JLC vs IWC

**nickg** · 6th November 2016, 22:03

Evening everyone

If one was looking to spend something in the region of £13-17k (roughly) and the choice was narrowed down to one of these in precious metal (i.e. some colour of gold, or platinum):
1. JLC Master Memovox (perpetual calendar, alarm, moon phase, yellow gold) JLC ; or
2. IWC Perpetual Calendar Moonphase IWC perpetual calendar
3. Something else - NOT a Rolex or a PP

Other than "personal choice" are there any significant pros and cons of each?

**PJ S** · 6th November 2016, 22:26

Buy something pre-owned, that cost much more than your budget – you’ll get the best value for the money there.
As for pros & cons – just the usual lesser spotted/produced and greater residual if you stick to Rolex and certain PPs.
If residual value isn’t that much of a concern (biggest hit mostly taken by opting for pre-owned), then there’s a plethora of choice in designs and complications.
I personally wouldn’t put much money into JLC and certainly not IWC, irrespective of complication or metal composition.

**JPCain86** · 6th November 2016, 22:55

At that budget you have your pick of just about any watch out there. Just start looking through this forum until you see a watch you love. You might get lucky and it only cost £10k.

For precious metal with complications the JLC Duometre that was on SC looked the business and was within budget.

**Saint-Just** · 6th November 2016, 22:56

I'd agree with pre-owned, but finding a perpetual calendar in precious metal is not easy.
You could find stuff by AP, Breguet, even the odd Patrimony. I would also suggest you look at some Genta...

**PJ S** · 7th November 2016, 01:37

^
Not too difficult...

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/glashuett...-id4103065.htm
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/ulyssenar...-id4837890.htm
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/ulyssenar...-id4580075.htm
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/ulyssenar...-id5127508.htm
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/parmigian...-id4769588.htm – if you like it, have a chat with the owner here (forgotten his name, but a very nice chap)

**GrandS** · 7th November 2016, 05:44

I would personally avoid Richemont watches.

**magirus** · 7th November 2016, 07:34

Don't forget to check what servicing will cost in the future.

**joethetoe** · 7th November 2016, 07:46

I have always really liked the Portuguese PC

Big watch though.

**Saint-Just** · 7th November 2016, 07:58

Originally Posted by magirus

Don't forget to check what servicing will cost in the future.

That is very true, a PC will not come cheap and from some top makers even less so. However if you have the disposable income to put £15k+ in a watch I do not believe it should be a problem, just a healthy warning.

**Der Amf** · 7th November 2016, 08:06

Fairly banal observation: 8 day PR on a perpetual will save you a whole lot of grief.

Very banal observation: I was always admire watches which have all 12 months written on the subdial, instead of 6 months and 6 dots.

Less banal but more uncertain observation: that proportion of the bezel to the case on the JLC looks more like a 34-36mm watch. At 41.5mm will that look rather heavy? Especially round such a busy dial. To my eye there's something about the JLC's design which is slightly old-fashioned in a way which will only be increasing in the immediate future. The IWC looks more current, for the time being.

**rafy1** · 7th November 2016, 08:16

I am having the both brands. JLC is my first choice vs. the IWC; but it is very personal, my comment is more based on feelings than on technicality: I like the smooth curves, the touch feeling, etc... The IWC is having too much German style and is missing a bit of style / class vs the JLC; but again very subjective and person comment. Both brands are a MUST HAVE ;)

**GrandS** · 7th November 2016, 08:52

Of those two I would take JLC every single day of the week.

**Kingstepper** · 7th November 2016, 09:10

Originally Posted by magirus

Don't forget to check what servicing will cost in the future.

Seen quite a few complaints about quality of JLC service on here.

**alfat33** · 7th November 2016, 09:52

JLC servicing isn't cheap and is apparently not well regarded but there are some very good independents around, including one that hangs around here quite a bit when he isn't fishing or feeding the seals.

**Kingstepper** · 7th November 2016, 09:58

Are independents able to service the complications OP is interested in?

**DB9yeti** · 7th November 2016, 10:19

I had the black dialled version of the IWC; ultimately I found it too large for me, but that's me. The operation, just one click to advance a day via the crown was peerless and I have owned a lot of PCs. It stood head and shoulders above, and I am a JLC fan. With the long power reserve, it's a sensible and practical PC choice. Even if you haven't worn it for a month, it will be set in the time it takes to set the date on a watch with quick-set.

The IWC PC is also a very historic piece as Kurt Klaus invented the 'autonomous' setting mechanism. Combined with Alfred Pelloton's winding system, it's watchmaking history on your wrist and the best of IWC.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Are independents able to service the complications OP is interested in?

As long as parts aren't needed. Disassemble, lubricate, reassemble.

**Raffe** · 7th November 2016, 10:33

I used to own an IWC Portuguese Perpetual Calendar, it is a lovely watch with lots of wrist presence. The PC module is second to none, you control it all with the crown - no need to fiddle with multiple pushers to set it. Important not to advance it past the current date as there is no way of setting the date backwards. You will either have to wait until the actual date catches up with the watch's or it will have to go for a trip to Switzerland.

Mind you, it is rather big though at 44mm. There also is also a discontinued 42mm version, which as far as I know only has a slimmer case (same movement).

**Der Amf** · 7th November 2016, 10:36

Originally Posted by Raffe

Mind you, it is rather big though at 44mm. There also is also a discontinued 42mm version, which as far as I know only has a slimmer case (same movement).

The advert he's linked to is 42.3mm from 2009. Is that the one you mean?

**Raffe** · 7th November 2016, 10:47

Originally Posted by Der Amf

The advert he's linked to is 42.3mm from 2009. Is that the one you mean?

Ah, yes, didn't realise. You can see that the case is a bit slimmer than mine. I would recommend that size, as I found mine a bit too big.

**Der Amf** · 7th November 2016, 10:54

Originally Posted by Raffe

Ah, yes, didn't realise. You can see that the case is a bit slimmer than mine. I would recommend that size, as I found mine a bit too big.

I see that your later version also has a lot more busyness around the moonphase (but loses the digits on the seconds subdial)

**Raffe** · 7th November 2016, 12:39

Originally Posted by Der Amf

I see that your later version also has a lot more busyness around the moonphase (but loses the digits on the seconds subdial)

Yes, have to say that I nowadays prefer the classical moonphase design over the newer double moon, but that is obviously a matter of personal taste. I have never noticed the seconds numerals on the 42mm subdial, funny after comparing them extensively before buying mine.

**kaiserphoenix** · 7th November 2016, 14:48

I like both the IWC and JLC perpetuals but they wear very differently. Get the one that sings to you. The IWC PC will be bigger more "modern" feeling, more of a statment. THe JLC is thinner and smaller, and will go more "under the radar".

**nickg** · 7th November 2016, 15:09

Thanks for the replies so far. I am indeed looking at preowned exclusively, and size is a factor with 42mm being my limit. The quickset feature on the iwc is definitely an advantage worth bearing in mind. Just for the sake of filling in a bit of context, i have spent several years trading up and currently have a lovely 118238 daydate but am increasingly attracted to something more complicated and non-rolex to swap it for. I have just really been "browsing the classifieds" on ad off for a few weeks and as i cannot justify (or afford) somehting from PP the two options i have mentioned seem to be natural alternatives.
Thanks for the considered responses.
Nick

**ekotan** · 7th November 2016, 15:19

Does it have to have a perpetual calendar? A moonphase? What are the must have complications you have to have, in order to help us narrow down suggestions?

**GTuned** · 7th November 2016, 16:00

If the two watches were equally beautiful to me, I would frankly go JLC and then IWC. I have owned both brands, although only multi-complication models by JLC. In my mind JLC are technically superior with movements and have some insane models. If one looks better to you, go for the one you like more, you see the face of that watch every day vs a "great movement" :)

I had the misfortune of dropping a JLC once (Amvox) and with the exposed sapphire (part of the design and functionality) it naturally landed precisely in the wrong spot and broke the crystal. The service took far too long (7-8 months if I recall correctly) and was costly, however, the watch came back immaculate (brand new looking) and worked flawlessly.. I can't really complain that much. I'd much rather wait than have it back in a few weeks looking sub-par.

If you want a non-Rolex/Patek, consider Vacheron Constantin perhaps.

**nickg** · 7th November 2016, 21:47

Originally Posted by ekotan

Does it have to have a perpetual calendar? A moonphase? What are the must have complications you have to have, in order to help us narrow down suggestions?

PC is what I'm looking for .
Moonphase is very pretty but not essential

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**ekotan** · 8th November 2016, 05:00

Originally Posted by nickg

PC is what I'm looking for .
Moonphase is very pretty but not essential

In that case, may I add the Glashütte Original Senator PC to the shortlist? I'm eyeing one of these myself, simply a gorgeous watch; but then again I prefer German watches over Swiss designs as a rule, so I admit to being a little biased. They have blue, white or black dial versions in a variety of metals with a various straps or bracelets.

**Marcpow** · 8th November 2016, 08:48

I wouldn't spent that much on those models. In case of resale you will receive a big hit.

But if that is not a problem, I would go for the IWC

**Der Amf** · 8th November 2016, 08:48

The red dot in the middle is the year indicator. Red for the leap year, the other years white, yellow and red.

On chrono24 all the examples are unworn, so prices for gold case start at £20k. Steel starting around £12-13k

**DB9yeti** · 8th November 2016, 10:34

The finest watch I have ever owned (probably)

Platinum, edition of 200 (100 with this dial) with 9 screwed gold chatons in that modified GUB 100 movement. A joy to own and wear.

There is a steel one on SC for a barely credible £4250.

**watchstudent** · 8th November 2016, 12:01

Big fan of both brands, probably prefer IWC but if you are looking for out and out elegance then JLC wins every day of the week and twice on sunday. Make sure you have the wrist size for an IWC though, although the new 5007 portuguese family wears nicely on even my <7" wrist. With your budget I would be looking at:

although this is in steel.

If you have to go gold...

IN actual fact though if you have a decent sized wrist and/or want a lot of wrist presence then without a doubt this is the watch you should go for imho. It epitomises the IWC brand just like a thin dress watch does a JLC:

**walkerwek1958** · 8th November 2016, 15:29

Originally Posted by GrandS

I would personally avoid Richemont watches.

Why? That's a sweeping statement to say the least! Care to elaborate?

Paul

**Raffe** · 8th November 2016, 15:34

Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Why? That's a sweeping statement to say the least! Care to elaborate?

Paul

DNFTT.

**nickg** · 8th November 2016, 16:06

I am at serious risk of never making a decision on this (which is why I have a good old daydate which you can't go wrong with).

Whichever way I was to go, there would be regret for missing out on the others.

JLC porn.....

**Raffe** · 8th November 2016, 17:02

Originally Posted by nickg

I am at serious risk of never making a decision on this (which is why I have a good old daydate which you can't go wrong with).

Whichever way I was to go, there would be regret for missing out on the others.

JLC porn.....

In the newer version of the JLC (first picture), you can clearly see that is uses the IWC Kurt Klaus PC module as all the PC displays are placed where they are on the IWC. The differences are in the lack of seconds hand and reserve indicator, but these are coming from the base calibre rather than the PC module. Alltogether, the JLC is much dressier as it fits into a 39mm case.

**Omegamanic** · 9th November 2016, 00:37

Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Why? That's a sweeping statement to say the least! Care to elaborate?

Paul

I would also avoid Richemont - shocking quality control from certain brands - including IWC, and too many reports of very bad/unacceptable service from their brands - even a number of AD's I've spoken to have mentioned their issues dealing with warranty work ymmv

**Apersonofsorts** · 10th November 2016, 00:13

I prefer JLC, styling is more elegant and understated. I find IWC's too large and am contemplating selling the IWC to get a Reverso. Though mention of issues with JLC's servicing does make me hesitant since I have had servicing problems with my IWC. Tempted to avoid Richemont all together.

**PJ S** · 10th November 2016, 01:25

Originally Posted by Der Amf

On chrono24 all the examples are unworn, so prices for gold case start at £20k. Steel starting around £12-13k

Blind much? #5

**Raffe** · 11th November 2016, 14:29

Chronext have a sale and their 42mm IWC Portuguese Perpetual calendar has dropped to £13,670. Decent offer, as far as I am concerned.

**nickg** · 11th November 2016, 14:58

agreed thats a good price especially for a UK watch

**Raffe** · 11th November 2016, 15:12

Here is the link: https://www.chronext.de/iwc/portugie...&_currency=GBP

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