Camden Police Officer ' attacking car'

[golf]

Well like you, I've worked closely with many police forces up and down the country and have had similar conversations.

Maybe it's a pipe dream but mutual respect would go a long way to avoid these confrontations.

This.

[carlyrox]

Please quote where I have said that the issues of the 70's 80's and 90's are the single cause of this incident.

this officer acts in a wholly inappropriate way, he acts in a way I would expect from a TVs cop from the past, take a look a this and then have a look at the Sweeney, they are too close for comfort imho.

And no dig but just for clarity, if you wife was in the car as the driver and she had any, ANY renovations about getting out of the car and decided to video the officer and refuse to get out you'd have no issue with him abusing her in this manor and then using violence to get her to exit?[/QUOTE]

Today,*21:58#96

Captain Morgan*

MasterJoin Date

*Originally Posted by*Captain Morgan*

And in the 70's, 80's and 90‘s no one who was of Black or Irish descent or in their company were ever unduly arrested, fitted up, detained or harassed then?

sorry Capt, I thought this message was the response to why you assumed the officer had behaved in his manner. My mistake reading your quote, though please be more specific next time.

Regards.

Keith.

[golf]

If you refuse to identify yourself to a police officer and they suspect you of a crime, in this case a band driver the only other option open to them is to arrest you Till they can identify you?
If you lock yourself in the car how are they ment to stop you leaving and arrest you?

Surly it's just easier to except the guys got a job to do and help him and you be on your business?

[Captain Morgan]

Please quote where I have said that the issues of the 70's 80's and 90's are the single cause of this incident.

this officer acts in a wholly inappropriate way, he acts in a way I would expect from a TVs cop from the past, take a look a this and then have a look at the Sweeney, they are too close for comfort imho.

And no dig but just for clarity, if you wife was in the car as the driver and she had any, ANY renovations about getting out of the car and decided to video the officer and refuse to get out you'd have no issue with him abusing her in this manor and then using violence to get her to exit?

Today,*21:58#96

Captain Morgan*

MasterJoin Date

*Originally Posted by*Captain Morgan*

And in the 70's, 80's and 90‘s no one who was of Black or Irish descent or in their company were ever unduly arrested, fitted up, detained or harassed then?

sorry Capt, I thought this message was the response to why you assumed the officer had behaved in his manner. My mistake reading your quote, though please be more specific next time.

Regards.

Keith.[/QUOTE]

Keith, thanks for the response, as you have directed me to be more specific, I would be greatful if you would respond to my specific question posted in the post you attempted to quote.

Specifically:

And no dig but just for clarity, if you wife was in the car as the driver and she had any, ANY renovations about getting out of the car and decided to video the officer and refuse to get out you'd have no issue with him abusing her in this manor and then using violence to get her to exit?

[golf]

My Mrs knows for safety if a police car ever tried stop you in a quiet place display your hazard lights to acknowledge them then drive to a garage or other public place and call the police just to make sure. Also she would just st give them the info they needed and be on her way

[alexaff]

My Mrs knows for safety if a police car ever tried stop you in a quiet place display your hazard lights to acknowledge them then drive to a garage or other public place and call the police just to make sure. Also she would just st give them the info they needed and be on her way

Let's hope they don't ram her off the road before she finds a safe place to stop!

[qaz4169]

I flicked through the thread and my thoughts are:
I think we have seen part of the events that transpired, not all of them. I cannot judge the actions of the person filming or the reaction of the PO in a balanced or objective way as a consequence. I think the police have a tremendously challenging job, respect for their position of authority is routinely challenged and I don't think many of us would want the responsibility of performing the role though, we would want their unreserved support if we needed it. The PO in question has been placed on restricted duties whilst the incident is investigated. I guess the truth will out...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Captain Morgan]

Let's hope they don't ram her off the road before she finds a safe place to stop!

If they did obviously it would be a valid attempt to prevent someone from perverting the course of justice by failing to stop when directed, only those with something to hide don't stop when directed....

[golf]

Let's hope they don't ram her off the road before she finds a safe place to stop!

Yes let's hope so this is the advice the police gave out a few years ago when we had a spate of fake police pulling people over.

I would rather she get rammed 😀 Off the police than may be robbed and raped by stopping in a dangerous place.

[carlyrox]

Let's hope they don't ram her off the road before she finds a safe place to stop!

Alex,

I am really sorry to hear if this has happened to your loved one but please tell if it has and i do hope the officer who did this is now no longer in the job.

Regards

Keith

[Captain Morgan]

Yes let's hope so this is the advice the police gave out a few years ago when we had a spate of fake police pulling people over.

I would rather she get rammed  Of the police than may be robbed and raped by stopping in a dangerous place.

Does that mean that you would have concerns if someone who appeared to be a police officer was verbally aggressive to your wife and then became violent when she attempted to video the situation and remained in a (relatively) safe environment?

[golf]

Does that mean that you would have concerns if someone who appeared to be a police officer was verbally aggressive to your wife and then became violent when she attempted to video the situation and remained in a (relatively) safe environment?

He would have no reason to why would he?

[carlyrox]

Capt,

Really sorry that the use of highlighting previous quotes is not up to standard as i am currently on my mobile and not a tablet or computer so please forgive me.

In reply i can state that my wife and i have never been on the wrong side of the law, have been the subject of a hard stop or have been in the position of having to use any recording device to capture any interaction with the police and if it was the first thing i, or she reached for then i would be asking seroius questions of why i, or she had taken that route.

Hope this suffices.

Regards.

Keith.

[Captain Morgan]

Does that mean that you would have concerns if someone who appeared to be a police officer was verbally aggressive to your wife and then became violent when she attempted to video the situation and remained in a (relatively) safe environment?

He would have no reason to why would he?

With respect, that's not the question I asked, at the moment we have no indication as to why the officer reacted like this, so again would you like to answer the question I asked?

Keith doesn't seem to want to, I wonder why?
Seen a reply...

[Captain Morgan]

Capt,

Really sorry that the use of highlighting previous quotes is not up to standard as i am currently on my mobile and not a tablet or computer so please forgive me.

In reply i can state that my wife and i have never been on the wrong side of the law, have been the subject of a hard stop or have been in the position of having to use any recording device to capture any interaction with the police and if it was the first thing i, or she reached for then i would be asking seroius questions of why i, or she had taken that route.

Hope this suffices.

Regards.

Keith.

Not really as it doesn't answer the question, but if you don't want to answer the question I guess that's your prerogative and quite a telling point in its self.

[carlyrox]

Capt,

Please be patient, and dont jump to conclusions as you seem to do on the thread.

Regards.

Crossed posts.

Keith.

[Captain Morgan]

Capt,

Please be patient, and dont jump to conclusions as you seem to do on the thread.

Regards.

Keith.

Keith, What conclusions have I jumped to specifically?

Let's be fair you gave a politicians answer when faced with a very clear and direct question, or perhaps you'd like to tell me in what way my question was unclear or ambiguous?

[golf]

With respect, that's not the question I asked, at the moment we have no indication as to why the officer reacted like this, so again would you like to answer the question I asked?

Keith doesn't seem to want to, I wonder why?
Seen a reply...

She wouldn't try to video them

Yes of course I would be angry! But there would be no reason as she would acknowledge them and call to explain she is driving to a place she would feel safe.
But in all my years I have never come across an angry police officer. In the early 90's when I first past my test I would be out and about in my car different towns and cities with my pals , we got stopped at least 2 times a night the record was 6 times in one night. Every time I was stopped I was polite and respectful to them showed them and gave them any information they needed.

I found that they all treated me and my friends the same. I respected they had a job to do and the respect was given back.

Please answe the question I aske a few posts back

[carlyrox]

olf*

CraftsmanJoin Date

*Originally Posted by*Captain Morgan*

Does that mean that you would have concerns if someone who appeared to be a police officer was verbally aggressive to your wife and then became violent when she attempted to video the situation and remained in a (relatively) safe environment?

Hi Capt,

What we have here is the word "appeared" and although we can see aggression it, though i might be mistaken, is directed to a male not complying to the officers request.

Yes i would be concerned if my wife was in that drivers seat and yes she would need to know that the person was a real police officer before complying. However she, like me would as soon as we knew he was.

What would you do in the circumstance of being pulled up?

Regards.

Keith.

[golf]

Answer this please

If you refuse to identify yourself to a police officer and they suspect you of a crime, in this case a band driver the only other option open to them is to arrest you Till they can identify you
If you lock yourself in the car how are they ment to stop you leaving and arrest you?

[Captain Morgan]

He would have no reason to why would he?

Well let's see,

He could have taken umbrage at someone who failed to stop when directed and communicated in a harsh and aggressive manner which causes the driver to fear for their safety and refuse to leave the car.

He could have mistaken the identity of the driver with another individuals who has form and he believes their is a greater risk to the public

He could have suffered a psychotic break and not be in control of his actions.

He could be a bully

He could not be a police officer.

[millie-mail]

The policeman makes a demand on the driver to exit the vehicle, based on an assumption that he knows the identity of the driver and that he is disqualified from driving. There is no investigation, just demands under colour of law. Once the handbrake is on and the keys are removed from the ignition a driver is legally allowed to record the event on his phone. This is sometimes done to adjust the attitude of the police and protect the driver as a true record of the events and if the police have nothing to hide then why should they see it as a problem? The police were looking for the drivers cousin, it is obvious now that he wasn't driving.
If after being stopped I stay silent, I get arrested for failing to identify, the first thing they then read me is, my rights. "You have the right to remain silent". The truth is I have 7 days to produce my license but I am required at the stop to identify myself by name and date of birth. the policeman must tell me the original reason for the stop and identify himself by number if required. If he is not satisfied with my id then he has a problem because he can't detain me without reasonable suspicion of a crime and he can't infringe my rights in order to gain my id. Although the police employ certain tactics to gain control and shift the emphasis.

If stopped as a ped. without reasonable suspicion, you don't have to say anything at all, let alone produce i.d.
The police cannot detain you without reasonable suspicion in order to establish reasonable suspicion in the hope that you incriminate yourself so just use your right to remain silent, you cannot be lawfully arrested for failure to i.d in these circumstances.

The police at the sharp-end do a difficult and thankless job, they have to work around and stretch and manipulate the law just as the criminals do. It is a shame that innocent people have to be treated as guilty before the facts are established, just so the police can gain control of them in order to process them through the system.

Our rights are being abused and over time eroded and we just accept it, the police have overstepped the mark here.

[carlyrox]

Well let's see,

He could have taken umbrage at someone who failed to stop when directed and communicated in a harsh and aggressive manner which causes the driver to fear for their safety and refuse to leave the car.

He could have mistaken the identity of the driver with another individuals who has form and he believes their is a greater risk to the public

He could have suffered a psychotic break and not be in control of his actions.

He could be a bully

He could not be a police officer.

Capt,

You speak of officers as bullys, you have obviously had a bad experience with one or more in the past, please let us know thus we can understand or this is meaningless.

Regards.

Keith.

[golf]

Well let's see,

He could have taken umbrage at someone who failed to stop when directed and communicated in a harsh and aggressive manner which causes the driver to fear for their safety and refuse to leave the car.

He could have mistaken the identity of the driver with another individuals who has form and he believes their is a greater risk to the public

He could have suffered a psychotic break and not be in control of his actions.

He could be a bully

He could not be a police officer.

How many police officers have you met that are aggressive without reason? I have met none


Which is why they advised you call the police to tell them your actions. You are in your rights to drive to a place of safety but you have to acknowledge them or they would treat you as a fail to stop.

http://www.civilrightsmovement.co.uk...il-rights.html

[Captain Morgan]

olf*

CraftsmanJoin Date

*Originally Posted by*Captain Morgan*

Does that mean that you would have concerns if someone who appeared to be a police officer was verbally aggressive to your wife and then became violent when she attempted to video the situation and remained in a (relatively) safe environment?

Hi Capt,

What we have here is the word "appeared" and although we can see aggression it, though i might be mistaken, is directed to a male not complying to the officers request.

Yes i would be concerned if my wife was in that drivers seat and yes she would need to know that the person was a real police officer before complying. However she, like me would as soon as we knew he was.

What would you do in the circumstance of being pulled up?

Regards.

Keith.

Keith,

I don't want to put words in your mouth so can i clarify are you saying that aggressive and violent behaviour by police officers is acceptable if it is directed at men?

Could you let me know how you know that this individual had not identified himself to the police?
Also I saw not attempt to leave the scene by the driver have I missed something?

It is hard to say what happened prior to the point in which the video starts, however if I was stopped by the police and asked to identity myself they are welcome to my name and address, anything else and I would video the conversation for our mutual protection. One thing is sure if the officer was as aggressive as this one I would not exit the car.

[golf]

The policeman makes a demand on the driver to exit the vehicle, based on an assumption that he knows the identity of the driver and that he is disqualified from driving. There is no investigation, just demands under colour of law. Once the handbrake is on and the keys are removed from the ignition a driver is legally allowed to record the event on his phone. This is sometimes done to adjust the attitude of the police and protect the driver as a true record of the events and if the police have nothing to hide then why should they see it as a problem? The police were looking for the drivers cousin, it is obvious now that he wasn't driving.
If after being stopped I stay silent, I get arrested for failing to identify, the first thing they then read me is, my rights. "You have the right to remain silent". The truth is I have 7 days to produce my license but I am required at the stop to identify myself by name and date of birth. the policeman must tell me the original reason for the stop and identify himself by number if required. If he is not satisfied with my id then he has a problem because he can't detain me without reasonable suspicion of a crime and he can't infringe my rights in order to gain my id. Although the police employ certain tactics to gain control and shift the emphasis.

If stopped as a ped. without reasonable suspicion, you don't have to say anything at all, let alone produce i.d.
The police cannot detain you without reasonable suspicion in order to establish reasonable suspicion in the hope that you incriminate yourself so just use your right to remain silent, you cannot be lawfully arrested for failure to i.d in these circumstances.

The police at the sharp-end do a difficult and thankless job, they have to work around and stretch and manipulate the law just as the criminals do. It is a shame that innocent people have to be treated as guilty before the facts are established, just so the police can gain control of them in order to process them through the system.

Our rights are being abused and over time eroded and we just accept it, the police have overstepped the mark here.

But if he just gave his id then no problem.

It's like the people who went to court to have their dna removed from police records! Why
You often see cases of historical rape where someone is arrested for an offence and by using their dna they can tell that the person who rapped the 14 year old in the 70's is a relative. Also applies to new cases where they can see who ever did it is a close relative of the guy they arrested 5 years ago.

To many lefties and people paranoid about conspiracy theories in my eyes.

[Captain Morgan]

Capt,

You speak of officers as bullys, you have obviously had a bad experience with one or more in the past, please let us know thus we can understand or this is meaningless.

Regards.

Keith.

Nice try Keith, are you saying that the possibilities I've given are impossible?

I'd suggest that out of the 125000 or so officers their are all types of personalities, Do you believe that this is not posable?

If I want share my personal history you'll be the top of my list.

[golf]

Keith,

I don't want to put words in your mouth so can i clarify are you saying that aggressive and violent behaviour by police officers is acceptable if it is directed at men?

Could you let me know how you know that this individual had not identified himself to the police?
Also I saw not attempt to leave the scene by the driver have I missed something?

It is hard to say what happened prior to the point in which the video starts, however if I was stopped by the police and asked to identity myself they are welcome to my name and address, anything else and I would video the conversation for our mutual protection. One thing is sure if the officer was as aggressive as this one I would not exit the car.

He would have known he wasn't his cousin if he had identified himself !!
I don't think it's the videoing that has caused the window being smashed. I think the officer will have warned him of his actions which is why he got the camera out
You still didn't answer?

[Captain Morgan]

How many police officers have you met that are aggressive without reason? I have met none


Which is why they advised you call the police to tell them your actions. You are in your rights to drive to a place of safety but you have to acknowledge them or they would treat you as a fail to stop.

http://www.civilrightsmovement.co.uk...il-rights.html

I've met one or two who have been aggressive for no reason, the same as I've met many who have been fine. The days Dixon of Dock Green and of common sense policing are long gone, you have to treat people with respect initially and then adjust as the interaction develops.

How do we know the driver had not already called the police regarding this incident?

[carlyrox]

Keith,

I don't want to put words in your mouth so can i clarify are you saying that aggressive and violent behaviour by police officers is acceptable if it is directed at men?

Could you let me know how you know that this individual had not identified himself to the police?
Also I saw not attempt to leave the scene by the driver have I missed something?

It is hard to say what happened prior to the point in which the video starts, however if I was stopped by the police and asked to identity myself they are welcome to my name and address, anything else and I would video the conversation for our mutual protection. One thing is sure if the officer was as aggressive as this one I would not exit the car.

Hi Capt,

Re point A, no it is not acceptable to anyone.

B, he had not ID'd himself as then the officer would have known who he was, though now it is known that the police believed that the drivers was this males disqualified cousin.

C, no attempt to leave, though and as stated previously in this thread, the male was wanting to and acheiving a wind up, as he has in previous filmings posted on facebook or the internet. Is this the society we want?

I realise not all is black or white but surely we should and must respect the officers of the law who have a thankless task day in and out without the need for scrutiny from us who the closest we get to their lives is watching hetty wainthrop. :-)

Regards.

Keith

[Captain Morgan]

Keith,

I don't want to put words in your mouth so can i clarify are you saying that aggressive and violent behaviour by police officers is acceptable if it is directed at men?

Could you let me know how you know that this individual had not identified himself to the police?
Also I saw not attempt to leave the scene by the driver have I missed something?

It is hard to say what happened prior to the point in which the video starts, however if I was stopped by the police and asked to identity myself they are welcome to my name and address, anything else and I would video the conversation for our mutual protection. One thing is sure if the officer was as aggressive as this one I would not exit the car.

He would have known he wasn't his cousin if he had identified himself !!
I don't think it's the videoing that has caused the window being smashed. I think the officer will have warned him of his actions which is why he got the camera out
You still didn't answer?

Golf,

You have quoted my reply to Keith, I believe I'v covered all your points directed to me, in what way do you feel my answer is insufficient?

[millie-mail]

But if he just gave his id then no problem.

It's like the people who went to court to have their dna removed from police records! Why
You often see cases of historical rape where someone is arrested for an offence and by using their dna they can tell that the person who rapped the 14 year old in the 70's is a relative. Also applies to new cases where they can see who ever did it is a close relative of the guy they arrested 5 years ago.

To many lefties and people paranoid about conspiracy theories in my eyes.

All he legally has to do is verbally give his name and date of birth, that's it! Looking at how out of control the police officer was, then that is all he would be getting from me.

Too many people prepared to give up their rights, use them or lose them.

[golf]

All he legally has to do is verbally give his name and date of birth, that's it! Looking at how out of control the police officer was, then that is all he would be getting from me.

Too many people prepared to give up their rights, use them or lose them.

But I have nothing to hide so I would give them all the information they need

[golf]

All he legally has to do is verbally give his name and date of birth, that's it! Looking at how out of control the police officer was, then that is all he would be getting from me.

Too many people prepared to give up their rights, use them or lose them.

Also by giving them all the information they need it would probably save me having to make a trip to the station at a later date to produce anything they wanted to see.

[Captain Morgan]

Hi Capt,

Re point A, no it is not acceptable to anyone.

B, he had not ID'd himself as then the officer would have known who he was, though now it is known that the police believed that the drivers was this males disqualified cousin.

C, no attempt to leave, though and as stated previously in this thread, the male was wanting to and acheiving a wind up, as he has in previous filmings posted on facebook or the internet. Is this the society we want?

I realise not all is black or white but surely we should and must respect the officers of the law who have a thankless task day in and out without the need for scrutiny from us who the closest we get to their lives is watching hetty wainthrop. :-)

Regards.

Keith

So we could say that there was mistaken identity on the behalf of the police then, did they start the interaction with the preconception that it was the drivers cousin behind the wheel, who knows we are missing some salient detail.

Does this individual have a history with the police that leads him to film his interactions with the either for self protection or to antagonise them again I don't know, and to be honest I don't care, the chap was sat in the car making no attempt to leave the scene, in my view the officer involved acted very poorly.

Respect is earned and is not a rite. I expect a police officer to hold a higher standard than public citizens, if they are not prepared to do so they can hardly expect us to treat them with the respect they want.


Off to bed now.

[Tooks]

We police by consent in this country, some police officers occasionally forget that.

[carlyrox]

So we could say that there was mistaken identity on the behalf of the police then, did they start the interaction with the preconception that it was the drivers cousin behind the wheel, who knows we are missing some salient detail.

Does this individual have a history with the police that leads him to film his interactions with the either for self protection or to antagonise them again I don't know, and to be honest I don't care, the chap was sat in the car making no attempt to leave the scene, in my view the officer involved acted very poorly.

Respect is earned and is not a rite. I expect a police officer to hold a higher standard than public citizens, if they are not prepared to do so they can hardly expect us to treat them with the respect they want.


Off to bed now.

Capt.

We all deal with situations in our own way, we did not see the start to this episode and I for one do not think we will, though I would rather come down on the side of the officer than the cousin of the disqualified driver.

Only those there will really know the true and full story, though again I think whatever the outcome there will be one Bobby and possibly family, who tonight and for the forseeable future will be fretting over a possible dismissal, though I do hope not.

Regards.

Keith.

[millie-mail]

But I have nothing to hide so I would give them all the information they need

The fact that you have nothing to hide should have no bearing on whether you give them all the information they need. It is not about the info they say they need, it is about the info that you are legally obliged to provide. The police can ask you for your birth certificate, marriage certificate and proof of any previous convictions, ccj's and pending court appearances. You are not legally obliged to provide them but they can ask! Who would want their info in a report logged on file to go who knows where? I personally don't but if you belong to the group who thinks that innocence includes giving up all your info and rights then that is up to you.

Are you intimating that faced with a threat similar to the policeman in the video, who was practically foaming at the mouth, that we should just give them all the information they need whether it is a legal requirement or not. That is abuse of the uniform (colour of law)

So you have nothing to hide and are prepared to be abused and have your rights violated in order to prove it. Fair enough that is also your right.

[Captain Morgan]

Capt.

We all deal with situations in our own way, we did not see the start to this episode and I for one do not think we will, though I would rather come down on the side of the officer than the cousin of the disqualified driver.

Only those there will really know the true and full story, though again I think whatever the outcome there will be one Bobby and possibly family, who tonight and for the forseeable future will be fretting over a possible dismissal, though I do hope not.

Regards.

Keith.

I agree that we won't see the video from the start, the sooner we have bodycams on officers the better, I hope that the truth comes out I'm sure that being in Camden there will have been a volume of witnesses.

Unfortunately due to the officers behaviour i couldn't join you in his assumed innocence, time as they say will tell.

[millie-mail]

We police by consent in this country, some police officers occasionally forget that.

We are policed by consent and I believe that refers to the acts and statutes passed by parliament, so the M.P.'s who pass the acts and the magistrates who enforce them are the ones who consent on our behalf. I might need a lawyer at this stage.

[carlyrox]

Well another day in this crazy world where we all live as individuals, thank which ever God you follow.

Definitely Bed for me.

Goodnight all.

Keith

[Tooks]

We are policed by consent and I believe that refers to the acts and statutes passed by parliament, so the M.P.'s who pass the acts and the magistrates who enforce them are the ones who consent on our behalf. I might need a lawyer at this stage.

There is a home office definition of policing by consent;

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ing-by-consent

But, this sums it up for me;

Policing by consent" is the phrase used to describe this. It expresses that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a general consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, their integrity in exercising those powers and their accountability for doing so.

I did 10 years in the Home Office, it was a regular topic of discussion.

[millie-mail]

There is a home office definition of policing by consent;

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ing-by-consent

But, this sums it up for me;



I did 10 years in the Home Office, it was a regular topic of discussion.

Thanks for that, I didn't know it existed, very interesting although having read it I am not sure I understand it fully. If we the public are not allowed to withdraw our consent, then at which point did we grant it, (on an individual basis) Or is just being a member of this society, consent in itself.

The definition I gave was given to me by an old friend who was, you guessed it, a policeman!

[golf]

The fact that you have nothing to hide should have no bearing on whether you give them all the information they need. It is not about the info they say they need, it is about the info that you are legally obliged to provide. The police can ask you for your birth certificate, marriage certificate and proof of any previous convictions, ccj's and pending court appearances. You are not legally obliged to provide them but they can ask! Who would want their info in a report logged on file to go who knows where? I personally don't but if you belong to the group who thinks that innocence includes giving up all your info and rights then that is up to you.

Are you intimating that faced with a threat similar to the policeman in the video, who was practically foaming at the mouth, that we should just give them all the information they need whether it is a legal requirement or not. That is abuse of the uniform (colour of law)

So you have nothing to hide and are prepared to be abused and have your rights violated in order to prove it. Fair enough that is also your right.

I understand what you are saying but legally obliged or not buy not giving them the information they ask is just being a plain awkward sod! imo I don't think I would ever have to deal with an irate officer as he wouldn't have been wound up by me trying to be a smart ass. If I was being face with that level of force by the police I have a say I put myself in that situation.

There would probably be no need to put a report anywhere as it would be an incident to report.

It will probably come out that the car has a marker against it through his cousin driving it in the past while disqualified. I feel safer knowing the police are a least trying to stop idiots like his cousin and others. These are the kind of people that hit mine and other people's cars and drive off. My rights would not have been violated as I would want to make any dealings have with the police over as soon as possible. By giving them my information it's smiles all round I would be on with my business with no fuss and the police officer can get on with looking for the criminal he seeks.

Take what they are doing for what it is. It's their job these men and women make our country a safer place by risking their lives day in day out and have enough to do without people being awkward cause it my rights in it.

[Saint-Just]

Exercising your rights is not being awkward. It is reminding them that Parliament has defined what you are obliged to tell them and that is where your obligations stop. As for the fact that the video only shows a very limited portion of the incident, there maybe some editing [thus assuming guilt as we have no evidence]. But it could also be that there was no premeditation from the driver and that he only took out his phone and started filming when the police lost it and there was no chance anyone would believe him.

[golf]

Exercising your rights is not being awkward. It is reminding them that Parliament has defined what you are obliged to tell them and that is where your obligations stop. As for the fact that the video only shows a very limited portion of the incident, there maybe some editing [thus assuming guilt as we have no evidence]. But it could also be that there was no premeditation from the driver and that he only took out his phone and started filming when the police lost it and there was no chance anyone would believe him.

But is dose not make life any easier for myself or the officer! There is no other reason not to give it to them. Let's me get on with my life and them on with their job.
People only cooperate with the police when they need them.
If you where robbed you would give them your details as it suits you , you need their help
If giving them my details helps them get on with their already difficult job what's the big deal?

[Roy_Drage]

I would have started to film the officer and my responses would be simply "Do I need a lawyer?" over and over again, I would not produce a driving license or any other identification as I'm not legally obligated to.

If they asked me to take a breath test, I'd do so as I'd be legally obligated to. I'd do all of this based on many many conversations with police officers and all of the legal advice I've had over the years.

Have a look at Section 164 RTA 1988

[golf]

Captain,

I was asking for your answer on this

Answer this please

If you refuse to identify yourself to a police officer and they suspect you of a crime, in this case a band driver the only other option open to them is to arrest you Till they can identify you
If you lock yourself in the car how are they ment to stop you leaving and arrest you?

[Saint-Just]

It is my choice to give them my details, or not. In this case you may disagree with whatever choice the driver made [I remind you that the only fact we know is that he refused to step out of the car but he protested his innocence against a false accusation by the officer, stating he was nos disqualified, had insurance and license] but he was entitled to make that choice. The police lost it, accept it snd move on: even if the guy had committed an offence [at the moment we have to consider that he didn't as no charge have been held] the officer would still need to be disciplined for bringing the force in disrepute by his lack of professionalism. I for one will not be sorry to see him off the street as that kind of individual makes me feel less safe rather than more. It could have been my wife driving.

[patrick]

Captain,

I was asking for your answer on this

Answer this please

If you refuse to identify yourself to a police officer and they suspect you of a crime, in this case a band driver the only other option open to them is to arrest you Till they can identify you
If you lock yourself in the car how are they ment to stop you leaving and arrest you?

If you had watched the full video,the driver assures the officer he isn't going to attempt to drive away,and puts his ignition key on the dashboard.If you watch any of the many police documentaries on TV at the moment, http://www.policeinterceptors.co.uk/ officers suffer cases of extreme provocation and don't react as this particular officer did.