Solar farms/fields - what an eyesore.

[electorn]

Out and about over Christmas, I noticed the huge amount of solar panel farms that have sprung up around the country. These things are a blight on the countryside.

There must be some massive subsidies flying around to tie up fields for 25 years with these things.

With Brexit looming, I would think we will need all the ground we have to grow food to eat. Do these things actually provide that much power to the national grid?

I would have thought a scheme to put solar panels on the roof of every building would have been far more beneficial, and save the fields for crops and animals.

Whinge over for today.

[James_]

Solar farms and windfarms are more important than sustaining agriculture at the moment.

These solar farms are there to save the countryside from turning into a wasteland caused by C02.

If it weren't for cheap oil and human greed the world woud have been full of solar farms and probably a better place.
A good place to start reading about solar vs oil would be this...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustin_Mouchot


Yes agriculture would suffer but that is a small price to pay for making steps to literally save the planet.

Out and about over Christmas, I noticed the huge amount of solar panel farms that have sprung up around the country. These things are a blight on the countryside.

There must be some massive subsidies flying around to tie up fields for 25 years with these things.

With Brexit looming, I would think we will need all the ground we have to grow food to eat. Do these things actually provide that much power to the national grid?

I would have thought a scheme to put solar panels on the roof of every building would have been far more beneficial, and save the fields for crops and animals.

Whinge over for today.

[TheFlyingBanana]

We just have to adjust to them, and recognise they are probably essential for a sustainable future. I read a while back that they are also excellent for wildlife, as they provide shelter and a "stable" environment.

So there are upsides in addition to the energy also.

[lewie]

We were in Palm Springs a couple of years ago - there were massive solar and wind farms

[gunner]

In addition to the benefits mentioned already, I actually find them quite aesthetically pleasing. Wind turbines too.

[ArcofZen]

in the field near my Mums they graze sheep underneath the panels.

[southerner101]

they are huge earners for the land owners..... We have one if not the biggest in the country near Stockbridge.... very well hidden on a farmers land and is a 50mw site. The land owner gets 5 million a year i think it is for the next 25 years and didnt have to invest a single penny .................. being on the local councils planning committee helped mind as he was able to reject all other applications for similar projects. Money goes to money i guess.

[redmonaco]

I'd rather see solar fields than wind farms. I can't believe that wind turbines are energy efficient. When you stack up the energy used to mine build, transport and maintain the things I think the only gain is the subsidy received from the EU for each one.

[Mick P]

I used to procure energy for a living just before I retired and to be honest it was a total pain in the arse.

There are only two reliable methods of producing an uninterruptable electricity supply, these being coal and nuclear. Both have environmental issues and every government in the world is delaying the decisions to build new plants because of pressure groups. Europe and the US is slowly using more energy and due to failure to renew plant, the ability to meet demand is becoming harder to achieve.

Renewables are obviously clean but they are expensive and unreliable. Turbines will not turn with no wind and low sun levels in the winter is pretty useless when demand is high.

The current system of mix and match means the best and the worst of all worlds.

Mick

[electorn]

I see I am in the minority! I can't stand the things. What is the difficulty with off shore wave generation then, too maintenance heavy and manpower intensive?

There obviously has to be a balance between human needs and environmental protection. At the end of the day, being top of the food chain, surely it means we have to look after ourselves first?

[andy tims]

Power stations are hardly attractive.

[hafle]

Power stations are hardly attractive.

Exactly. I'll take a field of solar panels over cooling towers any day.

[nunya]

I see I am in the minority! I can't stand the things. What is the difficulty with off shore wave generation then, too maintenance heavy and manpower intensive?

There obviously has to be a balance between human needs and environmental protection. At the end of the day, being top of the food chain, surely it means we have to look after ourselves first?

Wind farms are more expensive to maintain and are noisy. Solar energy is more cost effective and quiet.

[jaytip]

I have no issues with solar farms or wind turbines. If they don't lose money, I don't see the problem.

[demer03]

I hate these things. Sprouting up everywhere in Northern Michigan.

Ugly as hell.

[Neil.C]

We were in Palm Springs a couple of years ago - there were massive solar and wind farms

That's pretty much a desert, plus of course it gets plenty of sun.

I think people are complaining in the main about the impact on our countryside over here in a much smaller nation.

Obviously there is nowhere near the sunlight here as in a place like Palm Springs with our cloud cover, I also read that wind turbines have to be turned off if the wind gets too strong.

I wonder how much power we actually get from these eyesores or are they just mainly a sop to the Greens and EU types?

Be interesting to know.

[Vanguard]

I read if the USA covered just 1% of the country in solar panels they wouldn't need any other power source. Food for thought if you ask me

[Walesy]

I dont have an issue with them at all to be honest, the only issue I had is when they proposed to erect one near us in Green belt land to serve another area of Glasgow and not us, the planning has since been refused.

[Kingstepper]

I hate these things. Sprouting up everywhere in Northern Michigan.

Ugly as hell.

No worse than pylons - indeed, quite graceful and preferable IMO.

[Der Amf]

Out and about over Christmas, I noticed the huge amount of solar panel farms that have sprung up around the country. These things are a blight on the countryside.

The unblemished British landscape



Drax, visible from a long long way away

[sammyl1000]

Solar farms are absolutely horrible eye sores. Hate them. I know this is a just a silly opinion based on nothing.... but it's mine!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[plw]

The unblemished British landscape



Drax, visible from a long long way away

A quick Google shows Drax produces 4,000MW and a 25 acre solar farm produces 5MW. By my calculation that makes a 20,000 acre solar farm = 1 Drax.

[Backward point]

in the field near my Mums they graze sheep underneath the panels.

they are huge earners for the land owners..... We have one if not the biggest in the country near Stockbridge.... very well hidden on a farmers land and is a 50mw site. The land owner gets 5 million a year i think it is for the next 25 years and didnt have to invest a single penny .................. being on the local councils planning committee helped mind as he was able to reject all other applications for similar projects. Money goes to money i guess.

Farming post Brexit may become more attractive, but there aren't many arable (or livestock) farmers who would turn down a nice crop of solar panels for no investment or effort right now. There's a field of solar panels near where I live, but you wouldn't know it, as they're behind a dense hedge in an area where it pays to concentrate on the road!

[lordloz]

I see I am in the minority! I can't stand the things. What is the difficulty with off shore wave generation then, too maintenance heavy and manpower intensive?

There obviously has to be a balance between human needs and environmental protection. At the end of the day, being top of the food chain, surely it means we have to look after ourselves first?

No you aren't ....they ruined the highest point between beautiful Exmoor and Dartmoor with their ridiculous turbines 10 minutes from me....council threw it out after massive local opposition..... wind farm co got Whitehall planner down overturned it in one fell swoop.... for me I don't see from my place but poor people nearer hear them clicking away at night....

We are an island.... tidal power is more reliable and efficient (I'm no eco expert) surely , but seemingly too expensive to build as its better to spend billions to make a train get to Brum 30 minutes faster ....

The Nordics laugh at us they sell us their gas because they've been investing in hydro for years and reap the benefits
....and with the green taxes Eddie Milibandy put on and the Chinese/French nuclear investment our bills won't be getting any cheaper....

[lordloz]

A quick Google shows Drax produces 4,000MW and a 25 acre solar farm produces 5MW. By my calculation that makes a 20,000 acre solar farm = 1 Drax.

And my friends run a fantastic Northern Soul night there regularly at the workers social club by the way.....

[kungfugerbil]

While I am very much in favour of renewables, we are a pretty small island rather defined by its green and pleasantness. Also tea and casual racism, but that's another thread.

I must profess I'm not an expert (I know, genuine surprise!) but offshore wind is surely preferable to losing great areas of the greeny-browny-yellow stuff. There's an offshore site just off Redcar that apparently produces 60+ MW from a handful of turbines. They really aren't that offensive to look at (some would make a cruel joke about Teesside / Cleveland here but I won't). Obviously I can't see the posh South Coast towns leaping to install turbines (and the shipping is rather congested near there) but the UK surely has some coastal areas that wouldn't be adversely affected.

That said, small solar on people's farms and properties is ace and should be encouraged.

[Der Amf]

A quick Google shows Drax produces 4,000MW and a 25 acre solar farm produces 5MW. By my calculation that makes a 20,000 acre solar farm = 1 Drax.

And neither of them look very pretty, so why all the anguish?

[Kingstepper]

And neither of them look very pretty, so why all the anguish?

Drax is a small blemish whereas 20,000 acres is probably the size of a small town.

I would prefer the former (visually anyway).

[Captain Morgan]

Obviously I can't see the posh South Coast towns leaping to install turbines (and the shipping is rather congested near there) but the UK surely has some coastal areas that wouldn't be adversely affected.

I wish you'd tell that to this mob who's construction I can hear...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampion_Wind_Farm#

[Der Amf]

Drax is a small blemish whereas 20,000 acres is probably the size of a small town.

I would prefer the former (visually anyway).

The point is that both come under the heading of "eyesore". One we're used to and pollutes, one we're not and doesn't (I hope?) and neither have much to do with our rosy conception of the English countryside.

[Tomw2000]

Solar farms and windfarms are more important than sustaining agriculture at the moment.

These solar farms are there to save the countryside from turning into a wasteland caused by C02.

If it weren't for cheap oil and human greed the world woud have been full of solar farms and probably a better place.
A good place to start reading about solar vs oil would be this...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustin_Mouchot


Yes agriculture would suffer but that is a small price to pay for making steps to literally save the planet.

But C02 is plant food?

[kungfugerbil]

I wish you'd tell that to this mob who's construction I can hear...

Impressive project - that's me told :)

Looking at the list of UK sites it is still rather dominated by places like Barrow, Humber and the like.

Also, just to prove the fact that I'm no expert, onshore wind looks like the lowest cost per MWh for new projects in the U.K. Dammit.

Apologies for formatting, on a flaming iPad. Will fix asap.

Power generating technology		Low	Central	High
Nuclear PWR (Pressurized Water Reactor)(a)		82	93	121
Solar Large-scale PV (Photovoltaic)		71	80	94
Wind	Onshore	47	62	76
Offshore	90	102	115
Biomass		85	87	88
Natural Gas	Combined Cycle Gas Turbine	65	66	68
CCGT with CCS (Carbon capture and storage)	102	110	123
Open-Cycle Gas Turbine	157	162	170
Coal	Advanced Supercritical Coal with Oxy-comb. CCS	124	134	153

[thieuster]

In Germany these solar fields are all over the place, including panels on rooftops. And in the north, near the seas, wind Mills. Last year, I had a German client in the workshop who appeared to know a thing or two about power supply in Germany.

He told me: ' In 2015, on a sunny and windy day in the summer, the mills and panels produced MORE power than we needed!'

[demer03]

I get their importance. My issue is that they go on for miles and miles here. They lease property from the farmers and plop them all over around a couple counties in northern MI.

[Foxy100]

I was wondering when someone would come up with solar panels that look like roof tiles or slates (rather than the ugly panels you can have stuck on your roof) and it seems they're now here:

http://www.gb-sol.co.uk/pv-slates/?g...bDFBoCh5zw_wcB

I wonder how long until new houses are built with new technology like this and triple glazed windows. It can't come too soon, imagine if you could power your electric car from the electricity harvested by your own house.

[Shropshire Lad]

No worse than pylons - indeed, quite graceful and preferable IMO.

+1 In addition, living in an inland county, how would off-shore electricity be delivered? No doubt via massive pylons running through Wales.

[chrisparker]

A quick Google shows Drax produces 4,000MW and a 25 acre solar farm produces 5MW. By my calculation that makes a 20,000 acre solar farm = 1 Drax.

Drax maybe small compared with at Solar Farm, but Drax is just the processing plant, you're forgetting to add the size of the mines which provide the coal.


+

[Kingstepper]

Could be worse. Like southern Spain (and no doubt elsewhere) where miles of countryside is covered in plastic tarpaulin to grow tomatoes, bananas(?) and other crops.

[kungfugerbil]

In addition, living in an inland county, how would off-shore electricity be delivered? No doubt via massive pylons running through Wales.

Near me they are doing away with pylons to a large extent by burying cable by the roadside. I assumed this was part of some National 'prettification' of national parks etc.

[thieuster]

I was wondering when someone would come up with solar panels that look like roof tiles or slates (rather than the ugly panels you can have stuck on your roof) and it seems they're now here:

http://www.gb-sol.co.uk/pv-slates/?g...bDFBoCh5zw_wcB

I wonder how long until new houses are built with new technology like this and triple glazed windows. It can't come too soon, imagine if you could power your electric car from the electricity harvested by your own house.

Google ZEP 'dakpannen' (= roof tiles in Dutch). This Dutch Guy came up with this idea. He is in good company as well Elon Musk launched solar panel roofs as well last month

[Andyg]

In Germany these solar fields are all over the place, including panels on rooftops. And in the north, near the seas, wind Mills. Last year, I had a German client in the workshop who appeared to know a thing or two about power supply in Germany.

He told me: ' In 2015, on a sunny and windy day in the summer, the mills and panels produced MORE power than we needed!'

I have a 4Kw PV system on the house and I generate more power than I need (on a good day). I also receive enough checks from SSE, to pay for all the oil I use in my central heating system. Happy days.

But even our external Christmas, garage, shed lights are solar powered - no brainer.

If everyone put panels on their roofs, then we would not need as many farmers to blanket their fields. As an aside I am not sure why the government hasn't not put them down the side of motorways - providing they face south.

Next step is to buy a Tesla Powerwall battery and save all the energy I generate.

[Captain Morgan]

I have a 4Kw PV system on the house and I generate more power than I need (on a good day). I also receive enough checks from SSE, to pay for all the oil I use in my central heating system. Happy days.

But even our external Christmas, garage, shed lights are solar powered - no brainer.

If everyone put panels on their roofs, then we would not need as many farmers to blanket their fields. As an aside I am not sure why the government hasn't not put them down the side of motorways - providing they face south.

Next step is to buy a Tesla Powerwall battery and save all the energy I generate.

Have you considered moving over to an electric boiler rather than the oil?
We came close to having one installed in our flat in London due to changes in reg's and issues with routing the flue, our engineer was singing there praises

[Andyg]

Have you considered moving over to an electric boiler rather than the oil?
We came close to having one installed in our flat in London due to changes in reg's and issues with routing the flue, our engineer was singing there praises

To be honest no, but a friend of mine have just installed a electric Aga, but he has an 8kw system (which I think he will need).

No gas in our village, so oil was the only real option at the time, however it's a new Grant boiler (2013) connected to a high pressure system, I have also connected a clever device, which diverts excessive solar electric energy to the immersion heater to "top up" the hot water tank, but this typically only switches on between 11 and 14.00, but it has still more than paid for itself. Any remaining excess goes back on to the grid.

If I was starting from scratch I would go for a couple of solar water heating panels, PV panels driving a air source heat pump and the Tesla Powerwall to store what I don't use.

[PipPip]

I have a 4Kw PV system on the house and I generate more power than I need (on a good day). I also receive enough checks from SSE, to pay for all the oil I use in my central heating system. Happy days.

But even our external Christmas, garage, shed lights are solar powered - no brainer.

If everyone put panels on their roofs, then we would not need as many farmers to blanket their fields. As an aside I am not sure why the government hasn't not put them down the side of motorways - providing they face south.

Next step is to buy a Tesla Powerwall battery and save all the energy I generate.

Not sure how I would attach solar panels to my thatched roof! I have a friend who is a mad scientist for a living. He's been working on a project to develop road tarmac with solar power cells embedded.

[Dave+63]

There's already a few road surface panels being developed. They are very expensive compared to normal panels but costs will come down and they do serve two purposes!

Solar roof tiles are also available now which look exactly the same as standard roof tiles.

If we get to a stage where most or all roads and roofs are generating electricity there'll be no need for any other sources.

[jaytip]

As an aside I am not sure why the government hasn't not put them down the side of motorways - providing they face south.

Not sure if your comment is sarcasm or not (hard to tell in the written word sometimes) but the M4 has three solar farms between Heathrow and Bristol.

[Saint-Just]

I believe what Andy meant was that both motorways and railways are devoid of trees beyond the tarmac and therefore offer potential grounds for large, long solar farms that would not spoil the landscape any further. The solar 'tarmac' tiles are of course an even better solution but it doesn't need to be an exclusive solution and classic panels could be fitted much earlier, thus reducing our use of fossil fuels to generate electricity.

[chrisb]

I believe what Andy meant was that both motorways and railways are devoid of trees beyond the tarmac and therefore offer potential grounds for large, long solar farms that would not spoil the landscape any further. The solar 'tarmac' tiles are of course an even better solution but it doesn't need to be an exclusive solution and classic panels could be fitted much earlier, thus reducing our use of fossil fuels to generate electricity.

How exactly would you clean these solar tarmac tiles ?

[Saint-Just]

Ask those who make them as they already exist.

[SSTEEL]

Musk is onto the right path, roof space being used, next would be to convert the mass concrete that covers the surface of our earth into solar too, I would hazard a guess this will be Musk's next plan once he has completed his tunnel investment for the loop transportation scheme.