Reply With QuoteOr they could just increase the RRP to £15K
Interesting conversation this evening with the Rolex AD in Kingston Upon Thames, and probably providing further weight to why Rolex are cracking down and why some ADs are removing stickers/withholding warranty cards etc.
They have sold 4 Daytonas since the new ceramic was released and apparently Rolex are tracking every single serial number. One of the ones they sold ended up at Watchfinder and apparently Rolex went ballistic and moving forward the top 5 people on the Daytona waiting lists need to be forwarded to Rolex so they can vet them to make sure they aren't going to sell them to the grey market, by (amongst other things) checking their social media footprints.
This probably explains why some ADs are insistent on removing the stickers and withholding warranty cards
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Or they could just increase the RRP to £15K
It's just a matter of time...
I'd happily buy a white dial Daytona with the stickers removed, with no intention of selling, so maybe the extra fussiness will put enough people off so that I can 😀
I'm inclined to think the Rolex AD's talk rubbish at times- we know this for a fact because Karl Irwin at DM Robinson blatantly lied about Rolex policy being to insist stickers were removed.
There are numerous steel ceramic Daytona's at grey dealers- how on earth can Rolex determine the serial numbers unless they go buy them or individually look at them?
How did Rolex know where the Watchfinder Daytona originated from??
Something doesn't add up......
I find this all very bizarre. Its only a watch, not a limited edition super car or a precious commodity. It's supply and demand at the end of the day. If they continue to limit supply then it'll drive the second hand / nearly new market up so they can't really complain, unless I'm missing something of course. I know its all about creating demand and market share but whats next? Rolex will be sending out vetting forms soon and contacting members of your family to determine your character. They'll place tracking devices in their watches and if they go more than 100 yards from your person than a small explosive will be set off inside them rendering them useless while setting of a red alert defcon 3 warning at Rolex HQ deleting you from any possible future Rolex based purchase.
As a slight aside I've a subc going for a reasonable price
(not sure why the smiley face in the thread title on this post)
Haha and couldn't agree with you me. It's ludricous.Originally Posted by subseastu
I find this all very bizarre. Its only a watch, not a limited edition super car or a precious commodity. It's supply and demand at the end of the day. If they continue to limit supply then it'll drive the second hand / nearly new market up so they can't really complain, unless I'm missing something of course. I know its all about creating demand and market share but whats next? Rolex will be sending out vetting forms soon and contacting members of your family to determine your character. They'll place tracking devices in their watches and if they go more than 100 yards from your person than a small explosive will be set off inside them rendering them useless while setting of a red alert defcon 3 warning at Rolex HQ deleting you from any possible future Rolex based purchase.
As a slight aside I've a subc going for a reasonable price
(not sure why the smiley face in the thread title on this post)
Great stories, and I have seen some evidence that Rolex employees do dislike 'Watchfinder. But in the end, a sale is a sale, and Rolex make money either way. They can't stop customers selling their own watches. That's what 'ownership' means.
Great companies iike Ferrari struggle with this ; you could say it is a nice 'problem' to have . And if people choose to pay over the odds, what's it to the rest of us? In the end it is always just a watch .
How would they know what watches end up at Watchfinder? (Unless watchfinder check with Rolex to see if it's listed as stolen?)
I'm presuming we're talking about the shysters at Fraser Hart here...nothing makes me happier walking into a shop than to be patronised by a shiny suited idiot who makes out that adding me to a waiting list would be doing me such a big favour that I would owe him two cows and my first born son
They only need to find one in order to form an opinion, but in this case they probably found more, they don't need to buy it, just look at it, I think the serial number is stamped/engraved on the watch.
I don't think it's the selling alone that's got Rolex in a tiz, I believe the bigger plan has been scuppered, which in my opinion was to start to create an exclusive desirability around the brand, but unfortunately for them every Tom Dick and Harry has one and every Tom Dick and Harry is flipping them, searching on the web there are 36 Daytona's available in the UK on various site's ranging from £13500-£16500.
Rolex has become a victim of it's own again, the only way forward is to stop supply or flood the market to stop this happening.
Asking for a 50%/75% deposit would weed out a few chancers., but not stop the greys from doing this.
I'm unsure quite how Rolex would know if I'm likely to sell a watch by looking at my Facebook and Instagram pages.
There are loads of pictures of watches on my Instagram account. Would that make me look like a collector or serial flipper in the eyes of Rolex?
I'm going to go hide under my bed and worry for a while.
I don't know how they could even tell it was you or not! I don't post pictures of mine to social media anyway, but any AD list I have ever been on has been just my name and phone number anyway - certainly not impossible to find me but it would take some digging and frankly I don't believe Rolex would dedicate the number of staff to this ultimately rather fruitless exercise.
Sounds improbable (i.e. a load of bollocks from the AD). Chances are Rolex couldn't care less about the second hand watch market. As long as the original sale takes place any secondary or subsequent selling on of the watch is of no consequence (and probably no concern) to Rolex.
Also, the grey market is supplied by the ADs themselves. Whilst the ADs may make a song and dance about withholding warranty cards, peeling stickers, "vetting buyers" (as if), etc, this is really not an attempt to restrict the grey market - if they wanted to restrict the grey market the ADs would stop selling bulk at discount to the grey market resellers.
The thing is, shifting all those units to a grey dealer at low margin helps the AD maintain their sales volume and therefore their dealership status. What benefit does it bring the AD when they make a single unit buyer jump through hoops? Well, it might push that desperate punter to splash out on 2 watches instead of one (at full margin), or throw in some diamonds for the missus (high margin) to bump them up the priority list. Or keep coming back for more watches (at full or close to full margin) to "build a relationship" so the AD might one day "allow" them to buy that elusive Daytona.
The claim that Rolex themselves are "making" the ADs treat normal customers like this is laughable.
All just my amateur / cynical opinion, of course.
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Protecting your brand is one thing, but some of the stories I hear about Rolex are getting into the realms of fantasy. I particularly like the waiting list of x years for certain models. They gave me that when the ceramic bezel first appeared. Took a week in the end.
Last edited by Scrubnut; 20th December 2016 at 08:24.
Can anyone explain to me why they care?
Asked a price , paid a price. My landlord doesn't ask me where I was sick after drinking 10 of his pints
PS Sounds like BS as Rolex are black and white its the AD staff that are clearly bored or struggling with life
Last edited by 100thmonkey; 20th December 2016 at 08:28.
RIAC
Sounds like another made up AD story. How would Rolex vet the next 5 people? Is there some blacklist out there with every flippers name?
AD's have to tow a certain line but this line also gives them carte Blanche to create their own myth/rules to suit themselves.
If Ryan's AD is part of the Aurum group then they do all submit top of the list names to HO as allocation comes centrally from them to the individual groups AD's rather then like an independent who gets the delivery direct from Rolex.
This is a Aurum procedure and not Rolex as far as I'm aware, one of my local independents have made me fully aware the do not run a list they will only supply the Daytona to existing customers or big spenders.
Last edited by pitbull666; 20th December 2016 at 09:23.
No kidding.
But they can choose their customers (those less likely to flip) if they wish to.
Im always amazed at the C*ap ADs tell people. First stickers, now social media!? wtf. As if Rolex cares. The truth is, Rolex loves this. They wanted this. They created this. They want this hype surrounding this watch.
If they wanted to "fix" this, its easy, just send more Daytonas to ADs and it will kill the grey instantly. Done deal. But ofcourse they will not do such a thing.
Has anyone watched Black Mirror?
Last edited by kaiserphoenix; 20th December 2016 at 09:31.
From mixed reports I am not sure who is most paranoid the ADs or the company.
Rolex sell watches at a price they determine and the ADs make their mark-up, simple. Blow this "protecting the brand" nonsense.
If I planned to buy a watch or a car or a camera etc... I would not expect anyone to: a. tell me that I am unfit to do so due to my "social media profile ", and; b. what to do with it after the moment of purchase.
The arrogance of all concerned is indeed unbelievable. I probably can afford a new Rolex but the buying experience does not seem a happy one, from some ADs.
Some people will believe anything.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
As already mentioned, some of the yarns spun by these ADs are pure fantasy. It serves as a good tool to exaggerate lack of supply though and encourages people to join waiting lists which are, again, often exaggerated. Many ADs, like some people who work in German car showrooms, designer clothes boutiques etc. get so caught up in their little world that they almost want to believe the hype they try to create.
And as for Rolex tracking serial numbers, with the exception of a couple of special cases perhaps, this is complete tosh. They sell mass produced jewellery internationally and their healthy profits are locked in the minute somebody buys from the AD. The ADs are probably the only people frustrated with the situation, as somebody has pulled the wool over their eyes. But give the perception of restricted supply on anything and there is a good chance that people will re-sell for a profit. Basic economics.
Regarding the ethics of re-selling, which is another heavily discussed topic on here, we live in a capitalist society which encourages wealth creation and competition. Rolex watches shouldn't carry a special exception.
Sums up what the world of Rolex is heading towards. Whether this has been intentionally fostered or not is anyone's guess, but it no doubt helps create an illusion of exclusivity and creates hype.
I know Patek will and do vet perspective owners for certain models such for example the 5711 40th as I was asked if I wanted my name forwarded.
Why would Rolex waste tens of thousands of pounds trying to find out who had sold a watch?
Pointless!
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Boll*cks
Chaps
To be fair to Rolex, it makes sense for them to insist that stickers are removed when the watch is sold by an AD, be it to a retail customer or a grey dealer. That way the second buyer knows where they stand and that day 1 of the warranty starts the day the stickers are removed by the original AD.
If a customer does not like it, they can buy another brand.
Regards
Mick
Tbh I've visited that dealer on a few occasions and the resident Rolex 'expert' I spoke to was nothing of the kind (imho) - lots of nonsense about waiting lists for Submariners, how they each take a year to make blah blah - the standard marketing waffle that I've been hearing for years, often silenced when you point out there's a Sub date in the window of another AD round the corner which will shorten your 7 year wait to 15 minutes. I honestly think they make stuff up because they receive no real information from Rolex themselves
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I've bough a fair few Rolex from the AD mentioned by the OP. They don't remove the stickers when they sell you a piece: the reason is simple. They have an X days returns policy - I can't remember how many days it is - but the point is you sign a bit of paper when you buy the watch saying that you got it with the stickers intact, and provided you give it back with the stickers still on, you can get your money back. I had to do that once, because there was a dink on the case edge not protected by the plastics that neither the salesperson or I noticed when I took delivery.
I read that Rolex are buying Breitling and will be fitting an Emergency location unit in each Daytona. Then the company can see where the watch is and if it's in a grey dealer can confiscate the watch.
This is 100% true because a salesgirl in H Samuel told me.
If Rolex are so concerned about anyone profiting/profiteering from their watches, they should immediately buy back (for the original RRP) any model older than 10 years that may have appreciated in value. That'll fix it...
SGR
Why would Rolex care about subsequent buyers understanding of when the warranty starts? That is an issue for the buyer to satisfy themselves on. Obviously removing protective stickers has no bearing on warranty commencement.
This is just sour grapes from ADs frustrated at seeing 'their' watches being sold at more profit than they are making from the initial sale I expect. They could clearly sell many more watches if they had the supply from Rolex but they don't get the stock for that, this then perpetuates the sales above list and so on.
All this bollocks is putting me off Rolex a bit.
^^ This
You load of BS, this whole load of drivel coming from morons in ADs puts me off Rolex ownership.
It's just a watch.
I'm not a big fan of Fraser Hart in Kingston but personal feelings aside, this sounds like implausible salesman bluster. If anyone is trawling social media it's the employees at ADs. They are sticking together claiming a definitive central directive from Rolex to "protect" the brand but I'd bet good money that no such directive actually exists. Suggestions, hints maybe but no directive. Evidence of such a directive would be far more brand damaging than an inflated secondary market - which, besides, arguably generates a something of a positive brand image and certainly fills up waiting lists.
The ADs and the greys are competitive businesses, that's what this is about. The ADs are just protecting themselves, but clearly some make these preposterous 'official' claims instead of just being truthful.
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Last edited by Croftrock; 20th December 2016 at 23:35.
Chaps
Just examine the facts.
Rolex have just increased the price by 10% and yet watches are selling within days and there is no let up in demand.
Rolex has an interest in protecting its brand image and the way to do that is to make it exclusive.
They also need to keep their ADs happy who get fed up with someone coming in, buying at RRP and then selling it off at a profit a few days later.
The simple solution from Rolex's point of view is to implement a combined strategy of increasing the prices above inflation next year and to insist that all stickers are removed by the AD. That means more profit for both Rolex and the AD. If a customer does not like that, there are plenty more out there who will. It is simply a question of supply and demand and right now demand is exceeding supply.
Regards
Mick
Surely Rolex UK wouldn't stoop to employing one of the 'mystery/secret shopper' agencies to check on the source of grey market watches?
Of course they would.
It's simply good business practice.
______
Jim.
Yes Fords- Rolex do have a serial number on them👍
It's just a watch - they're not selling world peace!
If the watch was being bought on HP I'd understand...
And certainly if not Rolex, then AD's. This kind of carry on is making me consider grey dealers ever more seriously for my first Rolex purchase.
It's like southern evangelists telling punters that they're channeling god.
You can either roll your eyes and move on or you can fall to the floor and lap it up.
I was at RSC St James this morning and asked in conversation about this topic, roles said they are aware of the isssue and it's not an operative from them so I'm inclined to believ the AD to be trying it on
Please explain to me how what you have said increases Rolex and AD's profit?
Legally you would have to sign a declaration agreeing to them giving your information to 3rd parties (Rolex). They have no business doing this otherwise and would be in breach of the data protection act and probably looking at a nice hefty fine.
Steve
Rolex sold each watch to the AD, so they know it went to, at least, the central office, I'm sure the ADs have to notify Rolex whenever they sell a watch, so they can request a replacement.
Simple logistics, not voodoo or anything more sinister.
Unless there's direct official word from Rolex HQ can these type of threads be called; 'The BS dealers spread'. I heard a friend say this, an AD said that...bla bla
All else being equal, pushing prices up above inflation should increase the profit margin, no? The stickers thing is a red herring.
What I don't get about ADs seemingly being bothered about grey sales of sought-after models—assuming that trying to prevent grey sales is the reason some are acting like they are—is that they have long waiting lists, and one supposes guaranteed sales, for all these watches they're insisting stickers are removed from. So what does it matter if there's a grey dealer selling for way over list? If the grey was undercutting the AD it makes more sense to 'devalue' the watch by removing stickers etc., but I don't understand the ADs' logic in the current situation.
If they increase prices, they make more profit - surely that is obvious
Wow, you are some sort of financial genius.
And how does removing the stickers increase their profit?
(As stated in your post above, "combined strategy")
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