Originally Posted by watchlovr
ADs buy hundreds of thousands of Rolexes. They are ultra important to Rolex. Therefore if AD wants the stickers peeled off, Rolex will probably do it because ADs are important to them and will help to protect their interests.
With boutiques setting up everywhere, it is bound to happen.
Mick
It works the other way around I'm afraid Mick. If you've got a Rolex AD, then you're lucky to have one and Rolex will push you and around bully you. If you don't comply, they'll take it away and give it to a jeweller around the corner.
Steve
Yes true but Rolex want to do two things, stop discounting and stop illicit reselling and they need the ADs to cooperate. My own view is that Rolex will go the way of boutiques where they have 100% control.
Mick
But Rolex don't know which customer of the AD then sold the watch to Watchfinder, neither to they know the serial number of the watch at Watchfinder ... so Rolex don't actually know anything and it's irrelevant anyway as this whole story is just total BS from an AD
Whatever the truth, at least no ones getting worked up about it
Really?
Nothing creates demand like people thinking if they buy something it's immediately worth more than what they paid.
Couple this with horror stories of waiting lists and rare models that are only rare because Rolex make it so and it's a marketeers dream that Rolex have created, and I bet they aren't in a hurry to bust that bubble!
Just another BS story from an AD trying to push a product and make a sale
No such thing as bad publicity. And this thread is publicity that is only going to help Rolex daytona sales. Accidental?? Rolex are marketing experts at the end of the day.
Mr Stoat
Yes it is just BS. The entire sales structure is a mess that even a 12 year old school boy would laugh at.
Rolex increases the RRP and yet the ADs discount on price. That is mad.
The ADs sell to grey dealers and that distorts the market.
There is no discipline in the current set up and hence the only way out is 100% retail via boutiques where supply is controlled from Head Office. It is bound to come eventually.
Mick
Out of interest, how would a boutique have any more control over what I did with a watch I purchased than a dealership?
Do you know that?
It seems to me to be a great way for an AD to upset head office.
Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 20th December 2016 at 17:56.
There is no logical reason why Rolex would wade into this situation. There is however a very real motive for the AD, as follows...
AD gets [insert 'rare' model here] into stock. Two customers have been chomping at the bit to get one and have cash waiting. These are :
Customer A) Relatively new customer who has bought a couple of expensive pieces and the AD thinks may be a long term source of income for them.
Customer B) Tried and tested reliable long standing customer who makes occasional purchases for lower values, but comes back.
AD decides to 'review the waiting list' and sees that Customer A comes first. AD sells to Customer A who flips the watch the next day. Customer A also turns out to be a fly-by-night customer.
Customer B loses out this time, and one of the many other companies that he deals with is next to receive one from Rolex. For the next 25 years Customer B potentially goes to the other company first, based on the memory he has of who put him first all those years ago.
The AD has fabricated the given story / rules / tales / warnings / cautions to maximise their chances of future business, thus profit, thus staying in business. Rolex themselves have projected profits for the next year, three years and ten years on these 'rare' models which they will almost certainly receive, regardless of grey market sellers and ADs making mistakes on their perception of purchaser's motives.
They told me they don't.
Case closed.
Indeed - this has been discussed before with the same end result.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Well to be fair Rolex do seem to be selling quite a few watches so something must be working in their marketing and product strategy.
But I tend to agree on the boutique model becoming the norm for most of the Swiss big boys - though I think this will be help retain more profit in-house as against a measure to cut out discounting. Ultimately though if they do all move to a boutique full RRP model it will certainly weed out the brands that are generally charging too much and ADs rely on discounting to secure a sale - I see this hurting other manufactories such as Omega and Brietling long before it hits Rolex who seem to "walk on water" in the horology world.
Haha, classic!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I did laugh.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Really do they.
Steel Rolex are akin to the 3 series.
There is a very real logical reason - the current situation disadvantages real enthusiast customers and pisses off Rolex buyers. If they did nothing I'd be very surprised. From memory, some years ago Rolex closed hundreds of AD's in the US for fuelling the gray market - I'm sure they are not too adverse to doing the same again if they feel there is a need to protect the interests of the brand and its customers.
It's just a matter of time...
Hadn't realised it was the 1st of April
The thing is, the ADs knowingly sell in bulk to the grey dealers with no concerns, and at a big discount, because it helps them shift the units they need to sell in order to maintain their AD status. It works for the grey dealer and it works for the AD sales manager.
For the AD to then make a pretend song and dance about stickers/warranty cards etc. in front of what are obviously regular retail customers who buy one or two watches a year is frankly disingenuous and is clearly part of a lame pantomime to make the customer feel that they have to go the extra mile (i.e. buy more stuff) in order for the AD to deem them worthy of selling to. It's just daft and I can't believe anyone actually thinks there is any credibility in what the AD sales staff are telling you.
The fact is, the ADs are happy to carry on knowingly supplying the grey market, as is obvious from the ready supply of "rare" SS sport models on the grey dealers' websites, albeit at inflated prices.
IMO etc.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As you say likely to be BS from an AD. However that doesn't mean Rolex don't know who sold the Watch to Watchfinder. On their website WF show the 1st four digits of the serial number plus the date the watch was registered. A quick cross reference by Rolex of this information against their own sales database would tell them all they need to know.But Rolex don't know which customer of the AD then sold the watch to Watchfinder, neither to they know the serial number of the watch at Watchfinder ... so Rolex don't actually know anything and it's irrelevant anyway as this whole story is just total BS from an AD
& that is why Rolex Will shut some of the worst offenders off from being Rolex AD's in the future.
It's just a matter of time...
I'm sorry but I have never read so much utter tosh in this and other threads. In my near 40 years as a Rolex AD at various independent U.K jewellers, namely Pragnells in Stratford upon Avon, Boodles in Chester & Manchester (no longer Rolex stockists but still were when I was there) and now at Moody's in Nantwich.
I understand that not everyone likes Rolex. Fine - we all have different tastes, the same way we have with cars or food perhaps.
I also understand that not everyone has had the type of buying experience that I would want each of my many customers to have. Personally I am sorry to hear that as, having been born into the jewellery industry too many years ago, and having been a past Chairman of the junior council of the British Jewellers Association, I am passionate about the standards that our industry should provide.
However I will just as passionately defend this great industry and the very many good people who work hard in it. Just ask my good friend Haywood about me.
Your comment about AD's selling in bulk to the grey market most certainly will not apply to independent UK AD's who cannot afford to lose their Rolex AD status if they did. There are a number of struggling European economies - notably Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal and other Central European countries - who are selling large numbers of watches into the UK "grey" and secondary market ultimately to our cost.
Some of you may know better and be able to tell me the names of any UK dealers selling in bulk.
In 2012, in our little shop in Nantwich, we were selected by Rolex to retain our AD status because of the location of our shop and high level of service that we give our clients. This was following a programme to reduce the number of AD's both here and abroad by around 25%. In return we had to raise our core range from the 60-70 watches to nowadays around 110 watches - an investment of around £500,000 at retail plus a store refit to include a dedicated Rolex sales area that cost a further £30,000 + (see www.moodys1883.com) This was followed by two reductions in the retailers margin both designed to avoid price rises for the UK market and to reduce discounting levels. That is why there was no price change for four years until 1st November this year.
Perhaps now you will see why us AD's want to preserve that status and regret the rise of the grey market. No retailer has a divine right for the buying public to remain loyal, but if you give the highest standard of service, know your product and make the buying experience a good and enjoyable one then people will come back to you.
The furore over stickers or no stickers is a simple one. As AD's we have been encouraged by Rolex to remove them but, as you now all know, is not a rule. If you want the stickers left on then say so. You can always get the salesperson to check it out with Rolex themselves and then avoid upset or confrontation. At Moody's we remove the stickers but only because all our customers usually want the watch on their wrist straight away. From memory the only time I didn't remove the stickers was for one of my best regular customers who purchased the last ever all steel Cosmo we had earlier this year.
And the only time I "lost" a sale for wanting to remove the stickers was when two Americans wanted to buy in bulk to feed the US gray market and frankly there was no way that they were getting a single watch from us.
So, if you are still reading all this please grant me one thing....DON'T tar all Rolex dealers with the same brush. And if you want proper treatment come to Nantwich and discover it for yourself. Just don't ask for a Deepblue, Bruiser, Hulk or Sub-Date because I haven't got a secret stash of them in the safe and I've got number of customers waiting for one........
I will now duck behind the parapet 😀
^^^
Thanks for popping above the parapet, seriously.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Fair enough, thanks for the insight. (Sincerely)I'm sorry but I have never read so much utter tosh in this and other threads. In my near 40 years as a Rolex AD at various independent U.K jewellers, namely Pragnells in Stratford upon Avon, Boodles in Chester & Manchester (no longer Rolex stockists but still were when I was there) and now at Moody's in Nantwich.
I understand that not everyone likes Rolex. Fine - we all have different tastes, the same way we have with cars or food perhaps.
I also understand that not everyone has had the type of buying experience that I would want each of my many customers to have. Personally I am sorry to hear that as, having been born into the jewellery industry too many years ago, and having been a past Chairman of the junior council of the British Jewellers Association, I am passionate about the standards that our industry should provide.
However I will just as passionately defend this great industry and the very many good people who work hard in it. Just ask my good friend Haywood about me.
Your comment about AD's selling in bulk to the grey market most certainly will not apply to independent UK AD's who cannot afford to lose their Rolex AD status if they did. There are a number of struggling European economies - notably Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal and other Central European countries - who are selling large numbers of watches into the UK "grey" and secondary market ultimately to our cost.
Some of you may know better and be able to tell me the names of any UK dealers selling in bulk.
In 2012, in our little shop in Nantwich, we were selected by Rolex to retain our AD status because of the location of our shop and high level of service that we give our clients. This was following a programme to reduce the number of AD's both here and abroad by around 25%. In return we had to raise our core range from the 60-70 watches to nowadays around 110 watches - an investment of around £500,000 at retail plus a store refit to include a dedicated Rolex sales area that cost a further £30,000 + (see www.moodys1883.com) This was followed by two reductions in the retailers margin both designed to avoid price rises for the UK market and to reduce discounting levels. That is why there was no price change for four years until 1st November this year.
Perhaps now you will see why us AD's want to preserve that status and regret the rise of the grey market. No retailer has a divine right for the buying public to remain loyal, but if you give the highest standard of service, know your product and make the buying experience a good and enjoyable one then people will come back to you.
The furore over stickers or no stickers is a simple one. As AD's we have been encouraged by Rolex to remove them but, as you now all know, is not a rule. If you want the stickers left on then say so. You can always get the salesperson to check it out with Rolex themselves and then avoid upset or confrontation. At Moody's we remove the stickers but only because all our customers usually want the watch on their wrist straight away. From memory the only time I didn't remove the stickers was for one of my best regular customers who purchased the last ever all steel Cosmo we had earlier this year.
And the only time I "lost" a sale for wanting to remove the stickers was when two Americans wanted to buy in bulk to feed the US gray market and frankly there was no way that they were getting a single watch from us.
So, if you are still reading all this please grant me one thing....DON'T tar all Rolex dealers with the same brush. And if you want proper treatment come to Nantwich and discover it for yourself. Just don't ask for a Deepblue, Bruiser, Hulk or Sub-Date because I haven't got a secret stash of them in the safe and I've got number of customers waiting for one........
I will now duck behind the parapet
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice work, David. Got any white ceramic Daytona goodness for your loyal readers?
Thank you for commenting.I'm sorry but I have never read so much utter tosh in this and other threads. In my near 40 years as a Rolex AD at various independent U.K jewellers, namely Pragnells in Stratford upon Avon, Boodles in Chester & Manchester (no longer Rolex stockists but still were when I was there) and now at Moody's in Nantwich.
I understand that not everyone likes Rolex. Fine - we all have different tastes, the same way we have with cars or food perhaps.
I also understand that not everyone has had the type of buying experience that I would want each of my many customers to have. Personally I am sorry to hear that as, having been born into the jewellery industry too many years ago, and having been a past Chairman of the junior council of the British Jewellers Association, I am passionate about the standards that our industry should provide.
However I will just as passionately defend this great industry and the very many good people who work hard in it. Just ask my good friend Haywood about me.
Your comment about AD's selling in bulk to the grey market most certainly will not apply to independent UK AD's who cannot afford to lose their Rolex AD status if they did. There are a number of struggling European economies - notably Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal and other Central European countries - who are selling large numbers of watches into the UK "grey" and secondary market ultimately to our cost.
Some of you may know better and be able to tell me the names of any UK dealers selling in bulk.
In 2012, in our little shop in Nantwich, we were selected by Rolex to retain our AD status because of the location of our shop and high level of service that we give our clients. This was following a programme to reduce the number of AD's both here and abroad by around 25%. In return we had to raise our core range from the 60-70 watches to nowadays around 110 watches - an investment of around £500,000 at retail plus a store refit to include a dedicated Rolex sales area that cost a further £30,000 + (see www.moodys1883.com) This was followed by two reductions in the retailers margin both designed to avoid price rises for the UK market and to reduce discounting levels. That is why there was no price change for four years until 1st November this year.
Perhaps now you will see why us AD's want to preserve that status and regret the rise of the grey market. No retailer has a divine right for the buying public to remain loyal, but if you give the highest standard of service, know your product and make the buying experience a good and enjoyable one then people will come back to you.
The furore over stickers or no stickers is a simple one. As AD's we have been encouraged by Rolex to remove them but, as you now all know, is not a rule. If you want the stickers left on then say so. You can always get the salesperson to check it out with Rolex themselves and then avoid upset or confrontation. At Moody's we remove the stickers but only because all our customers usually want the watch on their wrist straight away. From memory the only time I didn't remove the stickers was for one of my best regular customers who purchased the last ever all steel Cosmo we had earlier this year.
And the only time I "lost" a sale for wanting to remove the stickers was when two Americans wanted to buy in bulk to feed the US gray market and frankly there was no way that they were getting a single watch from us.
So, if you are still reading all this please grant me one thing....DON'T tar all Rolex dealers with the same brush. And if you want proper treatment come to Nantwich and discover it for yourself. Just don't ask for a Deepblue, Bruiser, Hulk or Sub-Date because I haven't got a secret stash of them in the safe and I've got number of customers waiting for one........
I will now duck behind the parapet
One of the things I think your comments prove is that not all ADs are as truthful as you are or provide as good customer service as you do.
As an aside, I can well believed that no UK ADs willingly sell in bulk to the grey trade but it does seem to me that, particularly at the moment, there are people attempting to buy from UK ADs to sell into the grey trade. Due to the popularity of certain models and their open market prices and current exchange rates, there is no need to even get a discount to obtain economically viable resale pricing this way.
You've obviously not been around here long enough!I'm sorry but I have never read so much utter tosh in this and other threads.
Thanks for your comments, it's good to hear a reasoned response from someone who actually knows what's going on at AD level.
I believe Patek have a similar policy - but even more rigorous - you are personally vetted and only then 'allowed' to purchase said watch if you appear suitable.
Looks like Rolex may be heading that way - but it is a high volume mass manufacture so doesn't really square up.
Martyn
^^^^^^
That's just nonsense in my experience. I rang a PP AD asked for a Nautilus during the week, they had one, reserved it for me, I went at the weekend paid for it and that was that
Policy doesn't apply to the cheap ones - I read it on the internet so must be true.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 20th December 2016 at 23:38.
And the fact that only a few dozen people in the world actually like them!......Policy doesn't apply to the cheap ones.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
@Oracle:
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Thanks for your comments Mark.
Certainly as far as people wanting to buy from UK AD's there's no disputing that. We have had visits from buyers looking to sell into Europe and also the two Americans - not surprising as, at the time, UK retail RRP's were 20%cheaper than in the US!
Even then I doubt many (if any at all) would part with the popular Professional models when they have genuine customers waiting.
Sadly it is obvious that some people have had bad experiences with certain sales staff at certain AD's but the vitriol is amazing.
We obviously have an easier life "Up North!!"
Have a great Christmas anyway.
- - - Updated - - -
Cheers Ralphy!@Oracle:
R
Cheers Dave. I know it's a thorny subject but we do try!You've obviously not been around here long enough!
Thanks for your comments, it's good to hear a reasoned response from someone who actually knows what's going on at AD level.
Have a good Christmas.
I JUST KNEW IT!!!!!
Hopefully see you in the next couple of days for a drink, Richard.
No that is only usually for the "Application Pieces" which tend to be Grand Complication ones. It is true, it just doesnt apply to anything costing less than 6 figures.
Thanks for that Ben
I'm still alive currently Chris! Thanks for that and I hope it has helped.
Merry Christmas.
Thank you for this.I'm sorry but I have never read so much utter tosh in this and other threads. In my near 40 years as a Rolex AD at various independent U.K jewellers, namely Pragnells in Stratford upon Avon, Boodles in Chester & Manchester (no longer Rolex stockists but still were when I was there) and now at Moody's in Nantwich.
I understand that not everyone likes Rolex. Fine - we all have different tastes, the same way we have with cars or food perhaps.
I also understand that not everyone has had the type of buying experience that I would want each of my many customers to have. Personally I am sorry to hear that as, having been born into the jewellery industry too many years ago, and having been a past Chairman of the junior council of the British Jewellers Association, I am passionate about the standards that our industry should provide.
However I will just as passionately defend this great industry and the very many good people who work hard in it. Just ask my good friend Haywood about me.
Your comment about AD's selling in bulk to the grey market most certainly will not apply to independent UK AD's who cannot afford to lose their Rolex AD status if they did. There are a number of struggling European economies - notably Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal and other Central European countries - who are selling large numbers of watches into the UK "grey" and secondary market ultimately to our cost.
Some of you may know better and be able to tell me the names of any UK dealers selling in bulk.
In 2012, in our little shop in Nantwich, we were selected by Rolex to retain our AD status because of the location of our shop and high level of service that we give our clients. This was following a programme to reduce the number of AD's both here and abroad by around 25%. In return we had to raise our core range from the 60-70 watches to nowadays around 110 watches - an investment of around £500,000 at retail plus a store refit to include a dedicated Rolex sales area that cost a further £30,000 + (see www.moodys1883.com) This was followed by two reductions in the retailers margin both designed to avoid price rises for the UK market and to reduce discounting levels. That is why there was no price change for four years until 1st November this year.
Perhaps now you will see why us AD's want to preserve that status and regret the rise of the grey market. No retailer has a divine right for the buying public to remain loyal, but if you give the highest standard of service, know your product and make the buying experience a good and enjoyable one then people will come back to you.
The furore over stickers or no stickers is a simple one. As AD's we have been encouraged by Rolex to remove them but, as you now all know, is not a rule. If you want the stickers left on then say so. You can always get the salesperson to check it out with Rolex themselves and then avoid upset or confrontation. At Moody's we remove the stickers but only because all our customers usually want the watch on their wrist straight away. From memory the only time I didn't remove the stickers was for one of my best regular customers who purchased the last ever all steel Cosmo we had earlier this year.
And the only time I "lost" a sale for wanting to remove the stickers was when two Americans wanted to buy in bulk to feed the US gray market and frankly there was no way that they were getting a single watch from us.
So, if you are still reading all this please grant me one thing....DON'T tar all Rolex dealers with the same brush. And if you want proper treatment come to Nantwich and discover it for yourself. Just don't ask for a Deepblue, Bruiser, Hulk or Sub-Date because I haven't got a secret stash of them in the safe and I've got number of customers waiting for one........
I will now duck behind the parapet
The lengths Rolex go to..... to avoid TAX
The lengths Rolex go to..... to avoid TAX
Don't tell me they've a Swiss Bank Account???????
David / Oracle writes sensibly.
UK ADs and alien ADs are not the same.
Grey market watches are almost always from foreign shores, particularly some where discounting is akin to an Olympic sport.
Occasionally you will see unworn and stickered UK-supplied watches turn up at dealers outside the AD network, but most often this is because of some peculiar circumstance and they have not been supplied directly to them by the UK AD. For example, watches may be unwanted gifts or insurance replacements where the recipient would rather have the money / fears having another....so an unworn piece re-enters the market.
As for Goldsmiths, I couldn't comment - LB might be reading! http://www.miltonaires.com/product/5231
Haywood
I think some of the behaviour with stickers and so forth is understandable if you look at it from the perspective of the retailer, keen to retain AD status and in Rolex's good books. They may well take precautions to avoid getting rapped over the knuckles when Rolex find thier models on the grey market.
Rolex do not really encourage the grey market, mostly if it is fed by discounted purchases, whch are common enough when currencies fluctuate by significant amounts and somene spots the difference before in-country prices change.
All luxury brands disapprove of large levels of discount, it simple cheapens their brand.
For some the discounting is a game changer (I remember a -40% chrstmas sale for one brand - the chain ost AD status straight away, the brand was livid).
So, as it is us here in the UK that has had our currency battered, it is here that the grey market dealers are looking to buy, and ADs, keen to keep their status (and Rolex happy withthem in general) are taking precautions to ensure tht their stock is not fodder for the larger Rolex market.
I think it is odd, but it is understandable.
D
Thanks Haywood. Will speak to you before Christmas.
I don't think Richard really wants a ceramic Daytona - he's told me he doesn't like those screw in pusher things.....I JUST KNEW IT!!!!!
Hopefully see you in the next couple of days for a drink, Richard.
Neil
I did just that, and so did a number of my friends based on my recommendation..... All of us happy customers and still own the watches we bought...
Now about that Ceramic Daytona.....
Thank you kp. I hope this has clarified a few issues. I do realise that, whatever in life, nobody is perfect.
Until you mentioned the "D" word I was a happy man.
Thank you for your fantastic support
I've had an interesting conversation in Mappin & Webb when checking the PP exhibition. I've been told that PP and Rolex have a blacklist with customer names who were flipping a watch for profit and if they want to buy another watch they'd be declined during the registration process and they won't be able to complete the purchase. I expressed my scepticism, but the sales rep seemed very serious about it.
OT, I'm not a PP expert, but I was a bit surprised to hear that there's a waiting list for the 6102, which costs £200k+.
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