Smart and connected homes... What have you got?

[sprite1275]

I do agree with the above with such things as cameras, microphones and smart locks. For lights and heating its too bad but then again i suppose someone could know if your out or gone on holiday if they hacked into your system. Ive decided to cancel my amazon dot order but more for it probably being more of a 'fun at first' gadget and also not wanting to buy more into Amazons eco system.

[Wolfie]

To you tecky nerds rushing out to automatic and connect everything up so you can use your phone to do things like flush the toilet! ;-)

https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram...2016/0815.html

"On the Internet of Things, integrity and availability threats are much worse than confidentiality threats. It's one thing if your smart door lock can be eavesdropped upon to know who is home. It's another thing entirely if it can be hacked to allow a burglar to open the door -- or prevent you from opening your door. A hacker who can deny you control of your car, or take over control, is much more dangerous than one who can eavesdrop on your conversations or track your car's location.

With the advent of the Internet of Things and cyber-physical systems in general, we've given the Internet hands and feet: the ability to directly affect the physical world. What used to be attacks against data and information have become attacks against flesh, steel, and concrete......."

IMHO worth a read.

Yep... no doubt it's an area of concern, but, the security from proper companies should be very strong in this regard... one bad PR story and you're toast

[Wolfie]

I do agree with the above with such things as cameras, microphones and smart locks. For lights and heating its too bad but then again i suppose someone could know if your out or gone on holiday if they hacked into your system. Ive decided to cancel my amazon dot order but more for it probably being more of a 'fun at first' gadget and also not wanting to buy more into Amazons eco system.

Amazon echo is a pretty open platform i.e. A lot of companies are getting their kit to work on their platform so, you're not obliged to have everything smart from Amazon, just that it is compatible with Amazon...

[AndyMilts]

My Echo arrived yesterday and I love it, think it really could more things forward and become the central management hub for all smart stuff. Don't believe too much of the scare mongering on security there have huge jumps forward and can't wait to see what comes next

[dizz]

My Echo arrived yesterday and I love it, think it really could more things forward and become the central management hub for all smart stuff. Don't believe too much of the scare mongering on security there have huge jumps forward and can't wait to see what comes next

How did you get that, I'm being told another three weeks before delivery.

[Neil.C]

To you tecky nerds rushing out to automatic and connect everything up so you can use your phone to do things like flush the toilet! ;-)

https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram...2016/0815.html

"On the Internet of Things, integrity and availability threats are much worse than confidentiality threats. It's one thing if your smart door lock can be eavesdropped upon to know who is home. It's another thing entirely if it can be hacked to allow a burglar to open the door -- or prevent you from opening your door. A hacker who can deny you control of your car, or take over control, is much more dangerous than one who can eavesdrop on your conversations or track your car's location.

With the advent of the Internet of Things and cyber-physical systems in general, we've given the Internet hands and feet: the ability to directly affect the physical world. What used to be attacks against data and information have become attacks against flesh, steel, and concrete......."

IMHO worth a read.

Very interesting read and exactly what I was banging on about earlier in the thread.

Once you get into this automated stuff hackers will appear and instead of burglars having to try and break through multiple locking systems they will just go......click.

[Gyp]

How did you get that, I'm being told another three weeks before delivery.

The Echo came out yesterday, the dot is three weeks away

[dizz]

The Echo came out yesterday, the dot is three weeks away

Dam! ....I'll just have to wait then.


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[catflap]

My Echo arrived on Wednesday but it's still in the box as I'm not sure if I will
keep it. Reading on the impending google version and I'm sure Apple must be looking to launch something with Siri along these lines.

So please Convince me I need this!!! :-)

[AndyMilts]

My Echo arrived on Wednesday but it's still in the box as I'm not sure if I will
keep it. Reading on the impending google version and I'm sure Apple must be looking to launch something with Siri along these lines.

So please Convince me I need this!!! :-)

Mine arrived on Wednesday too and think it's awesome, control the thermostat set up tonight, plays all my music a little work around, has has become the timer, radio, iPod, jokes, kids love it, shopping list taker and think there will be more Alexa will do for us. Really good technology.

[ptcoll]

Just be careful, and make sure you understand what you are building into your home network:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37504719

Pete

[ptcoll]

And for the techies:

https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/40397.html

Pete

[Gyp]

My Echo arrived on Wednesday but it's still in the box as I'm not sure if I will
keep it. Reading on the impending google version and I'm sure Apple must be looking to launch something with Siri along these lines.

So please Convince me I need this!!! :-)

If you decide not, could you let me know as the missus has decided she'd prefer two Echos rather than Echo and a Dot.

[Neil.C]

Just be careful, and make sure you understand what you are building into your home network:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37504719

Pete

Interesting Pete, and the main reason I can't see the point of these useless gewgaws with all the security hazards that accompany them - but that won't stop techies getting all excited about them.

It's not as if they are doing anything that can't be accomplished just as easily using normal methods.

[AndyMilts]

Just be careful, and make sure you understand what you are building into your home network:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37504719

Pete

If people add basic security to their devices and some band width management it's probably not that hard to stop these things happening. I remember when I first got a mobile phone being told it would never catch on and they were dangerous look at us now, this is happening may as well get on board Luddites

We have had a nest thermostat for two years and despite some reservations it's been great our heating bill has dropped by 20% which is amazing as the wife has been home more with the smallest one turning up, it also has the added Benefit of being able to turn the heating off when the in laws are baby sitting

[Carlton-Browne]

And for the techies:

https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/40397.html

Pete

That really is rather interesting - buy a black box device and inadvertently install a back door into your home network. I tend to block devices on the broadband router to stop them talking to the outside world where it's appropriate (WiFi printer, NAS storage etc).

[RobDad]

Isn't most of this 'smart home' stuff the answer to a problem that doesn't exist? - I moved into a new (to me) house last year, which needed a new boiler and the heating system upgraded - and came to the conclusion (along with every heating engineer I met) that for most of the population all this 'smart' stuff is a good way to flush money down the toilet on gadgets. I spent the money on the most efficient boiler I could find and the rest on the gas/electricity bills instead!

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[sprite1275]

All this 'smart stuff' is more about convenience and ease of use. You either want it or you dont, I think most people want it/would have it but at the moment it's pricey.

[Nogbad The Bad]

Very interesting read and exactly what I was banging on about earlier in the thread.

Once you get into this automated stuff hackers will appear and instead of burglars having to try and break through multiple locking systems they will just go......click.

When I replace my Apple Time Capsule that acts as an access-point, I'll be replacing it with something that I can have multiple Wi-Fi networks on different subnets and then create an IoT subnet to house my IoT gear.

UniFi AC access-points look good :-

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-pro/

[mattbeef]

UniFi stuff is good but will take some setting up to get right especially with iOS devices.

Check the forums for help of drop me a PM if needs be. I am by no means an expert but have set plenty of these up before at work and sorted issues clients have

[Nogbad The Bad]

UniFi stuff is good but will take some setting up to get right especially with iOS devices.

Check the forums for help of drop me a PM if needs be. I am by no means an expert but have set plenty of these up before at work and sorted issues clients have

Thanks for the offer Matt, I should be fine as I'm a Network Engineer by trade, I'm more used to setting up Cisco network equipment.

Just recently started using pfSense at home ( it supports VLANS ) and I have to say it rocks

https://www.pfsense.org

[mattbeef]

If you are a Cisco guy then i think you will be fine then
We do UniFi as no one is Cisco certified and we can give some end users access without making too much of a mess.

One thing that stops me from using pfSesne is the fact that im with sky and there is no fiber

[markrlondon]

To you tecky nerds rushing out to automatic and connect everything up so you can use your phone to do things like flush the toilet! ;-)

https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram...2016/0815.html

"On the Internet of Things, integrity and availability threats are much worse than confidentiality threats. It's one thing if your smart door lock can be eavesdropped upon to know who is home. It's another thing entirely if it can be hacked to allow a burglar to open the door -- or prevent you from opening your door. A hacker who can deny you control of your car, or take over control, is much more dangerous than one who can eavesdrop on your conversations or track your car's location.

With the advent of the Internet of Things and cyber-physical systems in general, we've given the Internet hands and feet: the ability to directly affect the physical world. What used to be attacks against data and information have become attacks against flesh, steel, and concrete......."

IMHO worth a read.

Indeed. The more people who point this out the better.

It won't matter though. Convenience outweighs risk for most people (an emotional reaction), even if they recognise the risk (an intellectual reaction). Emotion always wins over intellect.

[Wolfie]

Google Home Assistant...

Extremely similar to Amazon echo... looks intereting...

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/google-home-okay-launch

[zanderpants]

That looks superb, Will be getting that as soon as it becomes available in the UK.

I am just about to buy a new front door and the Yale lock you posted later in the thread is an optional extra I will be getting.

I like gadgets/automation etc if I can actually see a use for it. Nest looks like something I will do shortly but not sure I see a real point to the lighting systems.

Hi Andy...

August look good

http://august.com

Not sure if they can used in the uk yet

I am working with Yale at the moment as they have a solution that will cover most of the U.K. requirements and should be launching before the end of the year...

Ben

[wombleh]

Good money to be made from infecting central heating with crimeware, imagine in the middle of a cold winter you have to pay 1 bitcoin to get your heating back:
http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/re...art-thermostat

I like the idea of being able to turn on the heating remotely before coming back from holiday, but not seen any other smart home features that particularly interest me. Possibly having smart TRV to manage the heat in various rooms, but if the gel-based ones worked a bit better then that'd be unnecessary.

I work in IT security and on SCADA/ICS, there is no chance of me using a smart lock on my house in the near future!

[markrlondon]

I work in IT security and on SCADA/ICS, there is no chance of me using a smart lock on my house in the near future!

Indeed.

[jcm3]

For you Alexa fans: Amazon Music Unlimited launches today, and its <$7/month for Prime Members, and only $4/mo if you listen on an Echo. https://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/pro...MusicUnlimited …

[rincewind]

I work in IT security and on SCADA/ICS, there is no chance of me using a smart lock on my house in the near future!

Why? Surely all this demonstrates is that the security architecture you've applied to your SCADA solution is flawed. If your SCADA solution was secured using a dedicated enterprise level PKI would that change your view?

[wombleh]

Why? Surely all this demonstrates is that the security architecture you've applied to your SCADA solution is flawed. If your SCADA solution was secured using a dedicated enterprise level PKI would that change your view?

I was lying in bed last night wondering if I'd locked the door and wishing I had a sensor on it to save me walking downstairs, so I am a bit of a hypocrite.

I wouldn't trust SCADA with my front door lock because the products, protocols and software are all designed or evolved without security in mind. Most IOT devices won't have the power to manage certificates or do other layers of security. The vendors have shown repeatedly that they don't really care about security and most customers don't seem to either. All IT software gets rushed out the door to meet deadlines full of bugs and then patched later, but I bet most IOT will never be patched. Even if the SCADA side was completely secure, it's controlled by a mobile phone which is easily compromised via links, texts, baseband attacks, etc only it now opens your doors.

As you mention you can protect SCADA is with a strong layered security architecture but who is going to do that on their home system, most people wouldn't know where to begin. It can be done, e.g. secure keyswipe access, but it's expensive, complicated and IMO home devices will prioritise cost, power and easy of use above security.

[Agd47]

Starting to get interested in smart gadgets around the house. I have smart tvs and sonos but would like to get a nest set up with smoke detectors soon. Not keen on the phillips hue purely because I don't think it solves a problem that exists other than wanting a dimmer switch without the wiring.

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[sprite1275]

^^ hue lights are one of the best gadgets I've bought. Its the smart thermostats I'm struggling to justify to myself.

[Agd47]

My thoughts were that, and correct me if I'm wrong- they learn off your heating habits and adjust and monitor your heating accordingly which in turn saves you money. Lights other than dimming and being able to say alexa lights on only remove the pressing of a light switch. £50 for a bulb, are these going to save you any money compared with the equivalent led bulb? My sonos gives me music around the house with no wires and saved cost installing speaker cable. If hue does more than just on and off lights then I'd happily be a convert.

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[sprite1275]

The thing with learning thermostats is they turn on earlier to get temps up for when you arrive home etc. I've also heard of them turning on in the night. For us this would use a lot more energy than switching the heating on when arriving home or turning it on for a bit if we feel the need.

For me The hue lights are more about mood lighting which I love in our living room.

[solwisesteve]

The thing with learning thermostats is they turn on earlier to get temps up for when you arrive home etc. I've also heard of them turning on in the night. For us this would use a lot more energy than switching the heating on when arriving home or turning it on for a bit if we feel the need.

Agreed and is it really that bad to arrive home and then put the heating on? I mean it's not like it's -50!! Coping for half an hour until the place is warm is hardly hardship and, as you say, it actually SAVES money!

[eagletower]

Does anyone have the Honeywell EvoHome theromstats?

[wombleh]

I must confess to being a bit of a luddite with regards to smart central heating.

I can see the convenience angle of network connected heating controller so you can turn it on/off manually from a phone, but can't see it saving the initial purchase cost.

I struggle to see the point of the learning mode over just manually programming in a schedule. I wouldn't want it turning off every time my phone goes out of wifi signal as that doesn't necessarily indicate I've left the house for a long time or that nobody else is in the house who needs heat. It can't learn the times I'm stuck in traffic or have a day off because those aren't repeatable regular patterns that it will understand. Quite happy to be convinced that it's worthwhile but it seems like a marketing gimmick to me!

[Agd47]

I must confess to being a bit of a luddite with regards to smart central heating.

I can see the convenience angle of network connected heating controller so you can turn it on/off manually from a phone, but can't see it saving the initial purchase cost.

I struggle to see the point of the learning mode over just manually programming in a schedule. I wouldn't want it turning off every time my phone goes out of wifi signal as that doesn't necessarily indicate I've left the house for a long time or that nobody else is in the house who needs heat. It can't learn the times I'm stuck in traffic or have a day off because those aren't repeatable regular patterns that it will understand. Quite happy to be convinced that it's worthwhile but it seems like a marketing gimmick to me!

That is a different view point that I hadn't considered. Has been quoted depending on set up that it'll pay for itself after 1 or 2 years.



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[sprite1275]

I would say that's for homes that normally leave there heating switched on.

[eagletower]

The Honeywell Evo takes smart heating to another level. It allows you to control heating in rooms individually. Rather than heating up an entire house all the time.

Eg Kids playroom you may only want heated 9am-5pm , Guest bedrooms you may not want to heat up at all. bedrooms you may want to heat up in evening and just leave the living room on.

I'm quite interested to see other people's experiences with this as this really does sound like it could save you a packet.

[Agd47]

In my case I have a wireless thermostat that controls the heating but I don't have a 7 day programmer for some reason so once the timers set it'll be set for the whole week unless I switch it off. Obviously most people's routine will change at the weekend so the flexibility it would provide will benefit our house as well as being something I can myself. (When I say me I mean my brother)

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[Agd47]

Install myself

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[Agd47]

The Honeywell Evo takes smart heating to another level. It allows you to control heating in rooms individually. Rather than heating up an entire house all the time.

Eg Kids playroom you may only want heated 9am-5pm , Guest bedrooms you may not want to heat up at all. bedrooms you may want to heat up in evening and just leave the living room on.

I'm quite interested to see other people's experiences with this as this really does sound like it could save you a packet.

I'll have to check out that system, I hadn't heard of it till now.

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[Kingstepper]

The Honeywell Evo takes smart heating to another level. It allows you to control heating in rooms individually. Rather than heating up an entire house all the time.

Eg Kids playroom you may only want heated 9am-5pm , Guest bedrooms you may not want to heat up at all. bedrooms you may want to heat up in evening and just leave the living room on.

I'm quite interested to see other people's experiences with this as this really does sound like it could save you a packet.

Especially unwelcome ones.

[eagletower]

I'll have to check out that system, I hadn't heard of it till now.

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http://getconnected.honeywell.com/en/evohome

I've got Hive at the moment but if I move to a bigger house something like this make much more sense.

[Kingstepper]

I'll have to check out that system, I hadn't heard of it till now.

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Had to Google that SM-G925F too.

[Agd47]

Had to Google that SM-G925F too.

I never noticed that- Galaxy s6 edge

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[Wolfie]

I must confess to being a bit of a luddite with regards to smart central heating.

I can see the convenience angle of network connected heating controller so you can turn it on/off manually from a phone, but can't see it saving the initial purchase cost.

I struggle to see the point of the learning mode over just manually programming in a schedule. I wouldn't want it turning off every time my phone goes out of wifi signal as that doesn't necessarily indicate I've left the house for a long time or that nobody else is in the house who needs heat. It can't learn the times I'm stuck in traffic or have a day off because those aren't repeatable regular patterns that it will understand. Quite happy to be convinced that it's worthwhile but it seems like a marketing gimmick to me!

They don't all work though geofencing, but, can do... hive has a motion sensor, although I don't believe that's necessarily the best approach...

It is surprising how consistent we are in the way we use our home (most of us anyway), so, something that learns our movements is not an awful idea! You can always over ride it

[Gruntfuttock]

...
For full disclosure I have a brand new job at Honeywell and work in developing the global connected home product, ...
Ben

Hi, then you will be the best person to answer this. Just been looking up the Honeywell Home products and took a look at the Total Connect Comfort app in the brochure on the web site. Turns out it is not compatible (according to the Google Play store) with any of my android devices (Nexus 4, 6P and 7 tablet). So why is that?

[Wolfie]

Hi, then you will be the best person to answer this. Just been looking up the Honeywell Home products and took a look at the Total Connect Comfort app in the brochure on the web site. Turns out it is not compatible (according to the Google Play store) with any of my android devices (Nexus 4, 6P and 7 tablet). So why is that?

Let me find out and I'll get back to you...