No. A pit stop is a pit stop, they have to change the tyres and possibly more, they don't need more time from LH. He, on the other hand, wants to stop only once, rather than just behind his team mate for a second or two before moving forward when pit is available.Originally Posted by jaytip
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In which case, my apologies
This is exactly as I saw it, I can't remember if it was DC or the chap that commentates with him on C4 however one of them also felt the penalty unfair.
What say you, Backward Point?
The time to complete the pit-stop rather than more time my be a more accurate way of phrasing it, though I understood what JT was getting at.
JT - correct me if I'm wrong!
Edit to add - had a bit of a rethink on this.
It's understandable that LH would want to drive straight into the box rather than stop for VB and then move forward - so far, so good. However is it fair that he should hold up another driver so that he can make things easier for himself, even if that hold up was unintentional? Not really, so I suppose the penalty is justified.
Last edited by CardShark; 17th April 2017 at 22:24.
What I was trying to say is that nothing LH could do would have changed anything to VB's pit stop time. However by deliberately slowing down DR he was giving himself a chance to leave the stands ahead of him, whereas by having to stop behind VB was giving DR (and VB) a significant advantage. It was a calculated risk I would think, and Coulthard's comment about not being worth a penalty was wishful thinking since they mentioned the possibility of one before the stewards announced the enquiry.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I agree - Lewis tried it as a tactic (read calculated risk) and he suffered from it - had he not............
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Deliberate or otherwise, the stewards decided that he did hold up DR. Their reason for imposing the penalty: "Car 44 drove unnecessarily slowly and erratically in the pit entry, reducing his speed to 57 km/h before increasing to 75 km/h as he entered the pit lane, holding up car 3". I find it difficult to believe that LH didn't know what he was doing.
Yup, I get that now, and have changed my take on the situation
There's still a bit of a grey area though regarding what constitutes driving unnecessarily slowly, there have been plenty of occasions whereby drivers have backed their competitors up on the circuit into the lair of other drivers, however in this particular instance the penalty is a fair one.
He knew, not contested either.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I completely agree with the grey area. The only advantage -if indeed it is one- is that it allows stewards or the race director to appreciate the situation rather than dish out penalties indiscriminately. But that also means possible inconsistencies.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The way I see it is that it's easier to nail LH on the speed infringement than it is to suggest that LH was intentionally holding DR up, LH could have argued that all he was doing was making his own pit-stop easier. The Stewards knew what he was really doing and used the unnecessary/erratic speed ruling as a cover to dish out the punishment, if DR wasn't behind him then I doubt LH would have been pulled up on going from 57kph to 75kph.
Intentional or otherwise and regardless as to the reason why LH drove the way he did DR was unfairly slowed.
Last edited by CardShark; 17th April 2017 at 23:44.
Just when Force India's prospects for the season were on the up:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39627135
As far as I'm aware, the co-owner of the team, Roy Sahara, has been imprisoned in India for some time. The Indian authorities have been trying to have Mallya extradited to face charges of fraud for several months.
Just saw this on Facebook. Made me chuckle.
https://motorsport.clickon.co/2017/0...whatsapp-chat/
Lol
The Met Office site now has a page for Events forecasts, that includes a forecast for the Russian Grand Prix 2017.
Power unit element usage so far:
https://www.pitpass.com/58904/Russia...-Unit-elements
A bit more background info for the weekend. Don't expect this every race!
^^^^^
See also:
- Pirelli Press Releases
- FIA Sochi page ...& the similar pages for other events in the calendar
An interesting day, with Ferrari faster than Mercedes on what is regarded as a "power" circuit.
Every driver seemed to have difficulty staying on the circuit, due to a lack of grip - the circuit was very dusty, and the new Pirellis seem to have no tolerance of slip angle, and once beyond the critical point they just let go. Perhaps the circuit will "rubber in" and there will be more grip available for tomorrow's qualifying session.
Ferrari's advantage may come from generating more downforce, particularly from the floor, which might explain why they can follow other cars better than Mercedes. Their advantage does seem to be significant, unless Mercedes were running high fuel levels, although Crofty and Martin Brundle on Sky didn't think so.
Long runs (20 laps or so) were possible on Ultrasofts, so it looks as though the race will be a one-stopper for everybody. Qualifying will therefore be of even greater importance than usual.
Ferrari have changed the turbocharger on both cars, so both drivers are on their third unit (out of four) for the season, but they maintain that these are planned changes and the two units used previously are perfectly serviceable and will be used again.
I remain sceptical about some of the technical/mechanical component restrictions TBH.
Does this really make for closer or more competitive racing?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
So are McLaren getting a Mercedes engine next year or is it just more speculating by Eddie Jordan?
Toto seemed to suggest it's not happening when he spoke to Eddie and Steve.
They are. And Honda supplies Sauber.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
So what about Mercedes team orders?
With Bottas in a for him new car out qualifying Hamilton two times out of three it seems a bit of a premature conclusion that Hamilton should get the right of everything.
With Hamilton starting on the dirty side Botas might very well get the upper hand at the start, perhaps even op to second. Hamilton will need to be definitely quicker on track for team orders this time out. Let's hope that the myriad of unexpected variables will decide.
Go on then... I''ll bite.
Nothing in the Mercedes 'team orders' assumes Hamilton will get any preferential treatment.
Lauda added that the new policy would apply no matter which Mercedes driver was in front.
What Lauda said means very little.
The issue was raised so Bottas would not 'rob' points in line of was executed last time out.
We will see how it pans out. Very often racing offers so many surprises that team orders are not relevant.
Bottom line is that for racing fans Bottas looks to be a great replacement.
Putting in a fast qualifying time is one thing, but Lewis had shown he has more race pace than Bottas in the first few races.
only just managed to watch qualifying, and had to skip all the preamble
interesting to see on the thread that it seems EJ has 'predicted' the Mclaren /Mercedes deal....
love him or hate him he seems to 'guess' what's going on more often than not
I'll look forward to seeing the race tomorrow & what EJ has to say when I finish work tomorrow afternoon
Vettel to win.....
Trolling, trolling, trolling, keep'em doggies trolling - rawhide
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I certainly hope so, but Toto wouldn't confirm it yesterday.
What baffles me more is why the hell Sauber would want a Honda engine after seeing the problems with it.
Because, Mclaren have done all of the donkey work, because with two teams using the engine Honda will get a lot more feedback. And very soon (next six months) the engine will perform properly (I hope).
Sauber have $100,000,000 reasons to take a Honda deal, and it makes sense for Honda as well, because the weight of expectation reduces.
But if McLaren have Mercedes power then they'll need to produce a much better car. Telling everybody that your car is the quickest in the corners is different to proving it, and their 2017 offering turned up at pre-season testing looking, according to seasoned trackside observers, like a bit of a handful.
Ferrari surprised everybody on a track where Mercedes have led every racing lap since the first race on this circuit. The Mercedes drivers needed an out lap and another slightly faster lap to get the tyres in the zone for a qualifying lap, and then they were running out of grip in the last sector. A challenging afternoon lies ahead, it would appear, and one in which for the first time in the hybrid era they don't have the luxury of dictating the race.
Who will be the two teams using the engine if McLaren go back to Mercedes Power?
I really don't see Honda sorting this anytime soon. They are showing neither pace or reliability.
Sauber have confirmed that they will be using Honda engines in 2018.
As, apparently, will McLaren.
Also on the equipment front, Haas appeared to have succumbed to Romain Grosjean's continued struggles with Brembo brakes, and they tested the alternative Carbon Industrie brake discs and pads at the post-race test in Bahrain, and started using them in Sochi. Only to switch back to Brembo for the race.
The issue now, particularly for Grosjean, who has so far spent 2017 wreathed in tyre smoke caused by his own locking front wheels, is that he has no confidence in the car's behaviour under braking. And there are several big stops at Sochi.
Stoffel VanDoorne will be starting from the car park and will probably have to queue to get in as he has a 15-place grid penalty and the distinction of being the first driver in 2017 to run out of part of his allocation of power unit elements. In his case it's the MGU-H, which generates electricity from the turbocharger (it's attached to the spindle which is spun by the exhaust gases), which on the Honda seems to suffer from breaking up and being ingested by the engine.
Even I'm feeling sorry for Alonso now.
Yep. What a bummer.
Really happy for Valtteri but christ, that was one of the most boring races I've ever seen.
+1 very dull, and then Jordan comes out saying what an amazing race - liar! Good for Valteri though
Really terrible race. I don't think there was one overtake at all??
It would've been the worst race I've ever seen had there not been a (false) battle for the lead at the end.
This track needs to be dropped as soon as possible. 3 out of 4 of the races there have been dire and it's just a vulgar propaganda exercise for Putin.
I'm really pleased for Botas though, fully deserved victory and he's given Mercedes and Lewis something to think about. Lewis had an awful weekend, he's got to cut out these blips in form if he wants to have a shot at the title.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 30th April 2017 at 15:35.
Apparently, there were 18 overtakes, but like you I can't actually remember seeing any of them.
I agree that the track is awful, but who's going to tell Putin?
Mercedes do indeed have a problem. Can you imagine Toto getting on the radio and saying "Lewis, Valtteri is faster than you"?
Mclaren will not go to Mercedes, they cannot afford to.
I suspect he is already fully aware. I don't think it was the traffic that delayed his arrival until the race was nearly over.
Counting the start and pit stop ´overtakes´.
Probably. I enjoyed Vettel hunting down Bottas over the last few laps - Bottas had already made a mistake and locked up, giving himself a big flat spot on one front tyre and very bad vibration, but he didn't succumb to a determined Vettel, and thoroughly deserved his victory.
Despite the lack of (televised) overtaking I really enjoyed that! OK, so there was little proper action, though the Kimi/Seb/Valtteri strategy battle was enjoyable and the final few laps were, for me at least, edge of the seat stuff. Congrats to VB, a deserved win, and whilst I'm sure that Mercedes will be pleased with his performance and the total manufacturers points haul there is the potential headache for them later in the season if one driver is seen to be stealing points from the other. LH said that he knew where to lay the blame for his lack of speed yet didn't mention any more, at least from what I saw. He needs to win at Barcelona, where Ferrari were particularly strong in testing... If Lewis wins the DC then it could be the hardest that he's ever fought for it, after these last 4 races I'm erring on the side of Seb instead.
The worst part of the weekend for me was the obvious Putin PR exercise prior to the podium
Kudos to Bottas - great to see a well deserved win.
So much for the Mercedes conspiracy theorists....
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Pleased for Bottas too, but as others have said, that was a terrible advert for racing.
Poor Valtteri Bottas. He must have dreamed of this day, his first Grand Prix victory, and the first thing to happen is the Putin publicity stunt in the post-race room of awkwardness, followed by having to be interviewed on the podium by Eddie Jordan.
The worst part of the weekend for me was the obvious Putin PR exercise prior to the podium
WTF was Jordan on - including the 'come on lets sit down' moment.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
No idea, Chris. I've developed the superpower of being able to mentally switch off whenever he appears on tv.
Maybe I need to learn your fu.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
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