Formula 1 2017

[CardShark]

Did I hear that Vettel’s engine problem was a duff spark plug? If so, why didn’t they just change it when they had the engine cowl off or is it more complicated than that?

I'm only guessing here as I don't have any technical knowledge on this however I'd imagine, rather obviously, that it's far from the same as getting a 14mm plug socket out of your toolbox, disconnecting an HT lead, swapping out the plugs and reconnecting the lead.

Despite every component being made to a tight tolerance each like for like part will still be different, all be it on an incredibly small scale, and with these differences come different levels of performance - one spark plug may not perform in exactly the same way as another. Plugs may have to be matched with other plugs and then ECU programs and settings, even failing to locate the plug in exactly the same position, down to tolerances of less than a hair's width, may mean that the plug fowls the piston and/or simply doesn't ignite the fuel as effectively as the plug it replaced. This could result in engine failures due to component contact, incorrect fuel management causing a misfire, improper heat build-up resulting in component failure, loss of power and so on. I'd also guess that the plugs would be buried under a whole load of other gubbins as well - it would be a job for the pit garage, not for on the grid.

To extrapolate on that no complete powerplant performs in the same way. Once built engines and other power related components will be tested to ascertain their performance parameters, it may be for example that that one engine produces a few more horsepower than another with others providing more torque. These engines will then be matched to circuits, the higher horsepower units going to circuits with higher top speeds and the more torque abundant units going to circuit with heavy/multiple acceleration zones.


It's a real shame that Vettel retired; we were seemingly promised a real firecracker of a season finale and, as it stands, Lewis could win the DC at the next race in Texas.

[Longblackcoat]

It's possibly a little more complicated than "just a spark plug" - Ferrari have boosted their engine power despite the new oil-burning regulations. This means that the cylinder heads are running a fraction hotter (the old-spec oil-burners ran cooler anyway) which may well have a knock-on to things like spark plugs. It may well only be a matter of a few degrees difference, but when you're already on the knife-edge of reliability, that might be the thing that tips you over.

Note that Hamilton also had a spark plug(s?) changed in final practice, and I recall him having them changed at the Austrian GP during practice. These are obviously far more critical than we realised and more prone to breakage - the way it was presented yesterday was that this is completely unheard of and a totally freak occurrence, which appears not to be the case on closer examination. Accordingly, the Ferrari team really should have been on top of the situation; this is yet another team failure.

[adrianw]

The spark plugs on high boost engines don't have to be down much before the spark gets blown out. it wouldn't surprise me if they are changed every time the engine is run.

[MakeColdplayHistory]

So that's the F1 over for another year, i wonder how many more years it'll be before we see more than one team in it.

It's a shame that the Driver's Championship isn't going to run to the end of the season but I think the top three teams are now closer than Hamilton's lead suggests.
Imagine where we could be now if:

• Vettel hadn't bumped Lewis at the safety car restart
• either Seb or Kimi had given Max enough room at Singapore
• Vettel hadn't had engine problems in Malaysia FP3
• Vettel hadn't had spark plug problems yesterday (when did you last hear of an F1 car having spark plug problems?)

I'm not saying Lewis wouldn't be ahead (or wouldn't deserve to be) but he's ended up with a very easy run at it through some slightly odd circumstances in the second half of the season.

[Longblackcoat]

It's a shame that the Driver's Championship isn't going to run to the end of the season but I think the top three teams are now closer than Hamilton's lead suggests.
Imagine where we could be now if:

• Vettel hadn't bumped Lewis at the safety car restart
• either Seb or Kimi had given Max enough room at Singapore
• Vettel hadn't had engine problems in Malaysia FP3
• Vettel hadn't had spark plug problems yesterday (when did you last hear of an F1 car having spark plug problems?)

I'm not saying Lewis wouldn't be ahead (or wouldn't deserve to be) but he's ended up with a very easy run at it through some slightly odd circumstances in the second half of the season.

We can all play 'what-if' but the fact remains that Seb can only blame himself for Baku and Singapore. And the spark plug thing is clearly not as uncommon as any of us thought - these engines are running at the edge of detonation, and Ferrari's late-season development seems to be that half-step too far.

Hamilton's stuck at it all year even when the car's been a bit useless, and has made the most of his opportunities. I can't think of an occasion this season when he's squandered points, been critical of his team, or had a radio meltdown. Unlike Seb, who's proven to be a better driver than I ever thought he was, but equally has shown an inability to think strategically or, at times, to act rationally.

[gerard]

It's a shame that the Driver's Championship isn't going to run to the end of the season but I think the top three teams are now closer than Hamilton's lead suggests.
Imagine where we could be now if:

• Vettel hadn't bumped Lewis at the safety car restart
• either Seb or Kimi had given Max enough room at Singapore
• Vettel hadn't had engine problems in Malaysia FP3
• Vettel hadn't had spark plug problems yesterday (when did you last hear of an F1 car having spark plug problems?)

I'm not saying Lewis wouldn't be ahead (or wouldn't deserve to be) but he's ended up with a very easy run at it through some slightly odd circumstances in the second half of the season.

What if.......

McLaren had pulled Hamilton in 2 laps earlier in the Chinese GP 2007...he would have won the title.
Hamilton's engine had not blown at last years Malaysia GP....he would have won the title

What if.....if the biggest word in the dictionary...........Hamilton would be looking at his 6th title this season.

[Andyg]

Lewis lost a world champion by one point to Kimi. I bet he is hoping to win this one by 100+.

And well deserved it will be too. 10 poles and 8 wins so far.

This compares with 4 wins by Vettel, 2 by Bottas, and one each by the Red Bull boys, and all of whom had their bottoms spanked by Mercedes and Lewis.

[Jeremy67]

Does anyone think this is a good look? Get some socks man, oh and I don't think your tailor made a very good job of that inside leg measurement either.

[snowman]

Does anyone think this is a good look? Get some socks man, oh and I don't think your tailor made a very good job of that inside leg measurement either.

[Backward point]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41614891

I wasn't expecting that. Hartley was brilliant in Formula 3, but it's been a while since he raced a single seater. The last time a WEC driver had a one-off race in Formula 1 was when Andre Lotterer drove a Caterham at Spa.

Hartley was a Red Bull driver when he was in F3, but as I said earlier, the Red Bull conveyor belt of talent seems to have ground to a halt.

[Robti]

Yes that came as a complete surprise to me as well

[Steve27752]

Bye, bye Kyvat.

[ryanb741]

Where would you guys rank Hamilton in an all time F1 driver list? I know it's hard to say when he has so much of his career still ahead of him but we are clearly talking about an all time great here.

[Bravo73]

Well, he’s not in the top 3. Not with Fangio, Clark and Senna.

So, I’d probably put him 4th, ahead of Schumacher and the rest. He’s certainly the best of the modern generation.

[Saint-Just]

Difficult to say as being in such a dominant team means the figures of his achievements may be overrated, just like Alonso’s are underrated. When properly challenged he always rises to the occasion but he didn’t need to for many of his victories.
Likewise the number of poles, although his stats compare very favourably to any of his teammates’.

[adrianw]

Where would you guys rank Hamilton in an all time F1 driver list? I know it's hard to say when he has so much of his career still ahead of him but we are clearly talking about an all time great here.

It is near on impossible to compare drivers from different eras, the car, technology and rules are so different

[Foxy100]

^^^ this. Not withstanding Cilla dislike of all things F1,

Unfortunately i am starting to think that his dislike for the second most successful driver in F1 history is that it's because he is

a) black.

b) English

c) black and English.

But who cares what the resident cat strangler thinks to be honest


but another stunning performance by LH today who managed the race perfectly.

You need to find someone to review your posts before you hit the 'Submit Reply' button. Someone who can explain in words of one syllable exactly why what you're trying to say marks you out as a complete and utter buffoon.

[Foxy100]

Well, he’s not in the top 3. Not with Fangio, Clark and Senna.

So, I’d probably put him 4th, ahead of Schumacher and the rest. He’s certainly the best of the modern generation.

He'd probably be behind Ascari too. Maybe Moss, although his F1 career was never judged on statistics. Villeneuve (G) too. Again, never a champion but has there ever been a greater racing driver?

[Andyg]

It is near on impossible to compare drivers from different eras, the car, technology and rules are so different

Agreed, however I would still put Moss ahead of many who did win the World Championship.

However I think we will have to wait a long time before we see anyone else as successful as LH.

Personally in my time 1965-Now, it would go something like this

Clarke, Hamilton, Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Schuy, Mansell, Prost, Vettel, Alonso, Hunt, Rosberg(Jr),

[Backward point]

Agreed, however I would still put Moss ahead of many who did win the World Championship.

However I think we will have to wait a long time before we see anyone else as successful as LH.

Personally in my time 1965-Now, it would go something like this

Clarke, Hamilton, Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Schuy, Mansell, Prost, Vettel, Alonso, Hunt, Rosberg(Jr),

I suspect we will see other drivers who have the fastest car in the field, which has an additional helping of power during the critical final stage of qualifying (also available at the start of a race), and can therefore run in clean air. The same as Vettel and Schumacher had when they each won a string of titles.

[Andyg]

You need to find someone to review your posts before you hit the 'Submit Reply' button. Someone who can explain in words of one syllable exactly why what you're trying to say marks you out as a complete and utter buffoon.

Yawn, alas you seem unable to provide that service.

What's curious that you profess to enjoying motor sport, but for some reason you have decided LH is not worthy, yet cannot articulate your reasons why. Clearly it cannot be his ability to drive, race and set-up the car - things that really counts. So what is it that really grinds your gears.

[Backward point]

Yawn, alas you seem unable to provide that service.

What's curious that you profess to enjoying motor sport, but for some reason you have decided LH is not worthy, yet cannot articulate your reasons why. Clearly it cannot be his ability to drive, race and set-up the car - things that really counts. So what is it that really grinds your gears.

Or it could be that your blinkered devotion to Lewis Hamilton manifests itself in an incomprehensible torrent of mis-spelling and grammatical howlers?

[Andyg]

I suspect we will see other drivers who have the fastest car in the field, which has an additional helping of power during the critical final stage of qualifying (also available at the start of a race), and can therefore run in clean air. The same as Vettel and Schumacher had when they each won a string of titles.

I would say that all F1 WC have enjoyed an additional helping "something" whether is power, chasis, tyres, aero to win. In such a highly technical sport like F1, talent is simply not enough. However before judging LH - he runs in clear air because he can qualify so well, however just have a look at his results when he does qualified badly.

However what makes very special drivers are those that can continue to win with different teams/different cars, over many years, on different tracks, in many different conditions under all the associated pressure and expectations. Vettel for example is an excellent driver, but has demonstrated that he can buckle under pressure. He alas reminds me of MS, Prost in many respects - all who understood the old maxim - to finish first one first has to finish. LH is more like Senna, Mansell, both of whom were racers, willing to risk all to get the win. Max also falls into this category.

As for future champions, we will see, if for example Ferrari sign Max and make sure he has a tame #2 driver, and the right equipenment, then possibly, however don't forget the FIA still have tendency to try to level the playing field if things get boring. Like they did in 2016.

[Andyg]

Or it could be that your blinkered devotion to Lewis Hamilton manifests itself in an incomprehensible torrent of mis-spelling and grammatical howlers?

Its a post on a watch forum, not an English exam. But perhaps Foxy can answer the question.

[Longblackcoat]

LH is more like Senna, Mansell, both of whom were racers, willing to risk all to get the win. Max also falls into this category.

Maybe once, but Hamilton is now a far more mature driver than he used to be. He wants to win, of course he does, but he wants the Championship more than an individual victory, hence not fighting Verstappen hard for the Malaysia win.

And Hamilton’s orders of magnitude smarter than Mansell, who never had even an ounce of subtlety.

[Backward point]

Its a post on a watch forum, not an English exam. But perhaps Foxy can answer the question.

You do yourself no favours. If you want to be taken seriously, you should proof-read your posts before clicking "Submit reply".

I don't doubt that you could make some valuable contributions to this thread, as you seem passionate and know your racing. But your incessant deification of Lewis Hamilton has become rather tedious.

[Foxy100]

Yawn, alas you seem unable to provide that service.

What's curious that you profess to enjoying motor sport, but for some reason you have decided LH is not worthy, yet cannot articulate your reasons why. Clearly it cannot be his ability to drive, race and set-up the car - things that really counts. So what is it that really grinds your gears.

No, I'd rather scoop out my eyes with a rusty spoon.

I don't believe I've ever said Hamilton isn't a good driver. Would you let me know where I've said it and where I've failed to articulate my reasons for something I've not said?

I find it a huge shame we don't (with the exception of Nico and his excellent Le Mans win) get to see current F1 drivers in any other types of motorsport, with the exception of the Race Of Champions. Even that was a bit dull on the two or three times I saw it. I may joke about putting the drivers in identical 100bhp Austin A35s for the Monaco GP but it would be brilliant - an otherwise incredibly dull procession changed to something where all 20 or so drivers have an equal chance, in cars so thin you can run them three or four abreast where contact wouldn't matter or if it did might be repairable with a hammer; pretty much a much longer version of the St Mary's Trophy. Sadly by removing the opportunity to watch drivers compete in different formulae in cars more - or less - successful than the ones they drive in F1, we can't see just how good a driver is in comparison to his peers.

I still can't believe you've implied Cilla is racist.

[Bravo73]

Clarke, Hamilton, Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Schuy, Mansell, Prost, Vettel, Alonso, Hunt, Rosberg(Jr),

You have Nico Rosberg in your ‘Top 12’? Wow.

[Saint-Just]

You have Nico Rosberg in your ‘Top 12’? Wow.

Well he had no choice, since NR beat LH last year, he has to be outstanding

[JasonM]

You have Nico Rosberg in your ‘Top 12’? Wow.

I almost expected to see Damon Hill there too 😁

[Foxy100]

You have Nico Rosberg in your ‘Top 12’? Wow.

And 'Clarke', whoever he is. Ken, maybe?

[JeremyO]

Agreed, however I would still put Moss ahead of many who did win the World Championship.

However I think we will have to wait a long time before we see anyone else as successful as LH.

Personally in my time 1965-Now, it would go something like this

Clarke, Hamilton, Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Schuy, Mansell, Prost, Vettel, Alonso, Hunt, Rosberg(Jr),

I, too, rate Hamilton above Senna with Prost close behind and Schumacher above Stewart and Lauda.

I think it’s very difficult to compare Fangio and Clark to more recent drivers as these were completely different eras.

[Andyg]

I, too, rate Hamilton above Senna with Prost close behind and Schumacher above Stewart and Lauda.

I think it’s very difficult to compare Fangio and Clark to more recent drivers as these were completely different eras.

And we haven't even mentioned Nuvolari, Braham or Surtees.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

And we haven't even mentioned Nuvolari, Braham or Surtees.

It's not a like for like comparison - for sure the performances were in their pier group with similar technology BUT the cars changed massively over those years.

Legends for sure, but the list is just that for me.

[Andyg]

It's not a like for like comparison - for sure the performances were in their pier group with similar technology BUT the cars changed massively over those years.

Legends for sure, but the list is just that for me.

I know Chris, different technology, different tracks, diiferent times. The days of "gentleman drivers" Vs the professional drivers we have today.

What i simply cannot understand is the mindless bigotry shown towards one driver. I am not a fan of some drivers but I can at least articulate why and its for things they did on track, rather than something else.

Anywhoo the circus continues in Austin next weekend, complete with Justin Timberlake and Stevie Wonder.

[chrisb]

And we haven't even mentioned Nuvolari, Braham or Surtees.

..nor Rindt!

[MakeColdplayHistory]

Anywhoo the circus continues in Austin next weekend, complete with Justin Timberlake and Stevie Wonder.

Hopefully together in a two-seater, not in separate cars?

[Mr Pointy]

An interesting piece on Hamilton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41576209

And cue the haterz...

[Foxy100]

What i simply cannot understand is the mindless bigotry shown towards one driver. I am not a fan of some drivers but I can at least articulate why and its for things they did on track, rather than something else.

You haven't answered my question. Did you understand it?

[snowman]

To be fair Braham's impact on F1 was pretty limited...

M

[Foxy100]

To be fair Braham's impact on F1 was pretty limited...

M

His cars always sounded good though didn't they?

Nuvolari wasn't an F1 driver. But then what do I know.

[Andyg]

You haven't answered my question. Did you understand it?

What question would that be?

[Andyg]

His cars always sounded good though didn't they?

Nuvolari wasn't an F1 driver. But then what do I know.

But he still managed to win the Belgium, German and Monoco Grand Prix.

F1 as we know it, started in 1950, four years alfter Nuvolari's last GP win.

[Foxy100]

Where would you guys rank Hamilton in an all time F1 driver list?

And we haven't even mentioned Nuvolari, Braham or Surtees.

F1 as we know it, started in 1950, four years alfter Nuvolari's last GP win.

[Foxy100]

What question would that be?

I don't believe I've ever said Hamilton isn't a good driver. Would you let me know where I've said it and where I've failed to articulate my reasons for something I've not said?

[Dazzler]

Interesting Button article with a stupid (beneath the BBC) sensationalist headline.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41528046

[Andyg]

I don't believe I've ever said Hamilton isn't a good driver. Would you let me know where I've said it and where I've failed to articulate my reasons for something I've not said?

oh this question. Well this is based upon your other comments directed towards Hamilton. Was it not you who first called him a cockwomble. I think it was.

Therefore if the reason was not his ability to drive fast, win races and championships, then what was it, that caused you to judge him as a cockwomble.


Not pathetic and small minded stuff like this I hope.

I find it interesting that he was offered a tie and jacket at Wimbledon but chose to not actually watch and sulk instead. What a very silly man.

He tweeted that he'd been refused entry to the royal box for the final. Someone from Wimbledon reported that he'd been offered a tie and jacket so he could actually go in but he declined and stuck a picture on Instagram or Twitter of him in a hospitality room somewhere.

I think Hamilton's an excellent driver, I prefer Rosberg out of the car though and really want Ricciardo to win. Neither of the latter dress like cockwombles though, or stick in dodgy earrings and so on.

being out of the car will hardly win you a F1 WC I think.

....

Incidentally I don't think Lewis has ever run another driver off the road, and aside from drawing on points with Alonso (did he really not know Piquet Jr was going to cheat? A very good driver but not great) in his first season, I'm not convinced he's done anything but be a fast driver in the best car to be described as great but I still think he's a cockwomble!

You posted this in 2015. After which he won his 3rd WC, was runner up in 2016, gained to highest number of Poles, by anyone, and has now passed 70 GPs - second only to MS.

But still a cockwomble in your small and narrow mind, which seems to be based upon his clothes, earrings and something that happened at Wimbledon -FFS!

I accept I am a fan boy, just as I was a fan boy of Clark, Hunt and Mansell, simply because I love watching them drive, race and win. Ditto DM and Ocon on the current grid. Max less so because he is already turning into SV - another driver who simply expects drivers to get out of his way. Two wins in 55 starts isnt a great record is it.

[CardShark]

Knock it on the head. Please.

[mtagrant]

This thread has turned into one more suitable for The bearpit or one entitled Brexit. Can we get back to F1 ?

[Foxy100]

Er, yes.

I like Brendon Hartley, met him and talked car rubbish at Salon Privé three years ago when he'd signed up with Porsche and their Chopard sponsorship.