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View Poll Results: Old Tuna: Rare Delicacy or Rancid Liability

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  • Delicacy

    43 81.13%
  • Rancid

    10 18.87%
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Thread: Old Tuna: Rare or Rancid? (update: decided!)

  1. #1

    Old Tuna: Rare or Rancid? (update: decided!)

    Considering, as all watch collectors eventually will, a Seiko tuna.

    The latest ones with the X on the crown are not for me. Quite who the person was (presumably in marketing) who decided that an historic design would be 'improved' by the substitution of the excellent "S" milled crown with a limply etched X branding abomination I don't know, but I'd like him or her to reconsider. Perhaps they could show their genius idea to Ikuo Tokunaga. Although he deserves a peaceful retirement uninterrupted by the miserable desecration of his iconic design.

    With that Prince Charles-like rant over with, here's my current thinking. Buy a 7549-7010. The original quartz (I think) tuna. Looks like this, as a likely-unnecessary reminder:



    I've seen lots around and some seem in excellent condition. But they are all 30~ years old so likely need at least new gaskets. I understand these are available. Hands and dial might be on the turn too. I have an 80s Seiko 7548-7000 in original condition though and it all works fine, so perhaps I am over concerned?

    The alternate contender is the SBBN013. Picture from Monochrome:



    I can still find these NOS and guaranteed, the last "Darth" without the dreaded X I believe. State of the tuna art, no worries, and surely will outlast me.

    I like the aesthetics equally for both models. The price differences aren't material. It's just a case of older or new. Does anyone have both? Is so, which would you keep if forced to choose? Thanks for any input.

    Paul
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 18th September 2016 at 15:50. Reason: decided

  2. #2
    Master ordo's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about a 30(ish) years old watch. If you get it in good condition chances are you won't have to do much reconditioning. As for the gaskets, if I found a good watch that needed ONLY the gaskets replaced I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

    I'd say go for it. You might be amazed by how much these watches can take. They're resilient... Just because it's a quartz doesn't mean it's easier to break down.

  3. #3
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    I think the older would keep you happier for longer Paul. It just seems to have a bit more character - not that any tuna is short in the character stakes . I know what you mean about the X though, I'm only just getting used to it.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  4. #4
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Paul, there are quite a few photos on my blog of vintage Tunas. If you have a look at them and still can't make up your mind I'll be quite surprised.

  5. #5
    Thanks all, and Tony, of course - I'll take a look. I actually like all of them which doesn't help. The black one does carry the risk I might inadvertently refer to it as "this bad boy" at some point though

  6. #6
    Master mycroft's Avatar
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    Black Tunas just seem so 'right', somehow - so that's what I'd go for...

    Simon

  7. #7
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    As a general principal, there can never be anything wrong with hunting out an older version, closer to (or actually) the original design.
    The great design choices were made there, and only there. What comes later is only venerating and validating the earlier design.
    Go original.
    You clearly have a full appreciation of it, and a natural repugnance certain (X) changes, so I think you know what you need to be looking for.
    I am no expert on them but I am sure there is a wealth of expertise out there to help you maintain the older version too, so no need to be fearful of that.

    Dave

  8. #8
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    Thanks all, and Tony, of course - I'll take a look. I actually like all of them which doesn't help. The black one does carry the risk I might inadvertently refer to it as "this bad boy" at some point though
    Do you wear black watches generally?
    I have a long (and costly) history of seeing black watches, falling in love with them, buying them, not wearing them then selling them for less than I paid.
    For me, that SBBN013 is a strong candidate for that kind of behaviour.

  9. #9
    A vintage quartz Tuna is a horological rubicon. Beyond reason and beyond redemption.

    Edit: Umm, should I have added some kind of emoticon to indicate I was joking.
    Last edited by forpetesake; 15th September 2016 at 11:17.

  10. #10
    Master JackW's Avatar
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    I've owned both old and new, and I agree they're lovely watches. I used my vintage one to go swimming without hesitation. Having said that: may I introduce another contender? For me the SBBN015 is the ultimate Tuna: recent enough to find one in excellent condition (I think Tunas look better when they're not too battered), but with the 'right' Tuna looks.

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    I want one I think but can't decide how it will look on my wrist - will it be too much....

  12. #12
    Not a fan of black usually - just irritates me when the coating scratches. But this ceramic one is a different beast entirely. I personally think Tuna's should be quartz - though the spring drive ones look amazing.

  13. #13
    Master
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    As long as it's not still wearing its original gaskets and the case back sealing surface has corroded you should be good. I'd look for one with good original hands and lume and then be pretty confident that the insides were in similar condition. With good sealing surfaces there's no reason this 30+ year old watch couldn't be restored to it's original (and very conservative) 300m WR rating.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackW View Post
    I've owned both old and new, and I agree they're lovely watches. I used my vintage one to go swimming without hesitation. Having said that: may I introduce another contender? For me the SBBN015 is the ultimate Tuna: recent enough to find one in excellent condition (I think Tunas look better when they're not too battered), but with the 'right' Tuna looks.
    Agreed. Classic looks but with super lume, a great bracelet and all the other benefits of a modern watch. Plus last time I looked on Creation they still had some new stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by RayTango View Post
    I want one I think but can't decide how it will look on my wrist - will it be too much....
    They wear much smaller than the dimensions would suggest due to the relatively short distance between the lugs. If you have skinny wrists and are Tuna curious then buy a 7549-7010 like the one in the op's first pic which is the smallest one. If that's too big then flip it and you won't lose a penny.
    Last edited by Dynam0humm; 16th September 2016 at 02:50.

  14. #14
    Tried the black one on today. Surprisingly easy to wear, not too big at all. Quite thick though. The ultimate modern tuna (without the X) perhaps. Did I mention I don't like the X? Hateful thing. I saw rows of the recent Prospex releases in a case, each sporting the miserable cross like a cheap brooch on an expensive suit. An embarrassing display.

    What comes later is only venerating and validating the earlier design
    Nicely put. The poll is trending firmly towards vintage, and I think I am too.

    Paul

  15. #15
    Craftsman
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    It's worth remembering that the 7549 movement was phased out quite a while ago so spares are hard to find, although you can use 7548s as donors.

    The more recent 7c46 movement is still current and was used in both the previous gen 300m (with the S crown) and the one before (with the plain crown). I would choose one of those if you want a steel tuna rather than a vintage, but that's just me.

    I have a SBBN017 (with the steel bezel) and and an older golden tuna so am a big fan of both the 300m and 1000m tunas. If you want a black bezel then the SBBN015 as mentioned has te same look as the vintage but an up to date moment and some other now updates.

  16. #16
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momentum View Post
    It's worth remembering that the 7549 movement was phased out quite a while ago so spares are hard to find, although you can use 7548s as donors.
    You can use 7548's or even 7546's to harvest some replacement parts, but not as a donor movement as non of the hands will fit. The canon pinion and hour wheel are a much greater diameter, and the centre wheel (for the seconds hand) is longer in length - these parts are impossible to find now.

  17. #17
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynam0humm View Post
    With good sealing surfaces there's no reason this 30+ year old watch couldn't be restored to it's original (and very conservative) 300m WR rating.
    The 300m rating isn't as conservative as you'd think, against my advice and for no particular reason I could think of a customer wanted me to pressure test his 7549-7010 to 600m after I'd serviced it and replaced the seals. Fed up with trying to dissuade him I agreed to do it with the proviso if anything failed I'd bear no liability. I pressurised it to 60bar (fortunately without the movement fitted) and every thing seemed fine with no leaks or condensation on the warming plate afterwards. However when I went to remove the caseback it was dished in so far that had the movement been fitted it would without a doubt have crushed the circuit and bent the mainplate!

  18. #18
    Ah, more to consider there, thank you gentlemen. That was my concern about an older one. Catching the right tuna is proving challenging. I will ponder some more. Fortunately the enjoyment of fishing is in the anticipation.

  19. #19
    Master dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Do you wear black watches generally?
    I have a long (and costly) history of seeing black watches, falling in love with them, buying them, not wearing them then selling them for less than I paid.
    For me, that SBBN013 is a strong candidate for that kind of behaviour.
    Oh god this rings too close to home for me. Damasko, Seiko...there are some pieces from these two that I've owned that are just made to come in black, but I never find myself wearing them. I've flipped every black watch I've ever owned.

  20. #20
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    Considering, as all watch collectors eventually will, a Seiko tuna.

    The latest ones with the X on the crown are not for me. Quite who the person was (presumably in marketing) who decided that an historic design would be 'improved' by the substitution of the excellent "S" milled crown with a limply etched X branding abomination I don't know, but I'd like him or her to reconsider. Perhaps they could show their genius idea to Ikuo Tokunaga. Although he deserves a peaceful retirement uninterrupted by the miserable desecration of his iconic design.
    I would not have said better!

    I have always loved my 015, but the more new Tunas (& Seiko's) I see the more I love it!

    Seiko are now looking like a marketing/fashion oriented brand more and more...it seems that gone are the days of true, professional, function over form watches.

    I had an 013 and loved it to bits. I prefer the 015 for the fact that it comes with a bracelet (one of the best Seiko bracelets ever for me) and the fact that it can always be refinished after years of harsh service I put it through. It is my go to diving watch.

    Good luck & go for it.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy13 View Post
    Seiko are now looking like a marketing/fashion oriented brand more and more...it seems that gone are the days of true, professional, function over form watches.
    That is an interesting remark. Though fully aware that the Tuna range are for me unwearable, they have an unshakable and enduring appeal which has proven to be only just resistible. Other models though admittedly upmarket which had a similar effect including the 4S36 SARN GMT and 6S37 Flightmaster have long been withdrawn with the latter calibre now only available inside a Credor case. Hardcore, over-engineered authenticity seems lacking in most of current mid-range offerings populated with 6R series derived movements behind pretty dials. They just leave me cold.
    Today I ordered a Landmaster SBDW005 whilst I could.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    Today I ordered a Landmaster SBDW005 whilst I could.
    If you're not wearing a suit, it is all you could ever need.



    Wearing my 7548-7000 today.



    Must admit I have no qualms about its age. But do I need it in a tuna can too?
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 10th December 2017 at 22:42.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JackW View Post
    For me the SBBN015 is the ultimate Tuna: recent enough to find one in excellent condition (I think Tunas look better when they're not too battered), but with the 'right' Tuna looks.
    They are near perfect but unfortunately the most recent ones (and the same is true for the SBBN017) came fitted with the hateful X crown. If I could stand that, I'd get one of the later models. If I have to get an old one, it's an SBBN011/013 or 7549 I think. Though I'm currently circling a 7C46-7008 with interest

  24. #24
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    They are near perfect but unfortunately the most recent ones (and the same is true for the SBBN017) came fitted with the hateful X crown. If I could stand that, I'd get one of the later models. If I have to get an old one, it's an SBBN011/013 or 7549 I think. Though I'm currently circling a 7C46-7008 with interest
    I think the 15 and 17 both came with the lovely S crown but are both discontinued. The latest models (33 and 35?) Have the X crown and the new style hands. But the golden tuna is awesome in an 80s kinds way. I love mine!

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by momentum View Post
    I think the 15 and 17 both came with the lovely S crown but are both discontinued
    They were originally fitted with the S crown but the last models sold of both the 15 and 17 came with the Prospex crown. Buyer beware.

    Paul

  26. #26
    Craftsman
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    I've got a 7549-7010 that I brought on here about 5 years ago. It stopped me wearing all my other watches for ages! I got comments about it more than any other watch I wore. I had the seals replaced about a year ago at not too great an expense and for some reason (g shocks) have hardly worn it since. I must get it back on my wrist....

  27. #27
    Master deerworrier's Avatar
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    owned loads of tunas over the years from the 300m to the springdrive edition but my favourite was always the vintage gold tuna, followed closely but the blue ltd edition. loved them but lack of lugs and broad flat wrist mean its a bugger to wear right. luckily John at TST made my 7548 into a tuna :) the 2 goldies i have owned and 1 of the tst.





    and the oil filled tst...


  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    If you're not wearing a suit, it is all you could ever need.
    Your enthusiasm is infectious Paul. I have a good feeling about this one.

    Be it Landmaster or Tuna, these 'professional, function over form watches' (thanks Buddy13) have 'similar' DNA traits. There's a single-mindedness, going beyond 'good enough' (thanks Huertecilla) obsessiveness, even geekiness which sets them apart.

    If you hardly ever wear a suit, have grown tired of babying pretty watches, drive a truck and usually have dirt under your finger nails, one of these might be for you.

  29. #29
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    They were originally fitted with the S crown but the last models sold of both the 15 and 17 came with the Prospex crown. Buyer beware.

    Paul
    I didn't know that - bad move and agree the S crown is much nicer. The 11 has a plain crown which I would take over the X crown.

  30. #30
    Finally decided, after much to and fro. Appreciate all the input. Decided to try the newer movement, 7C46, and something a little different from my usual shiny steel divers.



    A new SBBN013 will be arriving shortly. Found a seller with one in stock, so it will be guaranteed and unused. The only sign of the dismal X is on the outside of the box, which the later ones all come in. The crown is the nice "S".

    Paul

  31. #31
    Craftsman
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    Awesome watch! I saw that Seiko strapped some of these to a ROV and sent them down to see when they failed. They failed at something like 3500m (can't remember so apologies if the number is wrong). Such a unique design and so overbuilt.

  32. #32
    Master
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    Awesome watch. Here is a link to the video mentioned: http://oceanictime.blogspot.de/2015/...water.html?m=1

  33. #33
    It has arrived. Perhaps one of the last SBBN013's sold new? Instant wrist-shot:



    Bezel rotates smoothly and lines up. Lume is evenly applied. Second hand hits the markers. Size seems fine. It is an impressive thing. I have a recent Japanese book on the history of the Seiko divers and it has some info I don't think I have seen in English. I may wrap some of it together in a post later.

    Thank you again for all the feedback.

    Paul
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 24th September 2016 at 11:49.

  34. #34
    Master JackW's Avatar
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    Very nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    I have a recent Japanese book on the history of the Seiko divers and it has some info I don't think I have seen in English. I may wrap some of it together in a post later.
    Looking forward to that.

  35. #35
    In a moment of madness I sold the SBBN013 (for £400) and of course now they are hard to find and everything newer has an X on it. When I saw this one recently, fresh from a full Seiko service, I pounced. Not 600m, but I suspect sufficient...



    The service included the usual battery, crown, spring bars and gaskets replacement plus the movement was serviced and current draw checked. To pass the pressure test it needed a new case back. This added ¥8,100 to the ¥16,000 service cost:



    The old caseback was returned. It looks fine to my untrained eye, no wear visible. It is dated 1992 though so perhaps a precaution. Anyway, it's all fixed up now...





    I'll try not to give this one away...
    Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 12th December 2017 at 22:41. Reason: day fix :-)

  36. #36
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    That looks the business!

    Never sampled one before but I think I could develop a taste for Tuna...

  37. #37
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post



    I'll try not to give this one away...
    Spectacular, I can fully understand the attraction.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  38. #38
    Master
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    Cool

    Very nice indeed,what is ref for that please.

  39. #39
    Craftsman
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    Such a different watch and on my target list

    Sent from my SM-G955F using TZ-UK mobile app

  40. #40
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Damn it, Paul. I want another '007 now
    Last edited by learningtofly; 10th December 2017 at 22:55.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.f View Post
    Very nice indeed,what is ref for that please.
    It's the SBBN007. The differences between this and some of the other 300m versions is (cribbed from a WUS post):

    ...the 7549 is the one with the dial that has no rings around the dots, has a polished shroud, and regular screws securing the shroud (it's on its original vintage flat vent strap as well). The SBBN007 has rings around the 6/9/12 hour markers, has a satin finish to its shroud, and has regular screws securing the shroud. The SBBN015 does not have rings around the hour markers, has "Marinemaster on the dial," has a signed crown, and has hex screws securing the shroud.
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Damn it, Paul. I want another '013 now
    Fairly sure your photos have invoked Captain Ahab-like tuna obsession in many, sir. I shouldn't have so easily thrown the 013 I caught back into the sea, but its replacement feels like a tasty catch. Back on the rubber strap at the moment, and seems perfect.

  42. #42
    Master
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    Thanks.👍

  43. #43
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei View Post
    It's the SBBN007. The differences between this and some of the other 300m versions is (cribbed from a WUS post):

    Fairly sure your photos have invoked Captain Ahab-like tuna obsession in many, sir. I shouldn't have so easily thrown the 013 I caught back into the sea, but its replacement feels like a tasty catch. Back on the rubber strap at the moment, and seems perfect.
    Yes, I meant the 007, of course. And you do make a fair point - karma's a bitch.

  44. #44
    Grand Master
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    I am always on the lookout for a nice one like the Darth
    RIAC

  45. #45
    Master
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    Now on the hunt for one of these.😳

  46. #46
    Master bazza.'s Avatar
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    I have a 30 year old SBBN007 and it still looks great plus today waiting for me at home a SBBN013 Darth Tuna just turned up :)

  47. #47
    Master bazza.'s Avatar
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    Short video of Seiko testing the WR of the 1000m tuna models
    https://youtu.be/CBa-NrO5xqM

  48. #48
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    I just recently got the next best thing



    The Uncle Seiko waffle strap is on its way, the bracelet from a Seiko Monster Compass SRP445 has arrived and been fitted …



    And the Crystal Times sapphire with blue AR has been delivered and I'll be getting Duncan to fit it, along with a new battery and pressure test, in the New Year

    I had a WTB for a 007 going but nothing doing

  49. #49
    Rare tuna cannot go rancid - too good to let it go to waste, much like your wristwatch!

  50. #50
    Master bazza.'s Avatar
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    Just ordered some of these for my 007

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