Reply With QuoteUsed to fit winter tyres every year but switched to Michelin Cross Climates which work all year round
The tyres on my XC90 need replacing imminently, and I am contemplating fitting winter tyres now that it's got a bit parky in the mornings.
VOLVO and the RAC recommend winter tyres for temps below 7C and as I commute ~55 miles to work and back it's usually well below that I'd want something that's going to last through the winter.
Anyone else fit winter tyres, and if so, any recommendations ?
£125 a corner or less would be favourable (235/60r18).
Used to fit winter tyres every year but switched to Michelin Cross Climates which work all year round
+1 Some footage on Youtube of these in comparison to 'proper' winter tyres and there isn't a lot of difference. Of course it depends on the use but for most people the cross climate is far superior to standard tyresOriginally Posted by Dr.f
I use mud & snow winter tyres on the motorhome all year round for driving around grassy fields, and swapped the 20-year old mini onto the steel rims and skinny winter tyres last week.
They have probably paid for themselves already.
If I miss a day at work, I will loose one days pay.
The problem is the idiots who don't bother and get stuck on an icy hill and block the road, or dawdle for miles because they have no grip.
Also - they normally work much better in the wet than summer tyres
R8 V10 on summer tyres here, at the moment I'm not fitting winter tyres. Will just drive carefully when it's very cold.
If I can't keep up with the traffic I would pull over or take a different route or just work from home for the day if really bad (but appreciate not everyone has that luxury)
I had them one year when we had a lot of snow, and they were incredible. I went out driving at night round country lanes near me which hadn't been touched by gritters and the car was unstoppable. Sold that car however, along with the winter tyres, and have been too cheap to look into a set for my new car - and as we've not really had any bad snow in a few years, not really felt the need.
If I knew we were in for a bad winter, or I didn't live in the middle of a city with well gritted roads, I'd consider them again.
Been driving 27 years and have never ever considered changing tyres for winter. Multiply that by maybe 20 mates over the same period and nobody has ever fitted winter tyres. Pointless unless you have severe and prolonged winters with heavy snow and ice and constant tricky conditions which I doubt any of us do in the UK.
Get yourself a set of steel rims and fit some good winter tyres (avoid cheap. Really)
Then in March /April fit some good quality tyres on the ones you have now and swap next winter. If you're going to keep the car a couple of years it will easily pay for itself in terms of wear; the (massive!) increase in safety and drivability comes on top for free.
In terms of make it really depends on your car and your tyre size. Michelin, Goodyear, Are the obvious suspects but see what the manufacturer recommends. Do not hesitate to opt for a slightly narrower winter tyre (within recommended specs of course)
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
We're semi rural, and the roads are untreated. I fit winter tyres every year, around this time of year.
Much better grip in the cold and frost, and if it snows they're great too.
If you only drive on main roads (which are treated) they're needed less of a requirement unless it snows.
They shorten significantly your braking distance in cold weather on dry road, and even more so on wet road. There is a reason they are compulsory in some countries.
I've always fitted them ever since I started driving.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
You could turn this around; why bother with summer rubber?
Over here we have 300 days of sun per year yet I still prefer M&S all year round for all 4 cars.
The reasoning is that speed limits and the state of maintenance are the limiting factors.
I find M&S hoops to be grippy enough and more predictable. Ok they start to move earlier than summer rubber on tarmac in good state but I find that MORE fun :-)
Much like the GT86 having a lower cornering speed than the latest FWD hot hatch and THUS being more fun at safer speeds.
About that; what's this with the snow flake symbol on some M&S??
Just M&S is suddenly not sufficient anymore in Germany p.e.
Thanks for the advice, chaps !
My commute it practically all DC / motorway (Peterborough to Hitchin) so I am expecting the roads to always be clear... however the first and last mile of my journey consists of narrow little roads that are unlikely to get much traffic, and certainly won't get gritted. I guess having winter tyres is pointless if the tool in front of you has blocked the lane and can't move because of his low profile summer tyres and no ground clearance.
I might just try some Pirelli Scorpion Verde all seasons... they seem to be recommended for the XC90.
https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-gb/...ason#/overview
They look nice too, which is obviously THE most important thing in buying tyres.
I believe the M+S is an old designation, and the snowflake is the modern tested one.
Edit: From Goodyear's website:
The introduction of a legal marking related to performance has made the identification of winter tires more simple. The "Alpine" symbol, or the three-peak-mountain with snowflake (‘3PMSF’) came into force in November 2012 under EU Regulation 661/2009 on the Safety of Motor Vehicles. The 3PMSF can only be used if a tire passes a minimum required performance on snow - the so called “snow grip index”.*
“Mud and Snow” (either marked as M+S, M.S or M&S) has been used to indicate winter tires for many years. Although M+S has a legal definition*, it is not related to minimum performance requirements but has been widely used by tire manufacturers to indicate winter products. M+S remains a permitted marking but while M+S tires have better snow traction than regular tires, they do not necessarily pass the legal snow grip threshold.
True winter tires, carrying both M+S and 3PSMF markings, make an important safety contribution in winter conditions, particularly for cars and vans. Goodyear EMEA* strongly recommends that cars and light commercial vehicles get fitted with four proper winter tires as the colder months approach. Indeed fitting M+S tires in the winter is obligatory in some European countries [see section below]. As legislation with the new marking progressively enters into force, national winter tire laws are likely to extend to tires with both the M+S and three peak snowflake symbols.
For commercial vehicles, tires designed for winter conditions are beneficial mainly for mobility, by ensuring traction and hence preventing road blockages. Since the drive axle is the key one for traction of a commercial vehicle, the 3PSMF marking on the drive axle tires is of high importance. This recommendation is valid especially for the single drive axle of commercial vehicles above 44 tons.
* European Directive 92/23 relating to tires for motor vehicles and their trailers and to their fitting.
I have a set in tha garage that I didn't fit last year, I really should get round to putting them on.
No, but I live in southern England.
They are very effective though, I had some on a Rover 220 I had eons ago in southern Germany.
M
I am a massive fan of winter tyres, if they were compulsory then the country would not grind to a halt with 1/2" of snow. They make a huge difference.
I suggest getting a second set of 2nd hand wheels and some pre-worn but decent make winter tyres, and switch over for the winter. It will be one of the best investments you'll ever make. (Even better when fitted to an AWD Subaru!).
Not only that, but the amount of savings both locally and nationally would be quite substantial, traffic would run more smoothly and more safely.
It really depends what tyres you are running. If you have high performance wide summer tyres like I do then swapping to narrow, winter tyres makes a huge difference. I use the M&S tyres and swap when it gets cold takes me about an hour to swap all 4 wheels. I find they work much better in the rain as well as the cold.
If I didn't have a high performance car with low profile, wide tyres I would fit cross climates and be done with it but the winter setup gives me the best of all worlds as I have better handling (from the wheels) and better grip (from the tyres) in the summer and a more forgiving setup with more grip for the winter.
The larger profile wheels also makes parking easier when it is hard to see the kerbs.
They are not necessary in the UK but I think they are a useful addition and this year look to be more useful than in previous years - although in the snow some years ago they were brilliant.
Stopping power when wet is much better with winter tyres. Check the annual tests on the German Auto Motor Sport website for a fact sheet.
Some countries are strict on this: Germany, Austria etc. The authorities don't like cleaning the remains of a road accident when you're not on winter tyres. It's a fact that they will charge you.
Menno
No. I only drive for pleasure and the main car has 4WD and all-weather tyres. The other two cars have snow socks.
"A man of little significance"
Then get a pair of "Snow Socks" to keep in the boot just in case.
Yep I changed over to my Winter Wheels/Tyres last weekend
They are hugely better in the wet as well as the freezing cold, snow and ice, no aqua planning and I can get up the hill outside my house if its snows. I've been stranded in the past on Summer tyres and had to abandon the car, that's no fun and I'm never going through that again.
Overall unsurprisingly they are much better than Summer tyres in Winter. I tried them about 5 years ago and have been completely converted, wouldn't not use them now. If you try them you will also be a convert.
Yep, I use them every year in the UK. They are much better for grip and traction in the wet and on days colder than 8C. If we do get snow in the UK they are fine but you'll probably wind up stuck behind an accident or someone unable to get up a slight incline because they are on summer tyres.
If you've ever driven in a ski resort in proper snow it's amazing just how much grip winter tyres generate, therefore as a safety measure they are superb. They can safely be used when temperatures are over 8C too.
Or you could hedge your bets and buy an all season tyre, but I tried that once and wasn't fully happy either during the summer or winter on those.
At present I have Goodyear Ultragrips on my Wifes Mini Countryman. but previously had Bridgestone Blizzaks. Both were great winter tyres but still performed brilliantly on dry roads in warmer conditions.
Because of the deeper tread, greater amount of tread blocks and 'sipes' they can feel a little odd to start as the tyre squirms a fraction, but soon settles and generates good grip. I'd rather this than a summer tyre on a damp slippery road which you never fully trust to properly grip the surface. Of course we always need to drive to the conditions but Winter tyres make it much safer and easier. I wouldn't be without a set.
If in doubt watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA
Considered it, didn't feel comfortable about spending 3/4 the value of my car on rubber alone so I stick to my ordinary tyres.
They are also the ones demanding the snow flakes as M&S no longer is sufficient for S....
Imo it adds up to an unnecessary confusion.
Seems way more logical to apply the legal threshold for snow traction to tires marked for such use. Ah well; the larger interests than ours at work again.
Considered it, thought my safety and that of my family (not to mention that of other road users) were worth the money, fitted them...
If you read my answer to your question earlier you will see that M+S were not marked for traction, which is why they designed the 3 peaks/snowflake norm.
And it is precisely because the 3 peaks are given to tyres that meet traction norms on snow that you will find it on some all season tyres.
How would a set of tyres turn bad drivers into good ones? Some drivers simply cannot manage their vehicles in anything other than dry conditions and that's the big problem in the winter. Some of the muppets I see wouldn't be able to cope in any tyres and chains!
This is the first time I've had a RWD car (1 series BMW) and was considering using BMW's winter tyre plan where you buy the alloys/winter tyres and they swap them out and store your normal tyres. Prices start from £900 for runflats (Nokian). I live in SE London where it shouldn't be too bad but it would be common for temperatures to drop below 7 degrees as well as plenty of rain.
My point is that 'M&S' has become a less than useless indication:
- it indicates being suitable for mud and snow
- without the snowflake it has no legal minimum traction on snow
So a question about winter tires becomes a bit of a muddled affair unless this refers to the snowflake marked ones only as those are the only LEGALLY such.
Sorry if I misunderstood. Yes you are absolutely correct, M+S is now meaningless from a legal point; which is unfortunate as many Chinese knock off will have a M+S logo due to the thread design (depth of threads, angles, etc.) but will be totally useless comes proper wintery conditions.
You may find this link interesting.
Right, after having established that 'M&S' says nothing about usefulness on snow and even is a legal pitfall there is another nice legal angle to it.
When a tire is marked 'M&S' the speed index requirement of the vehicle is no longer straightforward applicable. In most EC countries the 'M&S' indication exempts these tires from the speed index.
Unless one drives on the German autobahn, the speed index is a bit of a strange requirement anyway but that does not make the M&S exemption no less noteworthy.
Yes:
No, I don't have them, I adjust my driving to the conditions and make the gearbox do the extra traction... never had a skid yet. I learnt to drive in slush & snow so never bothers me but I'm nervous of others too close!
Thank you... that's helped me make up my mind
Daniel.
It not only you. My boys and I go to school/work on our bikes every morning no matter the weather. We 'meet' lots of commuters in cars. I prefer a driver with winter tyres on his car when he has to break and avoid my boys or me in wintery conditions. In so many words (and cutting corners here, I know): winter tyres make winter roads safer.
Menno
EDIT: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/w...n-1817266.html Use the Google thingy to translate.
Last edited by thieuster; 30th November 2016 at 16:53.
I use them to make sure it never snows. Had a few long journeys through snowstorms in a rwd on summer tyres and won't be doing that again. Neither will SWMBO.
I buy an old set of alloys which don't lose much value, have to pay for the tyres but summers then last longer, so cost isn't much and main impact is having to store a set of wheels. Will probably try cross climates next time as it sounds like they've improved a lot
I agree totally with this, I left my Nokians on all summer this year (back injury made changing the wheels tricky). They are slightly "Squirmier" than my summer tyres (contis) when it is warm, but they are also quieter and more comfortable all year round. A lot of comments here focus on snow, most of the benefit of winter tyres to me comes from their ability to brake like it was summer in low temperatures and wet weather.
The one thing I really hate in Winter is large amounts of free standing water and sometimes it's unavoidable, there is nothing worse than that arse twitching moment when you feel the car even for a split second lift up, the steering go light and you know you are not connected to the road anymore and there is a serious risk of you spinning the car.
This does not happen with Winter tyres you just cut straight through the water.
You don't go speeding about just because you have Winter tyres on thinking you are invincible, you still drive to the conditions and I drive the same speed as if I had Summers on, what it does give you is a huge safety net and more comfort as the tyres do not go rock hard like summer tyres do below 5 degrees
I have a rear wheel drive BMW so if its snows I'm screwed, Winter tyres are a must for me. Wish I'd discovered them years ago.
No, I don't bother changing tyres.
Tom - San Diego
I just let a little air out, or only set them to correct pressure once a year in the spring.
So; like I observed: Why put on the summer rubber???
I mean; you guys in the north have way cooler summers with WAY more rain and I here don't bother with summer rubber!
I think it all depends on where you live and what you are doing..
I do know from experience that BMW and Mercedes always get stuck if it snows. I mean road cars not 4x4.
I don't bother with winter tyres.. just drop your air pressure a little.
Reading with interest. I've just ordered some cross-climate Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons for my wife's car. She's no girl racer and I doubt she will notice any difference during the couple of months of English summer but the reviews seem to suggest they're not far behind winter tyres in the miserable winter months. This is a review from the unfortunately titled Gute Fahrt magazine:-
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...-Tyre-Test.htm
IMHO they have to be better than her using summer tyres all year long.
Do you fit them to the Disco, Kirk?
No snow tires for me. My Skoda managed to get up the hills leading up into Clifton village without an issue, even when the police had closed them due to ice and no grit available. Also never had any issue drivingarou d the Mendips in the snow. I think fwd, manual, and thin tires helped a lot.
I think I would prefer correctly inflated tyres with rubber appropriate to the conditions especially as I think that decreases grip (works on mud but think of an ice skate).
As others have said it saves wearing out the summer tyres and get something better suited to both seasons. My winter tyres are narrower for greater traction in snow and my summer tyres are wider for greater sideways grip and the rubber works optimally for both seasons.
As others have said try them and be converted!
+1 For this. Have winter tyres on wife's Golf, and the difference is incredible. Of course, depends where you live and the use you put the car to....On the south coast, going 3 miles to the station, maybe not. If you get plenty of snow or more likely, ice, and do several miles a day in remote-ish areas, then yes defo....
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