's a link to another members 478 with some interesting info. Although comparing to the inside mine it could probably do with a bit of a clean. Out with the screwdrivers lol.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...syeHFlfsKCCx6w

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by alslater View Post
    semi-fixed / shoulderless bars - i.e. had a collar that rotated but not removable without force.. [I had those removed
    on mine but I still have one of them for posterity].

    As noted to OP over PM, the strap on the left came from Martu leather in Chile - she's does a great vintage leather in custom sizes.

    al
    You can buy new replacement ones. 16mm on these I think?

    I love shoulderless bars, they complete the vintage look in a tiny but vital way. But they do need cutting out unless you have drilled lugs.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information