Reply With QuoteAs I recall they've been around longer than a year: link.Originally Posted by reggie747
And the season before that too but the first iteration had the watch 'on the wrist' so it was less visible, last year they printed them further down the glove so to give it increased visibility.
Looks like a year of Hamilton if FP 1&2 are anything to go by. Bottas looked like he'll be fighting red bull and Ferrari for second place. Long run pace of Lewis looked fantastic too, doing 1.27's vs Vettels approx 1.28/9
As I recall they've been around longer than a year: link.
If this is anything to go by, that is already season over for me.
LH has certainly dominated FP1 and FP2 though his fastest time is only 2 tenths faster than his pole quali time set in 2016, and that would have been with a full tank of fuel. I didn't expect the nature of the Albert Park circuit to fully show of the increased capabilities of the new cars though I did expect a greater difference than that, though I haven't taken into account the tyres or weather conditions between sessions/years.
According to Pitpass, Mercedes were the only team to use the Ultrasoft tyres, so they were probably doing a Qualifying simulation - if so, they also have a Qualifying engine map as well.
So they (probably) had the heaviest fuel load, stickiest tyres and the map turned up for maximum 1 lap pace, and LH was still only 2 tenths faster than last years pole which would have also been set with the car at its heaviest? Like I said, I did expect faster times this season than last, but by a larger margin than that. Fastest race lap times last year were approx 5 sec slower than the pole time, I can't remember however I'd guess that the weather played its part then.
Or am I missing something? Had a heavy night last night!
Last edited by CardShark; 24th March 2017 at 13:12.
Qualifying is run on the lightest possible fuel load, but you're correct, in the context of the revisions to this year's cars the times don't seem right.
Although, as I said earlier, Melbourne isn't particularly grippy until the race is under way. More sandbagging, perhaps?
The track is still green though, and will speed up before qualifying?
I thought the cars had to be fully fueled for Q3? That being the case, surely simulated runs going for the ultimate fastest lap when trying to qualify on pole would also be fully fueled else they're not a proper simulation, unless they're only looking for the best Q1 and Q2 times? Fair point on the track being green, and looking back at the FP1/2/3 times last year it's obvious that weather slowed them down which would have, in turn, kept the track greener than it otherwise would be.
Last edited by CardShark; 24th March 2017 at 13:52.
Qualifying on race fuel was thankfully abandoned some time ago, certainly before the engine regs changed in 2014.
The Top 10 have to start the race on the tyres that they set their fastest times on in Q2, hence the top teams try to get into the Top 10 using the middle of the three compounds, so they don't have to start the race fully fuelled on Ultrasofts.
Incidentally, Pirelli are allocating the tyres for the first five races this year, so the drivers can't choose their own sets.
A couple of Mercedes-related tech snippets:
The regulations have changed in respect of the clutch actuation levers, and drivers can now only have a single actuating lever of specified length, operational throw and location. Mercedes in particular have struggled with their starts over the last couple of years, so expect to see Messrs Hamilton and Bottas doing lots of practice starts over the Free Practice sessions.
And, it would appear, Mercedes are concerned about crankshaft stress (and component life). Each driver only has four of each engine "component" this year, as there are only 20 races. Last year there were 21 races, and they had five "components".
The above apply equally to the works Mercedes team and the other Mercedes powered teams.
Looking at the lap statistics a bit closer, it becomes even more worrying.
The only one who seems to be with sight on Hamilton is not a Ferrari nor RedBull but the other Mercedes.
Ok, Verstappen did not score anything representative but even if he is at the level of his team mate, that will only make the 'battle' for 3rd more crowded.
So; preliminary conclusion:
Faster.
Less overtaking.
Nothing changed in the pecking order.
Fingers crossed that the race will prove to be vastly different.
Final practice underway as I type this, and a final update on the F1 fantasy league grid. A couple more teams managed to register before the pit lane closed (welcome Max Peddalers and KIPPAX!) so the 2017 starting grid is now:
Best of luck and enjoy the race and season
Was already up a few hours so watching it unfold.
And Q2: McLaren out. Unsurprisingly. VanDoorne did not make Q2 even. Still, 13th for Alonso is way better than the pre-season predicted.
Sofar Bottas looking very good. Really very good.
Looking even better now: Pluvius has decided to spice things up a bit.
Nope, sunny again, after Riccicardo looses it. To tack of this lot mate. Sorry to see that :-(
...annnnnnd... Hamilton almost 3tenth in front of Vettel who has Bottas right on his heels.
Yep:
- faster
- trickier; these cars bite when downforce is lost
- same pecking order
We need a lot of water tomorrow.
Hamilton P1, Vettel P2, Bottas P3, Raikkonen P4. Please please please let this year see an epic Hamilton vs Vettel and/or Mercedes vs Ferrari battle.
Amen to that....
Interesting race!
Quite enjoyed that, being in Australia helped ;)
It's just a matter of time...
Too tired to say much more than good on Ferrari, a shame for D Ric and didn't Lewis sound a little frustrated, both in the car and on the podium?
Things you thought you would never see:
Jock Clear looking emotional.
That was the dream result for Ferrari and for Formula 1. A tactical race for Vettel, who drove superbly, and we now know that this year's Mercedes struggles in traffic, although Ferrari seems to have the measure of the Silver Arrow anyway.
The tyres did what was asked of them, with the front runners managing 18 laps or so on used Ultrasofts with a full fuel load, which bodes well for the season ahead. Mercedes have the qualifying pace but Ferrari have the race pace.
This could be a good season.
Congratulations Ferrari !!!!!!
^^^ +1
nice job by the team.
Bottas was gaining ground hand over fist at the end as well until he suddenly decided to hold station.
Also in Australia for a couple of weeks and interesting to note how much coverage there was on Channel 10. Yesterday from 10 or 11am, and today's race coverage from 10am. That's quite a bit less than my usual hour or two back in the UK.
I guess he knows his place although I'd love if he could beat Hamilton. I am not a lover of Hamilton and admit to grinning when the crowd booed him on the podium.
Hamilton is a decisive character but apart from Austria last year (when the on site commentator had blamed him for the clash with Nico) I can't recall him being booed so obviously on the podium before. It could just be a boo the "whinging pom" thing but I wonder if it also had anything to do with his tactics in last year's title decider?
The media here (who are not generally afraid to criticise Hamilton) were unanimously supportive of those tactics but maybe the view was different elsewhere?
In the car OF COURSE!! and afterwards he was imo very ok about it.
Only the first race, not a very representative track, Vettel should have won last year too and see how that panned out.
Good to see a Ferrari on the top but this is an a-typical track.
I am disappointed with the power of the Renault engines.
Anyway; not a classic race but refreshing nevertheless.
Decent enough race. Looking forward to a more competitive season.
Surprised at the booing for the Ham.
Top Rolex product placement by Webber on the podium - what a pro?
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
This is the first race I've watched in Ultra HD and I have to say it looked amazing.
Agreed to all of that.
Was it a DSSD? I guess that he doesn't have to wear Chopard anymore since retiring from Porsche.
In his book he mentioned how Jackie Stewart taught him to get his suit tailored with the left arm shorter to help show off his watch better!
There were lots of blank/black frames during the Ch4 highlights with the odd glitchy frame. Did you see those or is it something to do with Channel 4?
duplicate post
The whole race was a bit boring to me and even though the cars were lapping faster they didn't seem faster on screen!
They still need a bit more wheel to wheel racing imo
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No glitches on the 4K broadcast. I did record it and watch it when I woke up. The only thing I noticed was fast forwarding on the Sky Q at 30x is more glitchy than at HD ( I did this to skip most of the pre-race).
I second this.
For as long as anybody can remember, Grand Prix races have been started with the fastest cars at the front. Unless, therefore, there are cars starting out of position, you're not going to get much "wheel to wheel action". You might enjoy watching the BTCC, which nowadays resembles a destruction derby, if that's what you want.
Mark Hughes' report states that the major factor in Vettel's victory was that Mercedes were bounced into pitting Hamilton early because he'd taken too much out of his Ultrasoft tyres in the early stages in trying to distance himself from the Ferrari, and emerged behind Max Verstappen, who was similarly afflicted by tyre issues, but unable to get past. This allowed Ferrari to run Vettel for five laps in clear air, and a fast stop by the Ferrari crew brought Vettel out just ahead of Verstappen, who was still holding off Hamilton.
Mercedes have become accustomed to qualifying at the front and dictating the pace of the race. Now that Ferrari have a car which can at least match the Mercedes in race trim, they'll have to rely on strategy. And they're not used to that.
Re Mercedes strategy: I think they may have to rethink the single strategist for their team and look at having one for each driver. Certainly their current one seems to get it wrong in a pressure situation more than he gets it right.
I couldnt agree more gentlemen ,unfortunately the teams seem to be becoming increasingly dependent on strategy and less on the actual driver and car .
All very clever and technical but not really all that entertaining to watch .
Fond this website analysing the f1 broadcasts etc. Some interesting info you like that sort of thing
https://f1broadcasting.co
Kev
?????
Basically all racing is like that and just about all still have wheel to wheel racing. Seen Formula E or .... dare I write... MotoGP?
As to wheel to wheel in F1 it looks like wider plus ground effect has not creeated more of that.
I second others in that ´strategic racing´ is not my thing either.
Benefit of the doubt till after China.
Hopefully the new American administrators will also recognise this and make the appropriate changes to bring a bit more " car and driver " into the mix .
I cant honestly see any significant changes are going to happen overnight but we live in hope .
Personally i would love to see all F1 cars with a screaming 3 litre V12,with no restrictions on fuel and tyres ,if you want to waste time messing about changing tyres and fuelling thats up to you .
Start with a full fuel load or a lighter load ? thats about as much strategy as i want to see.
I doubt that refueling will ever make a comeback, more on the grounds of safety than anything else.
All this talk about the perceived lack of overtaking or wheel to wheel action - are there any stats demonstrating there was more of either back in the good ol' days than there is now, or at least before DRS was introduced? Without attempting to look it up I'd wager that there wasn't.
I don't understand why dynamic control surfaces aren't allowed, surely that would help the car in the dirty air behind more than the one in front with smooth flow. You could limit the processor power, or limit to the front and back wing only to keep costs under control.
One reason is that it would increase development costs exponentially, further increasing the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots". The FIA's rule which states that cars should not have any "moveable aerodynamic devices*" is there for this reason, and also for safety purposes. Constructors have constantly tried to push this particular envelope (flexible wings, active hydraulic heave springs etc) and the FIA keep having to develop the means to stop them. Now, with Liberty/FOM having Ross Brawn in a position of "poacher turned gamekeeper" they should be able to keep the creative interpretation of the rules under better control.
There seems to be some criticism of front wings for being too complex, with some even believing that a single element should be mandated. This misses the point that the front wing is the single most important aerodynamic element of the car, and not only produces downforce from the underside of the wing, but shapes the airflow around the sides of the car, thereby reducing drag from the tyres and energising the floor and diffuser. Front wings have become works of art in their own right. A single element front wing would reduce the downforce of a car following another and make overtaking impossible.
*Other than DRS, obviously.
DRS is just about THE best illustration of the problematic situation: Without an artificial ´aid´ there would be just about no overtaking possible yet the artificiality makes those overtaking moves a total anti climax.
Another weekend, another Grand Prix. China, with a very long straight, won't be among the tracks which McLaren are most looking forward to during the course of the season. I'll try to find speed trap figures from last year,* which will show whether or not the increased downforce (which means increased drag) has had much of an impact on straight line speed this year.
By way of a change there's controversy brewing over the finances of Formula 1, this time around the use of tax efficiencies achieved by using Scottish Limited Partnerships, best explained for anybody interested here: https://www.pitpass.com/58694/Shadow...ys-F1-takeover
In other news, it seems that Pascal Wehrlein has another note from his mum to excuse him from participation this weekend, although he claims that he will be fit and raring to go at the next race in Bahrain, which takes place next weekend. Hmmm...
More updates as and when.
* I failed dismally to find the 2016 top speeds on the FIA website, but the 2015 speeds are available here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...eed_trap_0.pdf
Last edited by Backward point; 5th April 2017 at 18:32.
If useful, GPGuide.com has some info on average (not max) speeds here.
If you type "china" into the main search page it should auto-fill with China Grand Prix and take you to the information. Click the "Race" tab to see all the times and average speeds. Fastest lap and max average speed on that lap is available, at the bottom of the page:
Fastest Lap: Hülkenberg, Nico - Time: 01:39.824 - Average Speed: 196.582km/h - Lap: 48
(apologies for the plug for the GPGuide site - the nice people from the FIA have been known to check with GPGuide for statistics verification)
HTH
Paul
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 6th April 2017 at 00:58.
Google came up with the goods:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/04/1...race-analysis/
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...OkrEmog8neiJ-A
Thanks to Paul and Gordon for supplying the answer. Top speed approaching the end of the straight in Shanghai is 335kph, so this weekend we will be able to get some idea of the effect of the additional aerodynamic drag imposed by this year's new regulations.
Antonio Giovinazzi replaces Wehrlein at Sauber again, and with more seat time this weekend, as Wehrlein won't be driving at all (he drove on Friday in Australia), and speculation continues as to the truth about his injury. It's all rather odd.
Shanghai isn't immune to rain, which will obviously upset the form book, but if the race is dry, we are told by various experts and Andrew Benson to expect Mercedes to return to form this weekend, but Ferrari now know that they're there or thereabouts.
The FIA has cleared Wehrlein to race, it's PW himself that's ruling out his return just yet sighting lack of full race fitness due to his previously sustained back injury. It's a bit of a gamble, Giovinazzi's stock rose in Australia and Ferrari must be pleased that their Italian test driver is getting some race mileage in this new breed of car, whereas you have to wonder what Mercedes' thoughts are on their protoge sitting on the sidelines. I'm not sure that Sauber would be too bothered who is in their car as long as they get decent results and that their sponsorship income isn't too dependent on PW being in the race seat.
Last edited by CardShark; 6th April 2017 at 13:56.
Next year, no Malaysia and back to France (link).
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