You can't. Mercedes managed to do it last year at Spa, with Hamilton using new elements in each session and starting at the back, but the FIA blocked that particular loophole.Originally Posted by jaytip
Because Vettel used a new ICE today, his fourth, he can change that again this weekend (with a penalty) and the first unit can go back into the rotation (as long as it's serviceable), and he can take a new turbo, also with a penalty. Ferrari use their allocation differently, using all four of each permitted element throughout the season (with the possible exception of the ICE, as this is the component most likely to be upgraded during the season), but just because they're "used" that doesn't mean that their usable life has expired. As long as no more than four of each component is used during the season, there is no penalty. Grid penalties kick in when a driver needs a fifth component.
There's a storm brewing:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...switch-958936/
High-ranking FIA official with unlimited access to all of the teams is signed up by Renault. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth, as teams cry "foul!" and worry that their design secrets and development plans, which have cost them a fortune in R&D will be available to Renault.
They do have a point.
personally I cannot get to excited. He has to take a 3 month garden leave before starting with Renault.
Horner sounded a bit miffed because he did not know the guy was even available.
Any way back to qualification.
Such a shame about Vettel, but an opportunity for him to get some overtaking practice tomorrow.
Great work by Kimi and Lewis - should a good (and fair) fight tomorrow.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
It's a point and squirt circuit, two very long straits, the Fiat will be in the points by lap four, I reckon a podium if he doesn't brake.
I've got to assume you mean break!
Or maybe not.
Ah, ok. I thought they had changed it so that you could only replace the broken part.
Last edited by jaytip; 1st October 2017 at 02:59.
:-) it's an iphone, but on that circuit I could mean either, he will fly by them with DRS, it's overtaking, but not racingI've got to assume you mean break!
Or maybe not.
I had exactly the same thought when watching this. Quite strange to listen to.
Everytime I hear Toto speak, I close my eyes and I swear it's Arnie. Everytime
Looks like Kimi's car has broken already, it doesn't bode well for Ferrari but could be an interesting race down the field!
Did Toto Wolf just imply that Vettel ran into Stroll deliberately because he was running low on fuel getting back to the pits? Or did I misunderstand?
All in all, the stewards had an easier day.
I read exactly the same thing into that comment. Also why take the steering wheel, I’d understood that the rules dictate that stays with the car? Mind, Vettel has some luck with the Stewards so I expect no penalty for either incident.
I thought the steering wheel thing was bizarre as well, as I had the same understanding of the rules. It is possible thought that the steering wheel is required for the stewards to steer the car out of the way, and as the car was going nowhere and the race was finished he may have wanted to keep it out of prying eyes?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Confirmed no penalty for Vettel, FIA help again. (The crash could be argued to be 50:50 although I have my own opinion) but the steering wheel and ride back with Pasqual should surely be punished or is Vettel above that? This season would seem to suggest that.
Now wondering whether he’ll get a gearbox penalty or not?
The rule backs that up:I thought the steering wheel thing was bizarre as well, as I had the same understanding of the rules. It is possible thought that the steering wheel is required for the stewards to steer the car out of the way, and as the car was going nowhere and the race was finished he may have wanted to keep it out of prying eyes?
22.5 A driver who abandons a car must leave it in neutral or with the clutch disengaged, with the ERS shut down and with the steering wheel in place.
On the other hand, the race had finished...might that make a difference?
Good point but the rule desn’t reference a timeframe, just an action that must result from a particular situation. Unless it’s referenced elsewhere of course.
Ferrari International Assistance (FIA) at it again. Any other driver/team would have seen some severe penalties for his actions over the last few races.
Fantastic and well deserved win for Max. He drove the perfect race today, but the drive of the day for me has to go to Seb. 20th to 4th was a fantastic result.
Excellent win for Max, but I couldn't help thinking that Lewis was saving his engine whilst also getting more points on Vettel. It would be a sensible and mature thing to do.
Driver of the day for me was Vandoorne.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Just watching the Vettel Incident again and I am still staggered how anyone can suggest it was 50:50 to be honest.
Strool is taking a very relaxed and easy line into the corner and for some reason Vettel decides to go for the apex and cut him off.
A racing incident? Well no the race was finished. Also Vettel claims he was picking up rubber, in which case why not stick to the outside of the track - where it's found. Finally why launch into an attack on Strool - clearly he was just minding his own business. A better play might have just to accept it.
Bizarre to say the least.
As for the steering wheel - the rules are the rules and no matter the incident the wheel remains with the car at all times.
A question. Given that his car was given a points finish surely it had to go through scrutinering at the end of the race and be checked. Did this happen? If it did how did it pass the weight test with so much missing including the Steering wheels which was originally in the car?
Something does not smell right
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Agree 100%. What I said to my wife when happened. I can't see how he got away with it.
Broken or missing parts can be replaced for the post-race weight check.
Come on Hamilton.
The conspiracy theorists are loving this one
Conspiracy?
He was awarded the position long before any parts were replaced, hence my question regarding Parc Ferme
Unless of course the FIA didn't bother.
But who cares, another 20 points for Lewis and a 34 point advantage with 5 races to go.
And Vettel, once again, demonstrating a serious lack of judgement. At this rate he could get someone killed.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
That he was below the min fuel level so did it deliberately and the fuel guage is on the steering wheel.
Nah, data logging which could be examined.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I like a good conspiracy but I can't see it. The chances of staging an accidental bump that cripples a car on the warm-down lap are pretty slim.
I'm not sure about any conspiracy, but isn't it time that Vetel had an eye test! That's the third big accident this season where he has not seen another car, and this is the second that has been at slow speed (Sotchi crash with Lewis behind safety car). Even if it wasn't his fault, he should have seen the Williams in front of him. When I learned to drive it was drummed into me to watch other drivers in case they do something stupid - whoever was at fault, he could easily have seen what was happening and avoided this accident. But he didn't.
There is no "fuel gauge". Fuel usage is monitored by telemetry and the driver instructed to alter engine modes during the race to reduce fuel use if necessary.
As Chris says, data logging would reveal all. The rules state that the car must have a minimum specified quantity of fuel (if my memory serves me correctly this is one litre) on board for the post-race check.
The concern now for Ferrari is the state of Vettel's gearbox, which was installed for Singapore, and needs to last for six races. Although the ratios can be changed between races, the gearbox casing must remain, and is a stressed member, and that was quite an impact. Nobody is going to deliberately place their car in such a position as to inflict a level of damage which could easily, as would be the case with a rear wheel impact, damage a gearbox and result in a grid penalty at the next race.
What you've done there is undermine your own argument by making a simple, basic mistake.
but what if having the accident stops you being checked after this race, a gearbox replacement for the next race and 5 place drop is worth it if your'e at a similar circuit and the speed thats in the car can make up 5 places no problem
Is it post race or post qualifying that mandates the 1 litre minimum? I thought it was post qualifying as a result of either Red Bull or McLaren being penalised a few years ago. (Was it Lewis in fact?).
I suppose it's possible that not making it back to the pits (under its own steam) would have ensured the car had enough fuel. Consumption must have been pretty high given the amount of time stuck behind other drivers especially in the twisty bits.
So the question is why a 4 times world champion with over 100 F1 starts drive into another car on the slow down lap (at low speed) and then replace the steering wheel, before forgetting all the rules, and going back to the car and removing it again.
If he had run out of petrol and or failed the weight test would he been excluded from the race and lost all his points, or would be suffered a grid penality at the next race? If the former then it could explain his action.
But it remains a very odd affair.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Not how I saw it. This is the view of the incident from the car behind. From this angle it looks more like Stroll moving towards Vettel.
https://streamable.com/yxg48
Last edited by RS404; 1st October 2017 at 22:22.
It's post race. There has been a few races over the years where the team have instructed a car to pull over at the side of the track at the end of the race to ensure there is the required litre of fuel in the car.
Only just finished watching the race, seeing as it's late and I need some zeds I'll comment further later however I'll say this much ref Stroll vs Vettel.
Vettel appears to be taking a constant radius line around the bend, it was Stroll that suddenly started to run wide away from the apex just as Vettel was approaching and took the German out. Vettel is the innocent party here.
Lovely drive from Stoffel is what is still a dog of a car - driver of the day for me.
SV has given his explanation for taking the steering wheel with him (link):
When asked by Motorsport.com why he took it with him, Vettel replied: "It was a sort of reflex.
"I saw Pascal was stopped and I couldn't get the steering wheel back on because the steering column was completely turned.
"Obviously the car was damaged. I put it in the seat, and it was reflex – sometimes they open the track to spectators, so I thought that's the only loose bit.
"Because I couldn't put it on I thought I might as well take it with me just to make sure. You don't want to lose a steering wheel. Was it necessary? Probably not."
But he needn't have worried because (link):
The stewards admitted afterwards they had not really considered the steering wheel removal, having focused on the crash, although they did address the lift home with the Sauber, giving Vettel no more than a ticking off in stressing tha "even though the race has ended, caution still needs to be exercised by all drivers on the slow-down lap."
Dont think that's the best view to draw conclusions from, the car with the camera on accelerates which exaggerates any movement Stroll made
There is also a sequence of images from Vettel's car here. I know that black lines on a track are not necessarily a good indicator, but it looks as if Seb was moving to left at the same time that Stroll was coming across. Stroll was slightly in front, so it seems unlikely that Seb was cutting into the apex because he would have known that Stroll was there?
As for the incident itself, looking at the video:
...I see SV with a constant left steering input even as the gap to LS's car closes alarmingly. I find that puzzling as the other car was surely visible to SV, IMO. This lacks the cat like responses normally attributed to racing drivers. Was he half asleep at the wheel?
Other than when racing, practising or qualifying, drivers would do well to adopt the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea Rule 13:
Overtaking.
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
...
(d) Any subsequent alteration of bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.
And hoisted a Not Under Command signal :)
SV's post race interview - he seemed quite happy with the outcome, contrary to his comms to the team at the time (setting the scene??)
So - what exactly is the advantage he carries to the next race? (if we were to assume that he deliberately collided with the other car)
If the car is so damaged - does he have to retain any principal components (g-box for example).
Al
That looks like quite a bit of lock to me, you don't need to hit the apex on the slow down lapAs for the incident itself, looking at the video:
...I see SV with a constant left steering input even as the gap to LS's car closes alarmingly. I find that puzzling as the other car was surely visible to SV, IMO. This lacks the cat like responses normally attributed to racing drivers. Was he half asleep at the wheel?
Other than when racing, practising or qualifying, drivers would do well to adopt the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea Rule 13:
Overtaking.
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
...
(d) Any subsequent alteration of bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.
Yeah, sure, he lét him win. Atta boy.
I'm sure he didn't but if you know you're not going to catch/keep up with the car in front, it makes a lot of sense to settle for second and prolong the life of the components.
We can go round and round on this one but it's clear they took different lines through the corner (or were planning to). There's obviously no need to take the racing line or 'clip the apex' on the warm-down lap so different lines are to be expected. Unless/until I see evidence that Stroll did it deliberately it's Vettel's responsibility, as the overtaking driver, to avoid the collision.
I agree that they were intending on taking different lines through that corner however I disagree that Vettel was solely responsible for their coming together.
It appears that Stroll initially intended on taking a tighter line through the left-hander (a line that would have been clear of marbles) and that Vettel was lining up to take a wider line around the outside of Stroll. Just at the point at which Vettel starts to overtake Stroll the Canadian winds off some steering lock, possibly in order to move to the outside where he can pick up tyre debris; it isn't a maneuver that Vettel could have could have been reasonably expected to predict and it wasn't a maneuver that he had time to avoid.
The stewards have decided that neither driver should be penalised however, IMO, if either should have been picked up on it it should have been Stroll. It could have been considered to be an erratic move across the circuit without checking his mirrors before he changed his line.
For the DC's sake I'm glad that Vettel made up the places that he did and that Hamilton didn't score maximum points, the season has been building up to a climax and it would be a huge shame if that were to be extinguished. It's also a shame that amongst all this chat about both the DC and Stroll vs Vettel Verstappen's performance has been overshadowed - the young gun played an absolute blinder, credit to him!
Edit - just watched the incident again. Vettel holds a constant line around the bend without closing in on Stroll, he's already started to pass Stroll when Stroll winds some lock off. Nothing that Vettel could have done about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZuhagLmgDI
RS404's link - https://streamable.com/yxg48
Last edited by CardShark; 2nd October 2017 at 15:37.
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