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Thread: Any ideas guys

  1. #1
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    Any ideas guys

    IMG_3598.JPGIMG_3596.JPG
    Neighbour has just asked me if I could find out about this watch. He is under the impression that it is a military watch which belonged to his wife's grandfather. I'm not so sure myself so I thought I would contact the experts. The make of the watch is:
    Bruchsicher
    17 jewels
    Anti Magnetic
    Any thoughts much appreciated



    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Any ideas guys

    I think bruchsicher just means shockproof in German.

    Nice looking watch. I've seen plenty like this described as military style rather than being truly military issued.

    Any chance of some clearer pictures?
    Last edited by alfat33; 24th November 2016 at 14:02.

  3. #3
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    Sorry thought the pictures were better than that. I really struggle uploading images when took with my iPad, I can never seem to get the size or quality right. The photos I've uploaded look really good on the iPad but now I've uploaded them and had a look on the forum they are a bit pathetic to be honest. Would they be better if I sent them by message to you personally

  4. #4
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    On the rear of the watch round the circumference of the back it says,
    Anti magnetic, waterproof, back stainless steel,
    In the centre of the back case ther are three words,
    Oberteil
    Kalzgolddouble or it could be a X and not a K at the start of that word making it Xalzgolddouble
    20 Mikron
    All these words appear in the centre of the back case under each other as listed above.
    Then lower down towards the outside edge there is a number could be a serial number
    116208
    Then underneath this number there is a arrow not like a Pheon type arrow more like a complete arrow
    Point at one end feathers or quills at the other and in the middle of the arrow the initials KJ stamped.
    That's it for the reverse
    The front says
    Bruchsicher
    Automatic
    At the bottom
    17 jewels at the top underneath a motif which looks like two peaks with a candle flame in the middle of the peaks. Hope this helps.

  5. #5
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Thanks. Probably have to wait for someone more expert than me. 20 Mikrons means it is gold plated to a reasonable standard. As it says the caseback is stainless steel. Using 'waterproof' rather than 'water resistant' dates it from before the mid fifties I think, can't remember exactly.

    Nice watch, lots around like this I think.

  6. #6
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    Tanks for your help alfat 33


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Any ideas guys

    If you can bear to search through this website it has pretty well every watch trademark recorded. You might find your KJ quilled arrow or the peaks.

    http://www.mikrolisk.de/trademarks/

    Actually I got interested, so tried myself. Do the quilled arrows look like one of these?



    If so the make is Kollmar & Jourdan, who I know nothing about except they are German and still going as a jewellery manufacturer. Plenty to Google but you'll probably need to speak German :)
    Last edited by alfat33; 24th November 2016 at 18:23.

  8. #8
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    Brilliant alfat it's exactly like the top image,
    I've been searching all afternoon and never thought to research the arrow and initials, to tell you the truth I thought that was someone's initials who owned the watch.
    Never to old to learn

  9. #9
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Any ideas guys

    Was your neighbour's wife's grandfather German? Without seeing more detail, to me it's perfectly plausible that he wore it during WWII but it's not one officially issued by the German army as these tend to have a serial number beginning with D and ending in H or similar.

    That said, I really am a novice. Some of the experts on here will know a lot more.

    PS My first post a year ago was very similar to yours, so stick around if you want to learn a bit more and have some fun.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    It's definitely not issued by any military but as stated it is possible the grandfather wore it during his military service.

  11. #11
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    Understand that it's probably not issued but does anyone know about the brand any history behind the brand and so on. The age of the watch? The model of the watch? Etc etc. If it's a KJ brand then the only reference I can find to the model is on the face with the word light above what looks like a pair of hills with a candle flame coming out of the top of them with the word light wrote round the flame.

  12. #12
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    a motif which looks like two peaks with a candle flame in the middle of the peaks
    I have provided a link to some "mountain peak" logos on mikrolisk, some of which look like the one you describe. Have a look through them.


    http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?sit...rk#sucheMarker

    Cheers, Bob.

  13. #13
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Any ideas guys

    I guess this is the other mark:



    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    ...looks like a pair of hills with a candle flame coming out of the top of them with the word light wrote round the flame.
    I looked around a bit and it turns out that this mark is a bit of a mystery.

    Essentially the case is made by KJ, the 'Licht' mark seems to be a local maker in Pforzheim (where KJ are also based). The local maker would have bought a batch of cases from KJ. You'd have to open the back to see the movement but it may be Swiss (it may say that on the dial). However no-one seems to known who 'Licht' was. I wouldn't take the back off unless you know what you are doing but a watchmaker could do it very quickly and easily.

    If you look at this link you can see a similar looking watch from a different maker using a KJ case and a Felsa Swiss movement. This one is probably slightly later than yours. Yours could be '40s but the movement would be the best way to tell.

    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...sau&1312988405
    Last edited by alfat33; 26th November 2016 at 20:26.

  14. #14
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    I've taken some (terrible) pictures for Mick but Photobucket is playing up, will upload them as soon as I can because he's a massive pain in the arse and won't shut up until someone gives him the answer

  15. #15
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I guess this is the other mark:





    I looked around a bit and it turns out that this mark is a bit of a mystery.

    Essentially the case is made by KJ, the 'Licht' mark seems to be a local maker in Pforzheim (where KJ are also based). The local maker would have bought a batch of cases from KJ. You'd have to open the back to see the movement but it may be Swiss (it may say that on the dial). However no-one seems to known who 'Licht' was. I wouldn't take the back off unless you know what you are doing but a watchmaker could do it very quickly and easily.

    If you look at this link you can see a similar looking watch from a different maker using a KJ case and a Felsa Swiss movement. This one is probably slightly later than yours. Yours could be '40s but the movement would be the best way to tell.

    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...sau&1312988405


    I want a watch with that logo. It looks like someone lighting a fart.

  16. #16
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    I've taken some (terrible) pictures for Mick but Photobucket is playing up, will upload them as soon as I can because he's a massive pain in the arse and won't shut up until someone gives him the answer
    Can't blame a guy for trying! I found this picture of what is presumably a watch from the same maker.



    Some debate on this German forum but the likely maker was Max Lichtenberger, a jeweller in Pforzheim. Previously it had been thought that the maker was Oskar Licht as there are reference books stating this but they discounted this (one of the forum contributors was related to Max Lichtenberger so was able to contradict the reference books).

    The movement may be a Durowe, a well known German manufacturer of movements connected to Laco who are famous for pilots watches etc. If you Google Durowe you'll find out all you need to know, although of course your neighbour's watch might have a different movement.

  17. #17
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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  18. #18
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    That's the best I can do for now, it's taken an absolute age to upload that.
    I have a couple of the back and while he was here Mick took the back off the watch so I have a pic of the movement.Nice little watch and only needs a couple of shakes and it starts ticking along nicely.Will try and upload the others tonight

  19. #19
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Any ideas guys

    That's a nice looking watch. Interesting if it's an automatic. A pic of the movement should narrow down the date a bit. I think the mark represents the valley Pforzheim is in.

  20. #20
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    Sorry for late replies chaps but haven't been on the forum for a few days. Thanks alfat for all your work on this watch. Like mickylall said he has a photo of the movement and I guess we will have to wait for him to post it, for those of you who don't really know him everything he does turns into a massive chore and is really hard work. His computer may be just out of reach but we will have to wait for some sort of event which either means he has to get up and move nearer to his computer or we may have to wait for his computer to walk towards him. Don't hold your breath chaps.

  21. #21
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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  22. #22
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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  23. #23
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    Sorry about the quality but they're the best of a bad bunch plus they're better than owt Mick would've managed as he just gets everyone else to do everything for him

  24. #24
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    Have you got the movement pic mick

  25. #25
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    That wasn't too hard was it mickylall you have a well earned rest now and thanks for all your effort

  26. #26
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    http://www.ranfft.de/bidfun/katb/2uswk/Durowe_422.jpg
    Looks like this movement but without the laco brand stamp.
    Have to say that it looks identical

  27. #27
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Any ideas guys

    Maybe a Durowe movement then, as above. This is worth a read (found via a German forum oddly enough).

    http://wornandwound.com/laco-brand-h...y-perspective/

    A regular watch but some illustrious connections.

    You two look like you are having fun anyway :). Have told the neighbour yet?
    Last edited by alfat33; 28th November 2016 at 22:36.

  28. #28
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    Haven't told the neighbour yet alfat was waiting for all the information I could get my hands on then probably screen shot the forum and print it off for him to read. As for us having fun we are related for our sins although not one of us would admit to it.

  29. #29
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    So do you think we could date the watch from 1933 onwards alfat. When would be the end date of the durowe movement.

  30. #30
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    Just been speaking to neighbour and he has said that it was his grandfathers brother who was serving in Germany during the war, but is not a German, and he brought the watch back from Germany. Don't know wether he bought it or was given it.

  31. #31
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    That makes sense. More of a spoil of war then.

    Like I said I don't have any knowledge of Durowe, just looking at sources that I have been directed to by others, but I'll have another look today.

  32. #32
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    It looks to me like this movement then:

    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...swk&Durowe_520

    The problem is that it wasn't made until 1950 according to Ranfft.

  33. #33
    Interesting watch and research plus amusing banter :-)

  34. #34
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    then probably screen shot the forum and print it off for him to read.
    Haha, don't you mean that you'll email it to your mummy and she will print it off just like you did with all your kids' homework and college work. Grow up man
    Last edited by mickylall; 1st December 2016 at 20:02.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    Haha, don't you mean that you'll email it to your mummy and she will print it off just like you did with all your kids' homework and college work. Grow up man
    Well I couldn't send it to you could I it would take you ages to typeset it and set up your prprinting press,
    Your computer is the same as Mr Sinclair invented move into the 21st century man

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    It looks to me like this movement then:

    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...swk&Durowe_520

    The problem is that it wasn't made until 1950 according to Ranfft.
    Yeah same movement alfat will ask neighbour when his family member returned from Germany maybe get a better understanding

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