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Thread: Formula 1 2017

  1. #1901
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Tried watching it but got bored in about two minutes.
    You mean F1 or FE?
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  2. #1902
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    You mean F1 or FE?
    I think jaytip was referring to FE.

    I missed this morning's race though I'll watch tomorrow's, not looking forward to VK however I think I'll cope. It's good to see that C4 in the UK have taken up the TV rights for the entire season live, I'd guess that the cost is significantly cheaper than F1 and I'd also take a guess that the TV costs are being kept low so as to attract non PPV channels to the fray maximizing potential coverage and viewing figures for the new(ish) formula.

  3. #1903
    Perhaps we need a separate Formula E thread?

    Back in the world of Formula 1, Sauber have confirmed Charles LeClerc and Marcus Ericsson for 2018, the latter presumably more for financial reasons than his potential as a driver. Antonio Giovinazzi is the reserve driver, and the Ferrari engines will, as expected, be badged Alfa Romeo. They will be current-spec Ferrari power units, rather than the year-old units which Sauber were forced to run this season.

    All of which should hopefully point to a more successful season in 2018. The Saubers suffered from a lack of power this year, and neither driver was able to qualify or race with much conviction. LeClerc and Giovinazzi are Ferrari backed, and LeClerc has had a very impressive season in F2, culminating in the Drivers' Championship this year backing up his GP3 title in 2016, and if rumours are to be believed could be in line for the second Ferrari seat in 2019.

  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    You mean F1 or FE?
    FE.

  5. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Perhaps we need a separate Formula E thread?

    ...
    We had one (link)...in 2015. It lasted until mid-2016 gathering 18 posts along the way.

    But don't let that put anyone off of starting 'Formula E 2018'.

  6. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    We had one (link)...in 2015. It lasted until mid-2016 gathering 18 posts along the way.

    But don't let that put anyone off of starting 'Formula E 2018'.
    Which just about sums up the extent to which Formula E interests the general population of motor racing enthusiasts. Still, it keeps the Formula 1 thread clearer, and there's no cross-pollination, so why not?

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Perhaps we need a separate Formula E thread?

    Back in the world of Formula 1, Sauber have confirmed Charles LeClerc and Marcus Ericsson for 2018, the latter presumably more for financial reasons than his potential as a driver. Antonio Giovinazzi is the reserve driver, and the Ferrari engines will, as expected, be badged Alfa Romeo. They will be current-spec Ferrari power units, rather than the year-old units which Sauber were forced to run this season.

    All of which should hopefully point to a more successful season in 2018. The Saubers suffered from a lack of power this year, and neither driver was able to qualify or race with much conviction. LeClerc and Giovinazzi are Ferrari backed, and LeClerc has had a very impressive season in F2, culminating in the Drivers' Championship this year backing up his GP3 title in 2016, and if rumours are to be believed could be in line for the second Ferrari seat in 2019.
    So Wehrlein is seat-less? Not seen anything about him going back to Merc and we know Williams is out due the Martini requirements. Engine spec is good news for them but I can't see them progressing much.

  8. #1908
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    So Wehrlein is seat-less? Not seen anything about him going back to Merc and we know Williams is out due the Martini requirements. Engine spec is good news for them but I can't see them progressing much.
    Wehrlein is likely to return to the DTM, I believe.

    He arrived in F1 accompanied by a bit of a fanfare, but has spent too much time in back-of-the-grid cars, which hasn't done his reputation much good.

    Neither did the mystery injury sustained at last year's Race of Champions, which kept him out of action at the beginning of 2017. There's a lot about him that doesn't seem to add up.

  9. #1909
    Yep there were also whispers about his temperament and attitude, which suggested he didn't want to spend more time in those teams and felt he deserved a better seat. He's clearly talented but perhaps not F1 talented.

  10. #1910
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  11. #1911
    • 25 maart, GP van Australië, Melbourne 🇦🇺
    • 8 april, GP van Bahrein, Sakhir 🇧🇭
    • 15 april, GP van China, Shanghai 🇨🇳
    • 29 april, GP van Azerbeidzjan, Baku 🇦🇿
    • 13 mei, GP van Spanje, Barcelona 🇪🇸
    • 27 mei, GP van Monaco, Monte Carlo 🇲🇨
    • 10 juni, GP van Canada, Montreal 🇨🇦
    • 24 juni, GP van Frankrijk, Le Castellet 🇫🇷
    • 1 juli, GP van Oostenrijk, Spielberg 🇦🇹
    • 8 juli, GP van Groot-Brittannië, Silverstone 🇬🇧
    • 22 juli, GP van Duitsland, Hockenheim 🇩🇪
    • 29 juli, GP van Hongarije, Boedapest 🇭🇺
    • 26 augustus, GP van België, Spa-Francorchamps 🇧🇪
    • 2 september, GP van Italië, Monza 🇮🇹
    • 16 september, GP van Singapore, Marina Bay 🇸🇬
    • 30 september, GP van Rusland, Sochi 🇷🇺
    • 7 oktober, GP van Japan, Suzuka 🇯🇵
    • 21 oktober, GP van Amerika, Austin 🇺🇸
    • 28 oktober, GP van Mexico, Mexico Stad 🇲🇽
    • 11 november, GP van Brazilië, Sao Paulo 🇧🇷
    • 25 november, GP van Abu Dhabi, Yas Marina 🇦🇪


    The official 2018 Calender - in Dutch, but I am sure you get the message.

    Time to open a new thread called 'F1 2018' or similar?

    Menno

  12. #1912
    Meanwhile, the great and the good have attended the inauguration of the FIA's Hall of Fame.

    If you watch the video, the editing is shocking, by the way.

    This year's World Champion was either:

    a/ Not invited, or

    b/ Doing something more important.


    https://www.pitpass.com/60850/Nine-w...Fame-induction

  13. #1913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Meanwhile, the great and the good have attended the inauguration of the FIA's Hall of Fame.

    If you watch the video, the editing is shocking, by the way.

    This year's World Champion was either:

    a/ Not invited, or

    b/ Doing something more important.


    https://www.pitpass.com/60850/Nine-w...Fame-induction

    I was a bit confused as to who was being inducted, but FIM tells me it was "all 33 winners of motor sport’s most prestigious title": link and photos.


    Apparently Lewis wasn't in Paris because he was in London that night: link & picture. But he did pick up the BDRC Gold Star award earlier in the day: link.


    NB I'm going by the dates of the tweet, his reference to 'yesterday' and a Guardian article (link).
    Last edited by PickleB; 7th December 2017 at 17:00. Reason: added info on LH

  14. #1914
    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I was a bit confused as to who was being inducted, but FIM tells me it was "all 33 winners of motor sport’s most prestigious title": link and photos.


    Apparently Lewis wasn't in Paris because he was in London that night: link & picture. But he did pick up the BDRC Gold Star award earlier in the day: link.


    NB I'm going by the dates of the tweet, his reference to 'yesterday' and a Guardian article (link).
    Are there any "off-duty" pictures of Lewis Hamilton in which he doesn't look like a monumental bell-end?

  15. #1915
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    I love the expression on the face of the guy just in shot on the left hand side of the frame.

    Caption/speech bubble competition anyone?

  16. #1916
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    I love the expression on the face of the guy just in shot on the left hand side of the frame.

    Caption/speech bubble competition anyone?

    You have to scroll down the comments to find "Slap on some yellow pants and you’ve got Rupert the Bear!"




    I bet he didn't pay for the outfit. Rather, it being a fashion event, I suspect it was on loan for the occasion. But, if he did pay for it...

  17. #1917
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    I rather like "Lewis you look (like) my nan's tin of shortbread she keeps her money in for the window cleaner"


    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  18. #1918
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    But he did pick up the BDRC Gold Star award earlier in the day: link.
    Why aren't people allowed to shake hands these days?
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  19. #1919
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    Its odd that 3 times F1 World Champion Jackie Stewart wears tartan and no one bats an eye lid.

    Lewis Hamilton (Scottish name BTW), 4 times F1 world champion wears tartan and gets slagged off.

    Racism or just plain old stupidity

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  20. #1920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Its odd that 3 times F1 World Champion Jackie Stewart wears tartan and no one bats an eye lid.

    Lewis Hamilton (Scottish name BTW), 4 times F1 world champion wears tartan and gets slagged off.

    Racism or just plain old stupidity

    I don't know you well enough to offer an opinion. Sorry...

  21. #1921
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Its odd that 3 times F1 World Champion Jackie Stewart wears tartan and no one bats an eye lid.

    Lewis Hamilton (Scottish name BTW), 4 times F1 world champion wears tartan and gets slagged off.

    Racism or just plain old stupidity
    You mean Scottish (and proud of it) Jackie Stewart wears the Stewart tartan and no-one bats an eyelid?

    And Lewis Hamilton from England gets dressed up in some comedy outfit and gets slagged off?

    I'd say that's perfectly reasonable.

  22. #1922
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    Any update on the Williams seat yet ?

  23. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I don't know you well enough to offer an opinion. Sorry...
    I'm inclined to go for both.

    Just for any stupid racists reading this thread, here's a picture of another (multiple) world champion in a skirt.

    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  24. #1924
    Quote Originally Posted by Robti View Post
    Any update on the Williams seat yet ?
    Not yet. Here's Mark Hughes' take on it:

    https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...stions-answers

  25. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    You mean Scottish (and proud of it) Jackie Stewart wears the Stewart tartan and no-one bats an eyelid?

    And Lewis Hamilton from England gets dressed up in some comedy outfit and gets slagged off?

    I'd say that's perfectly reasonable.

    Wow, you know LH lineage as well. Truely impressed. Not born in Scotland, does not live in Scotland therefore must not wear Tartan. Fair enough.

    But you better tell Rod Stewart. Not born in Scotland, does not live in Scotland, yet likes to sport Tartan.

    And if RS is acceptable to you then so must be Donald Trump - mother was Scottish, but he was not born or lives in Scotland, but at least owns property in Scotland.


    As for wearing a "comedy outfit", you might have to explain yourself to the Scots on the site as they might be offended.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  26. #1926
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    Is this what LH wears?
    Well, everybody in Casablanca has problems. Yours may work out.

  27. #1927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    ...here's a picture of another (multiple) world champion in a skirt.

    Was he travelling incognito when this was taken?



    https://www.kinlochanderson.com/tartan/clark

  28. #1928
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Not yet. Here's Mark Hughes' take on it:

    https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...stions-answers
    That reads pretty well for him IMO despite Mark Hughes' observations and reluctance to nail Kubica's name to the Williams mast. On Kubica's first day it was thought that he was (net) faster than Massa and recommended set-up changes that could well have been responsible for Sirotkin to go even quicker the following morning with Kubica's flying lap pace on the second day being inconclusive. Single lap pace cannot be ignored as grid positions can make or break a race however, in summary, it reads as an overall positive for RK - a win followed by a draw, if you like. Still, only Williams will know the situation in full, and if his physical fitness, ability to fulfill all of the safety obligations (for example, a driver must be able to remove the steering wheel and get out of the car within 5 seconds and then replace the steering wheel in a total of 10 seconds, though testing wouldn't be allowed if he couldn't already do this) and his insurance situation* can be fixed then I think he's in. I read somewhere that Williams will make an announcement before Christmas, in which case someone will have a FW41 shaped present under their tree.

    In other news, despite Lewis Hamilton's fashion faux pas he was voted, by some margin, the best driver of 2017 by this season's Team Principles. His teammate was a lowly 10th... Honda F1's Head Honcho Yusuke Hasegawa has been given the heave-ho with his role to be split into two, Engine Development and Race Operation. For 2018 onwards engine oil cannot be used as fuel, Jean Todt has been re-elected as the president of the FIA and Vettel has vowed to race "wiser". So, no more wheel clashing from the German then. Righto.

    There has also been some news concerning the much discussed grid penalty system -from now on, any driver that earns more than a 15-place grid penalty (which is the equivalent of taking three extra new elements for the first time) will have to start from the back of the grid. The thinking behind this is to make it less confusing for race fans though I'm sure that this mild tweak doesn't go far enough, if at all, to appease those that feel that any driver penalisation through a fault not of their making is unfair.

    *Edit - After Kubica was injured in his rally accident insurance was paid out to him on the basis that he'd never race in F1 again, given that this is now a possibility monies may need to be paid back.
    Last edited by CardShark; 8th December 2017 at 17:30.

  29. #1929
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    That reads pretty well for him IMO despite Mark Hughes' observations and reluctance to nail Kubica's name to the Williams mast. On Kubica's first day it was thought that he was (net) faster than Massa and recommended set-up changes that could well have been responsible for Sirotkin to go even quicker the following morning with Kubica's flying lap pace on the second day being inconclusive. Single lap pace cannot be ignored as grid positions can make or break a race however, in summary, it reads as an overall positive for RK - a win followed by a draw, if you like. Still, only Williams will know the situation in full, and if his physical fitness, ability to fulfill all of the safety obligations (for example, a driver must be able to remove the steering wheel and get out of the car within 5 seconds and then replace the steering wheel in a total of 10 seconds, though testing wouldn't be allowed if he couldn't already do this) and his insurance situation* can be fixed then I think he's in. I read somewhere that Williams will make an announcement before Christmas, in which case someone will have a FW41 shaped present under their tree.

    In other news, despite Lewis Hamilton's fashion faux pas he was voted, by some margin, the best driver of 2017 by this season's Team Principles. His teammate was a lowly 10th... Honda F1's Head Honcho Yusuke Hasegawa has been given the heave-ho with his role to be split into two, Engine Development and Race Operation. For 2018 onwards engine oil cannot be used as fuel, Jean Todt has been re-elected as the president of the FIA and Vettel has vowed to race "wiser". So, no more wheel clashing from the German then. Righto.

    There has also been some news concerning the much discussed grid penalty system -from now on, any driver that earns more than a 15-place grid penalty (which is the equivalent of taking three extra new elements for the first time) will have to start from the back of the grid. The thinking behind this is to make it less confusing for race fans though I'm sure that this mild tweak doesn't go far enough, if at all, to appease those that feel that any driver penalisation through a fault not of their making is unfair.

    *Edit - After Kubica was injured in his rally accident insurance was paid out to him on the basis that he'd never race in F1 again, given that this is now a possibility monies may need to be paid back.

    whilst its laudable that Williams are considering this, personally I doubt it will happen for a number of reasons.

    1) Williams will incur addition costs modifying the car the suit him.
    2) that there might be some safety issues associated. Can he for example get out of the car fast enough?
    3) is he that good to take the risk - my view would be no.

    It's great PR for both Williams and Kubica, but I can think of a few better qualified ex-F1 or F2 drivers Who might be worth a punt.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  30. #1930
    Sounds like it's going to be either one Russian or the other, then. Based purely on performance? It's easy to be cynical, I'd hope that with Stroll Snr's dollar Williams could afford to take on someone who's less financially endowed if the speed really is there.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...kubica-987849/

  31. #1931
    Noises this week indicate that the Williams version of Captain Jack Sparrow's compass is pointing in the direction of Sirotkin.

    Quite why Williams would go to the expense of signing Paddy Lowe and then handicap themselves with two (very) inexperienced drivers is beyond me. Stroll's final points total and positioning in the Drivers' Championship somewhat belies his actual performance, which is flattered by his Baku podium, which was largely the result of the misfortune of others rather than his own achievement. And Sirotkin has had a few Friday FP1 outings with Renault, but has no race experience in the hybrid era. Neither of them appear capable or credible team leaders.

    And Williams need a team leader right now. Somebody to work alongside Paddy Lowe and Rob Smedley to develop the car, and mentor Lance Stroll. There aren't many candidates who can fulfil that particular role, and that list doesn't include Kubica, who hasn't raced in the hybrid era, and he also lacks any experience of the Pirelli tyres, management of which is the key to success. The only candidates on the (known) short list with those qualifications are Paul di Resta and Daniil Kvyat, neither of whom appear to be in contention any more. Or, as far as I can tell, have the ability to motivate a team.

    I'd be extremely interested to see any recent interviews with Patrick Head, but he seems to be uncharacteristically quiet at the moment.

  32. #1932
    I still believe it's about cash not ability, I think anyone who rocks up with 50-100 million gets drive

  33. #1933
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I still believe it's about cash not ability, I think anyone who rocks up with 50-100 million gets drive
    There's nobody available with that sort of money and a Superlicence.

    Finishing a couple of places higher in the Constructors' Championship can be worth tens of millions of dollars. No team, not least one which has been around as long as Williams, and has the likes of Frank Williams, Patrick Head, Paddy Lowe and Rob Smedley as senior management is going to risk points for cash, surely? They need to invest in the strength of their driver pairing, to show that they can provide the basis for growth in the underlying strength of the Williams Group of Companies. They are, after all, quoted on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, and while chasing a quick profit may look good in the short term, it doesn't underpin medium or long-term growth.

    Force India finished above Williams in the last two years, and were the best non-works Mercedes team. They don't have their own wind tunnel, and any work which can be sub-contracted is farmed out. For a team like Williams, with the facilities at their disposal, to be beaten by a team as under-resourced as Force India is inexcusable. And next year the pressure at the front of the midfield will increase if Renault and McLaren manage to get their respective acts together.

    Felipe Massa provided largely consistent performances and results for the team, yet they still only managed fifth in the Constructors' Championship. What Massa gave to Williams (and Ferrari) was consistent baseline performance - he could deliver what the car was capable of. His long-term relationship with Rob Smedley meant that the car could be optimised for Massa's driving style, and he would drive it to that limit. At Ferrari the difference between Massa and Alonso was Alonso's innate ability to wring the last couple of tenths of a second or so from a car which wasn't capable of giving it. The difference between Massa and Bottas was that sometimes Bottas could outperform the car, and sometimes he couldn't. The difference between Massa and Stroll was largely that of experience with the car and the Pirelli tyres.

    What Williams need, above anything else, is two drivers scoring regular points.

  34. #1934
    Deciding against Kubica based upon his complete lack of experience with current generation cars is understandable though Sirotkin isn't exactly flushed with seat-time either, I think he had a couple of Friday sessions this season with maybe one or two last year and that's about it. Prior to working with Renault he was a development driver with Sauber and it's thought that he didn't progress to the status of race driver due to lack of funds, something that Sauber is heavily reliant upon.

    Perhaps his financial situation has changed and/or Williams really did see something in the Abu Dhabi test session stats that genuinely favoured the Russian. You've also got to wonder though why, if the lack of Kubica's experience was the deciding factor, Williams have chosen an inexperienced Sirotkin when they could have chosen Kvyat. OK, the elder Russian didn't exactly set the world alight with the Red Bull teams, though he's more of a known quantity that his countryman and has working knowledge of the tyres and powerplants.

    Phillipe Massa has said that he thinks that Williams are taking the financial option for 2018 and Renault have said that Sirotkin is worthy of a race seat, though that doesn't explain why they employed the services of Sainz Jnr part way through the 2017 season instead of him. As has been said, the Grove based teamed are in desperate need of points next season especially seeing as both Renault and McLaren could both be on the upsurge, Stroll's second season with the team should be better than his first(!) though he's no team leader and neither is Sirotkin, hopefully their own leaders - Williams, Lowe, Smedley and co - have a longer term plan that first appears.
    Last edited by CardShark; 17th December 2017 at 14:59.

  35. #1935
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    Meanwhile Ferrari has stated the imo obvious; that they could start their own championship in competition with F1.

    Probably just politics in the shake up with Liberty but as I observed earlier in this thred they do have a point.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  36. #1936
    It's Ron Dennis's leaving party tonight. He's invited everyone he's ever worked with at McLaren, presumably including his former friend and ally Mansour Ojjeh.

    The event is taking place at the Royal Albert Hall, which Ron has hired for the occasion, and entertainment will be provided by the Cirque du Soleil.

    Sounds nice.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  37. #1937
    What a bunch of clowns!

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