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Thread: Formula 1 2017

  1. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    He could just as easily said SV might have seen him, it's the same thing
    Indeed, though the key word in your interpretation is "might".

    Bottom line is that it was a racing incident. Sure, if Seb hadn't try to squeeze Max the incident may not have happened, though that's the same as saying if Max had braked it would also have been avoided. What Seb did was try to protect his position by moving once across the circuit, a move that may seem to be quite hard however he's fully entitled to do so. He hasn't been let off the hook because he was never on it, Ferrari driver or otherwise.

  2. #1352
    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    . What Seb did was try to protect his position by moving once across the circuit, a move that may seem to be quite hard however he's fully entitled to do so. He hasn't been let off the hook because he was never on it, Ferrari driver or otherwise.
    I'm happy to call it a racing incident (not that anyone cares want I think) my issue is that they are all racing incidents, the officials should treat all the other comings together in exactly the same way. their judgements are inconsistent as are the penalties.

    I do believe if it had been any other another team a penalty would have been dished out to SV.

  3. #1353
    A racing incident is something that happens as a result of circumstances that can't be attributed to any individual's poor standard of driving and/or failing to comply to regulation. If Seb had moved to one side and then the other then that would have contravened regulation (weaving) and he may have been penalised, likewise if he'd turned into Max when the RB driver was part way alongside (dangerous driving). As it was he did neither, he just took a preemptive defense line leading up to the corner.

  4. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I'm happy to call it a racing incident (not that anyone cares want I think) my issue is that they are all racing incidents, the officials should treat all the other comings together in exactly the same way. their judgements are inconsistent as are the penalties.

    I do believe if it had been any other another team a penalty would have been dished out to SV.
    There has always been more leeway given by the stewards for incidents like this at the start, it's about the only time you will get 3 cars overlapping and with major
    speed differences, I am sure SV had no idea KR was up the inside of MV who then couldnt move as SV came across, you will see this move by someone at most starts
    with someone squeezing a competitor. Dont think it deserved a penalty but I do think SV for his own good should have been much more cautious in those conditions.

  5. #1355
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on Aston Martin Red Bull Racing?

  6. #1356
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    First thoughts are that they may have to look at reducing the font size on some of the corporate branding.

  7. #1357
    I see this as desperation on Red Bull's side, why would you pick a partner who is loosing fortunes and just cant make money.

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I see this as desperation on Red Bull's side, why would you pick a partner who is loosing fortunes and just cant make money.
    They did that last year...link...this latest announcement is surely more to do with marketing / cosmetics?

  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I see this as desperation on Red Bull's side, why would you pick a partner who is loosing fortunes and just cant make money.
    It's not really a partner, it's a sponsor. I don't think A-M have any technology that they can bring to F1, unlike Petronas with Mercedes.

    And right now all F1 teams need money - if that means they have Aston Martin on the side of the car and they get paid £20-30m per annum for the privilege, no problems. You'll get some great videos of Danny Ric hooning around in a DB11, a bit more glamour for the Aston Martin corporate events, but technology transfer? Can't see it.

  10. #1360
    I think that we have a combination of speculation as to what the 2021 engine regulations might bring forth, and a slow news day in the bubble that is Formula 1. Red Bull have had to increase their investment in the team, because the Constructors' Championship money has reduced in the last couple of years, and it would be nice to have a major sponsor to share the burden. There is also the underlying rumour that Porsche or the VW Group could purchase the team, with Red Bull continuing as a sponsor.

    Aston Martin don't have the budget or resources to develop a Formula 1 power unit, although there is the possibility of badging the much-discussed Cosworth. Aston Martin and Red Bull are known to be collaborating on road car based projects, and indeed Aston Martin (led by David Richards, a man with unfulfilled ambitions in Formula 1, don't forget) are building a research and development facility alongside the Red Bull Racing facility in Milton Keynes.

    And then there is the Honda connection. If Honda come good next year with Toro Rosso, Red Bull won't have any need for an Aston Martin/Cosworth power unit in 2021, and nobody is going to develop a new power unit for the current regulations. Nobody has any idea of what is in the pipeline for 2021 onwards, because there have not yet been any discussions between the teams, the FIA and Formula 1 Group, but there is every indication that the four current power unit suppliers will continue. FOG/the FIA are believed to be quite keen to have an independent power unit supplier on board, to increase the options, particularly for the smaller teams, and avoid the situation where a customer team is unlikely to be able to beat the "works" cars.

  11. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I see this as desperation on Red Bull's side, why would you pick a partner who is loosing fortunes and just cant make money.
    Where did you get that from?

    Motor Sport magazine quote:

    In the 12 months up to the end of December 2015, the independently-owned Aston Martin company returned a positive operating profit of £16m. Up until the recent introduction of its DB11, sales had stagnated to around 1,500-1,600 cars per annum. The new model has given a significant increase, with more than 1,600 sold in the most recently reported quarter.

  12. #1362
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Where did you get that from?

    Motor Sport magazine quote:

    In the 12 months up to the end of December 2015, the independently-owned Aston Martin company returned a positive operating profit of £16m. Up until the recent introduction of its DB11, sales had stagnated to around 1,500-1,600 cars per annum. The new model has given a significant increase, with more than 1,600 sold in the most recently reported quarter.
    FT, Fortune, Birmingham Mail, all over Google, but unfortunately google seems to be stopping me linking them here

  13. #1363
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    Look on the Companies House beta website - they lost £147m to the end of 2016.

  14. #1364
    Quote Originally Posted by Longblackcoat View Post
    Look on the Companies House beta website - they lost £147m to the end of 2016.
    Is that taken from the Aston Martin Lagonda accounts? There's a huge value in "Intangible Assets" underpinning those results. Is there an accountant in the house?

    Anyway. Malaysia this weekend.

  15. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Is that taken from the Aston Martin Lagonda accounts? There's a huge value in "Intangible Assets" underpinning those results. Is there an accountant in the house?

    Anyway. Malaysia this weekend.
    (a). Incorrect, these results are from Aston Martin Holdings (UK) Limited, their main trader

    (b). I’m looking at their P&L not their balance sheet, which is where you’ll see Intangibles

    Presumably you’re an accountant, so tell me what’s wrong with my numbers?

  16. #1366
    I'm not going to turn the Formula 1 thread into a tedious forensic analysis of Aston Martin's accounts, given that for now they are merely a sponsor of one of the participants.

    A P&L is merely a snapshot of a year's activity, and can be skewed by one-off events. The Balance Sheet reflects the underlying strength (or otherwise) of a Company.

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    I'm not going to turn the Formula 1 thread into a tedious forensic analysis of Aston Martin's accounts, given that for now they are merely a sponsor of one of the participants.

    A P&L is merely a snapshot of a year's activity, and can be skewed by one-off events. The Balance Sheet reflects the underlying strength (or otherwise) of a Company.
    So tell me when they last made a profit? A real one, that is, not one dressed up with one-offs or exceptional charges.

    Clue: You’ll be looking for a very long time

  18. #1368
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Aston Martin and Red Bull are known to be collaborating on road car based projects, and indeed Aston Martin (led by David Richards, a man with unfulfilled ambitions in Formula 1, don't forget) are building a research and development facility alongside the Red Bull Racing facility in Milton Keynes.
    The Newey designed Aston Martin Valkyrie is a bit of an eye catcher!

    It's Andy Palmer rather than David Richards that provides the link between AM and RB, he was the CEO of Infiniti when they were title sponser of RB in their winning years and he's now the CEO of AM. David Richards used to be Aston's chairman however he's more well known for being the founder of Prodrive who build and run, amongst others, Aston GT cars, as well as his previous roles with BAR and, I think, Benetton.

    Interesting time for AM to buddy up with RB. It's looking like RB could be Honda powered after next season, and if they don't pull their finger out AM could wonder why it bothered. I would imagine that the deal was already signed before the Honda hoo-ha came to its climax, though.

  19. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    Interesting time for AM to buddy up with RB. It's looking like RB could be Honda powered after next season, and if they don't pull their finger out AM could wonder why it bothered. I would imagine that the deal was already signed before the Honda hoo-ha came to its climax, though.
    I saw an interview with Horner at the last GP, I'm guessing but I think it was recorded before the Honda announcement, he said RB will be making an announcement and it had nothing to do with Porsche.

  20. #1370
    Quote Originally Posted by Longblackcoat View Post
    So tell me when they last made a profit? A real one, that is, not one dressed up with one-offs or exceptional charges.

    Clue: You’ll be looking for a very long time

    The history of Aston Martin is punctuated with stories of losses, from their reluctance to provide the car for James Bond in the 1960's because it would lead to increased sales at a time when they were losing money on every car that left the production line to Victor Gauntlett (chairman during the 1970's) when trying to placate an irate and dissatisfied customer who was demanding that Aston should sell him a new car at cost price said that he would be only too delighted to do so, as he was taking a hit on every car that they sold.

    It's a miracle that they're still with us.

    Anyway, back to the boring stuff, and this may be the final race at the unique Malaysian circuit, which is expected to favour Mercedes who, along with Ferrari are expected to introduce their final engine upgrades for the season.

    Tyre choices:



    Rain, possibly of the heavy variety, is often a feature of the weekend. I'm missing the Friday sessions as I'll be watching some cricket.

  21. #1371
    I've just spotted this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41397848

    Interesting. Unless you're Daniil Kvyat.

  22. #1372
    Has a driver ever risen so fast to fall so quickly again as Daniil? He seemed to be the chosen one for RBR then he's been shunted to TR and he's not exactly been impressive. And now replaced for a GP.

    Let's see what Gasly can do vs Sainz Jr given he's looked handy in lower formulae thus far.

  23. #1373
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff W View Post
    Has a driver ever risen so fast to fall so quickly again as Daniil? He seemed to be the chosen one for RBR then he's been shunted to TR and he's not exactly been impressive. And now replaced for a GP.

    Let's see what Gasly can do vs Sainz Jr given he's looked handy in lower formulae thus far.
    The BBC article can't seem to make up its mind if it's just Malaysia or other races as well. Elsewhere it has been reported that Gasly will be in the car for Malaysia and the following race in Japan, with the Russian getting his seat back in Texas as this clashes with the season ending Super Formula Series race that Gasly currently competes in. He's a good contender to win that championship and those SF cars are of a similar pace, if not faster, than GP2s.

    Seeing as Kvyat has only scored 4 of TR's 52 points, Williams are currently only 7 points ahead with Renault 10 behind, if Gasly shows great point scoring potential the USA could well be the Russian's last race, IMO. Sixth to fifth in the Constructors Championship will bring extra $ to help with their transition period with Honda.

  24. #1374
    US GP also happens to coincide to the time at which some of the points on Kvyat's super license expire and remove any jeopardy of suspension. Purely a coincidence i'm sure...

  25. #1375
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Rain, possibly of the heavy variety, is often a feature of the weekend.
    Not necessarily confined to Malaysia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    I'm missing the Friday sessions as I'll be watching some cricket.

  26. #1376
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    Met Office forecast for Sepang International Circuit...link.

    For reference, the local timings for F1 are:


    FP 1
    Fri
    11:00 – 12:30
    FP 2
    Fri
    15:00 – 16:30
    FP 3
    Sat
    14:00 – 15:00
    Qual
    Sat
    17:00 – 18:00
    Race
    Sun
    15:00 – 17:00


    There may be a few delays...

  27. #1377
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    The weather will hopefully make the race rather interesting.

  28. #1378
    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    Not necessarily confined to Malaysia.




    I know, I know. The recent forecast is a bit less wet, though, so I'm choosing to go with that one!

  29. #1379
    In other news, Haas have again upgraded their brakes. This will either mean:

    A/ Romain Grosjean will spend less time complaining about his brakes.

    or:

    B/ Romain Grosjean will spend more time complaining about his brakes.

    Also on Development Corner, Ferrari have turned up with an enlarged air intake above the driver's head, inferring that they will be running the updated power unit and the layout has changed, necessitating different cooling arrangements, Mercedes have updated their barge boards and deflectors around the leading edge of the sidepods, and Renault have introduced what is possibly the most complex front wing ever seen in Formula 1:


  30. #1380
    Six planes on that front wing. Six! I think that it's bordering on a work of art, I love the little details that CFD data crunching generates.

    Force India's "stegosaurus" fin in Singapore was another demonstration of what can be done to improve airflow dynamics, in this case it was to help encourage vortices (vorti?) in order to increase the effectiveness of the T wing at the rear of the fin.

    There's a video here -

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...urus-explained

  31. #1381
    Interesting link, thanks for that. Force India continue to impress, as they're basically outsourcing many of their major functions, including aero. They use the former Toyota wind tunnel in Cologne, which has also been used by Ferrari and McLaren while their own tunnels were out of service. Developing something like the fin arrangement is the result of some pretty intensive (and expensive) CFD and windtunnel work.

    More from Malaysia:

    Ferrari airbox:



    And slim rear end:



    Mercedes barge boards:


  32. #1382
    Craftsman RS404's Avatar
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    [/QUOTE]

    Who is number 46? Will Valentino Rossi be making a guest appearance?

  33. #1383
    Quote Originally Posted by RS404 View Post

    Who is number 46? Will Valentino Rossi be making a guest appearance?
    That's Renault's reserve driver Sergey Sirotkin's number, he's getting a run out during FP1. It will be his 4th appearance this season and he'll be taking Hulkenberg's seat, the German has stepped aside for 3 of those 4 occasions.

    Interesting development of Ferrari's airbox intake. If it really is a net gain in intake surface area along with any power plant revisions then the benefits must be outweighing the increase in drag / disturbed airflow that the larger aperture/s create.
    Last edited by CardShark; 28th September 2017 at 23:02.

  34. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Reminds me of this:

  35. #1385
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    Formula 1 2017

    Massive shunt for Grosjean due to a raised cover on the track.
    Be interesting to see if the FIA penalise the team if any engine/gearbox parts need replacing due to this.
    They shouldn't be, but Formula 1 is a law unto itself.

  36. #1386
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    That front wing must produce so much downforce that I can't believe it doesn't flex a lot at high speed and introduce some kind of varying effects. Looks fugly too....

  37. #1387
    Quote Originally Posted by Culminator View Post
    That front wing must produce so much downforce that I can't believe it doesn't flex a lot at high speed and introduce some kind of varying effects. Looks fugly too....
    The work of all of those slats on the front wing is less about downforce and more about shaping the airflow around the rest of the car.

  38. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Massive shunt for Grosjean due to a raised cover on the track.
    Be interesting to see if the FIA penalise the team if any engine/gearbox parts need replacing due to this.
    They shouldn't be, but Formula 1 is a law unto itself.
    This could have been much worse. I bet someone is getting a jolly good taking to as we speak.

    Instead of halo systems, perhaps they need to sort track issues like this out.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  39. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Massive shunt for Grosjean due to a raised cover on the track.
    Be interesting to see if the FIA penalise the team if any engine/gearbox parts need replacing due to this.
    They shouldn't be, but Formula 1 is a law unto itself.

    BBC: Haas given special dispensation for Grosjean repairs.

  40. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Let's hope it extends to no grid penalties should things like a gearbox need replacing.

  41. #1391
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    The good news is that Haas will not be penalised for having to rebuild its car following yesterday's accident.

    Less good news is that Max is either having a bit of a melt down or he deliberately slammed to door on Palmer during practice.

    Whatever surely this qualifies as causing an accident, punishable with a penalty, but who knows.

    I did love Max's first reaction, which was to blame Palmer, so he is awarded a Cockwomble award.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  42. #1392
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    Any update on the engine replacement for the finger wagger's car? Looks like it's going to be tight on time to get it finished for qualifying.

  43. #1393
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    Forget that, just seen he's made it for Q1

  44. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Culminator View Post
    Forget that, just seen he's made it for Q1
    And then...

  45. #1395
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    Going from bad to worse for Vettel.

  46. #1396
    Could be a result for Vettel, if he has to start at the back and takes all of his penalties

  47. #1397
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    Hell of a turnaround for Mercedes. They were looking shocking all weekend and then Lewis pulls that pole lap out.
    Like him or loathe him, you can't deny his talent. He was way ahead of his team mate in quali.

  48. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Could be a result for Vettel, if he has to start at the back and takes all of his penalties
    I was under the impression that you can't stockpile penalties anymore?

  49. #1399
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    Listened to Suzi Wolf talking in normal Scottish accent.

    Then an interview with Toto Wolf.............

    Then back to Suzi, who appeared to be speaking in a clipped German accent !

    It seemed to fade back to normal within 30 secs.

    Strange. ( I know they are married)

    Al

  50. #1400
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I was under the impression that you can't stockpile penalties anymore?
    No, but Vettel could fit a new turbo, PU and gearbox if he wanted and lose no further positions. What he can’t do is take three PUs, for example

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