Reply With QuoteI was thinking maybe Hive will integrate, not maybe it'll be ZigBeeOriginally Posted by rincewind
Not maybe, definitely. When it comes to UK smart energy devices Zigbee is it :)
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I was thinking maybe Hive will integrate, not maybe it'll be ZigBee
A late +1... over my dead body!
Hive will integrate. It doesn't use Zigbee by accident ;-)
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If your saying smart meters don't save money then I 100% agree.
I set our 7 day 'stat up about 6 years ago and the only time it ever gets touched is twice for a new battery or, if going away or over the summer, I press both 'temp' buttons to turn it into 5 degree frost mode.
How would 'smart' save me any money?
In fact I would argue 'smart' would waste money: If we're coming home from hols or some such, when we get in and it's the winter I simply press the two temp buttons and the boiler bursts into life. Okay it takes 30 mins for things to warm up but we're busy running around getting the coffee on, unpacked, washing machine etc... so we don't notice. Now the argument for the 'smart' crowd is we could have 'phoned' up our meter when we arrived at the airport so the house was already warm by the time we got in. Well to my mind that sounds like the heating was effectively on for longer i.e. higher energy bill!
'smart' meters are simply a way for the government to start monitoring our usage and eventually move over to different charge bands at different times. The hype for cost savings is just cobblers! And who the hell wants to know how much energy their cat's using at night?!
The cost benefit analysis for smart meters postulates that by having access to a real time view of their energy consumption via an in home display connected to a smart meter, consumers will realise how much energy they are using and how much it costs them and start to use less. Whether or not that stacks up, is of course debatable. One thing i can definitely re-assure you on is that the Government will have no access to your energy usage data. Real time supplier / tariff switching is definitely on the horizon in my view.
Yes I see it's using scare tactics to get people to shiver in their homes ;-) Or maybe people that don't know how to set they're standard thermostat? :-) tbh this is probably more likely; the modern phone generation, if they can't do it on their phone then it's beyond their ken!
I've got:
Nest Thermostat
Philips Hue
1 Netgear WeMo switch (for a fan)
I would like more integration/automation and find it annoying that Nest isn't Homekit compatible. Tempted to buy a camera but don't know whether to go integrated with the Nest (ie Nestcam) or integrated with homekit/hue. The security cams seem to be a minefield. Each one has significant negative reviews on amazon for a variety of reasons...can't find a stand out product.
Looking forward to adding the hue motion sensors in October when released.
Have been trying out the Home app with hue. Good Siri voice control but poor to manipulate the colours.
I think the last thing energy suppliers want is for people to shiver in their homes, shivering is free ;-)
Smart phone / device apps will eventually replace seperate in home display devices, and they will need to be Zigbee enabled to do so.
This is mixing up two seperate things isn't it? Smart control units and smart meters - I have a smart meter - it controls nothing.
First ive heard of motion sensors for the Hue. Quick search and it does not seem like they will activate scenes.
Usually the Philips hardware is very configurable, especially using third party apps. I suspect they will be able to switch a scene on/off.
Hopefully they will configure it some how. Ive ordered the Amazon Dot to be able to control them and hoping they will update that to turn scenes on.
Thinking now maybe ordering the Netamo thermostat with the Amazon Dot saving £50. Anyone got one? Might as well have voice activation heating as well as lights. Also like it adjusts the heating temp according to outside temp.
I use Hue and NEST, both really useful.
About to add some CCTV as well
I did not want one and was forced to have it.
Yes they can make you.
Despite us consuming less and during theoretically cheaper hours, our bill has gone up.
All with approval by the State who gets more VAT.
It is the only 'smart' bit in my house. Oh, no, not entirely true; we have a half wit tv with no hard OFF button but I have it on a socket I can manually switch off.
The heating I control myself by putting a log more or less in the hearth.
What the smart tech does is make you less capable, more dependent on electricity and subject to outside control; all at a higher price.
Don't.
Solution looking for a problem.
Mainly a way to generate new markets to replace the failing bonanza of mobile.
Security nightmare: Corporate incompetence and negligence when it comes to IoT network and data security.
Oh, and if you think you are operating a third party-provided cloud-connected security system, then you're delusional (no matter how many clever and cute features and apps it's got). It's not secure unless you've secured it yourself and the data never touches anything other than your own VPN and own cloud (or 'server', as we used to call it).
Last edited by markrlondon; 21st September 2016 at 07:11.
Essentially I take the same view and I work in IT too.I consider myself pretty tech savvy, I work in the IT industry, but what I currently see is technology looking for applications.
Tablets, PC's, Wifi, Internet enables Alarms/Radios, Wireless Speakers/Headphones all are good and very useful.
Voice control light switches/thermostats/Radios. Internet enabled Co2 detectors, Smart fridges, more questionable. Of course it would be great to have devices that can open the curtains, make your coffee and scratch your arse automatically, but does the cost benefit analysis stack up.
I appreciate I am middle aged and therefore not hip and trendy, but I do have a 4KW Solar generator, my own cloud, media steamers, etc.
^^ why would you say voice enabled light switches/thermostats are not that useful? I only ask as I'm thinking of buying the Dot with netamo thermostat.
Because, without them, there's a switch on the wall that works very well. Getting up to use the switch is not too much effort for the vast majority of people. Voice control simply isn't needed by any rational or sane measure, especially if it has any cloud connectivity. Voice control in this context is a scam to part the gullible from their money.
To be more precise, it is not ubiquitous computing that I object to, per se. I've seen what is now called the IoT (but used to be called "ubiquitous computing") coming for a great many years and, as something of an IT evangelist, have supported such development. What I do object to is the 'cloud-enabled' nature of the IoT. It is dangerous and foolish and people are throwing away their home privacy for the vaguest of baubles and most trivial of conveniences; they are in fact paying to relieve themselves of privacy and for worthless convenience and to enable the companies in whom they are putting so much trust to sell even more to them. It's not sensible and just not worth it by any sane measure.
This is not how I envisaged ubiquitous computing to look but it is not surprising that it is happening this way since (a) there is motivation due to the ramping down of the mobile bonanza and (b) the convergence of technical capability and commercial exploitability was needed. Nevertheless, we do not have to give in to it in this form. It's not mandatory to be gullible.
Last edited by markrlondon; 21st September 2016 at 07:26.
In your "not so" humble opinion.
If we ever have an 'event' which kicks the world back to less 'advanced' times then there's going to be a lot of people that just won't survive.
All the 'apple' crowd will just keel over after 12 hours when the batteries in their phone/tablet/watch pack in.
The current generation that can't even walk without having a phone in their hand will just collapse twitching on the floor.
It's going too far :-(
I can't help but think that the disabled, elderly and less able amongst us have had their lives improved by these advances in technological prowess. To be able to turn the bedroom light off yourself without intervention of a helper must be quite a liberating experience for the bed ridden (that's just one example).
Expand your vision and hopefully your humanity will do the same.
That's called a bedside lamp ;-)
how about this... remote controlled candles...
https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/20/why-why-why-headdesk/
is there no end to mans 'ingenuity'?
Yes we have switches on walls and thermostats but after getting my hue lights its great sitting watching the TV then dimming the lights or changing the colours when a movie comes on from my phone. Im just thinking of walking through the door on a cold dark winters evening with shopping in my hands and saying "Alexa turn on the lights", "Alexa set heating to 21 degrees".
When you say "It is dangerous and foolish and people are throwing away their home privacy for the vaguest of baubles and most trivial of conveniences" are you talking about internal security cameras or the always listening of Amazon? Not sure if Amazon will always be listening without prompting the Alexa command first or not?
Couldn't agree more.
If we can't even manage to flip a light switch or click up a thermostat a couple of degrees without electronic help...?
I'm pretty idle, but flippin' hell.
Cheers,
Neil.
We all know it's easy to flip a switch and it's not about being lazy. It's more about convenience.
I have sympathy with both sides of the argument here...
The common light switch is still quite a useful solution and is likely to continue to be...
its not so much the function of singular item, but, the interoperability that makes things a little more interesting... getting your connected lights to work in holiday mode i.e. flicking a couple of them on and off at certain times of day whilst your away and set your security system to armed... etc. etc.
Even with this there is no manufacturer has created the silver bullet for a really compelling smart/ automated home... I am waiting for a paradigm shift and hope that I spot it when I see it happening... otherwise I am likely to take a far more pragmatic approach to my new job
internal cameras are fine for those that want them... personally I don't think I would have them unless it was locked down to only showing verification from an alert and at no other times... my kids have a right to privacy too
The Mrs needs absolutely no assistance of any kind to turn the thermostat up. Indeed she once 'accidentally' managed to jam the '+' button down causing it to ramp up to max (29.5). She didn't notice until I came home from work and nearly lost my eyebrows opening the front door!
My reasoning for the hue wasn't laziness but more the fact that it allowed me to get rid of 2 banks of 4 halogens that were linked in a smallish room.
Operating theatres aren't as bright as that room was.
The hues allowed me to have both dimming and the ability to independently control the lights if required without the need of an electrician.
They look nicer too.
The ability to control from the phone is a handy by-product.
Using an echo dot for voice control however falls firmly into the 'that's cool' side of things
I guess your wife thought it was just pleasantly warm like my Mrs would.
Cheers,
Neil.
Can anyone recommend a "smart" front door lock?
Thanks
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
If Amazon want to covertly listen in on me all they will hear is f'ing and blinding and me being a moaning boring old fart... according to my daughters
Hi Andy...
August look good
http://august.com
Not sure if they can used in the uk yet
I am working with Yale at the moment as they have a solution that will cover most of the U.K. requirements and should be launching before the end of the year...
Ben
Nothing that is insurance approved that I'm aware of, do you want it to provide access in your absence, remote access while at home or some other scenario?
I like the smart doorbell, that's a great idea. I want one
Thanks Ben, I looked at that one, but it relies on a dead lock in the door. I was looking more for something that replaced my existing Yale style lock and bolts on the rear of the door. Kwikset? Kevo looks nice (also not available in the UK) or the Samsumg Key pad, but its not very smart. But neither of them seem geared to the UK weather (water proof).
I would be interested in the Yale - assuming it can withstand the weather.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I just want to walk up to the door and open it without using a key.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
The new Yale design means you simply making a twisting motion with your smart phone and allows you to open the door... Also, you can give a key out and programme for entrance at specific times (cleaning lady etc)
It's the one in the left...
https://www.safe.co.uk/products/yale...le-chrome.html
Hoping to swing a free sample!!!
EDIT - It is police and insurance approved
Thieves have got gadgets now that allow them to circumvent smart keys on cars and drive them away, I assume they will come up with something to get around "smart" front door locks in the future.
No more smashing in doors etc, just stroll in to somebodies house.
Tell me it's not true.
Cheers,
Neil.
If I have a take my phone out a twist it, I might as well use a key (especially as it less to go wrong). I was thinking more blue tooth, so I just have to walk up to the door and it unlocks and a key pad if I want to give a code to the 3rd party/family (without a phone) and finally a key as a last resort.
Seems simple enough to me.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Yeah...meet that... One less thing to carry I guess?
I was chatting to them and the concern with the Bluetooth 'do nothing' approach is that people could wait in range and wait for you to appraoch before getting in or it could be activated whilst you were on the garage or somehting... Tilting your phone is quicker than a keypad? Other non smart phone family members can simply use an RFID key to get in...
The benefit of the key pad, is that you don't need a phone. Not sure about you, but I have been known to leave the house without a phone :)
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Leave the house without a phone???
I know, but sometimes I forget and sometimes "i just want to be alone".Leave the house without a phone???
i once left it in the car for 3 days - blissyou should try it.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I want something to control my tv, blu-ray, onkyo, pc and hue lights.
From what I've seen I think the harmony hub will do this. I have a harmony touch already so not sure if that would work with a hub?
So out of the top 3 here https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/s/ref...b&sprefix=harm
Which one do I need?
I was having the same chat to my son on Saturday... I managed my whole life (until the age of 27) without one... There were many many advantages!I know, but sometimes I forget and sometimes "i just want to be alone".
i once left it in the car for 3 days - bliss
+1........Really can't see a worthwhile advantage with most of this stuff so I let it all go over my head!None of it - I must be living in the stone age.
Or possibly not in the thrall of useless gadgetry?
I don't even bother carrying a mobile phone habitually, I don't find it necessary.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 26th September 2016 at 23:36.
To you tecky nerds rushing out to automatic and connect everything up so you can use your phone to do things like flush the toilet! ;-)
https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram...2016/0815.html
"On the Internet of Things, integrity and availability threats are much worse than confidentiality threats. It's one thing if your smart door lock can be eavesdropped upon to know who is home. It's another thing entirely if it can be hacked to allow a burglar to open the door -- or prevent you from opening your door. A hacker who can deny you control of your car, or take over control, is much more dangerous than one who can eavesdrop on your conversations or track your car's location.
With the advent of the Internet of Things and cyber-physical systems in general, we've given the Internet hands and feet: the ability to directly affect the physical world. What used to be attacks against data and information have become attacks against flesh, steel, and concrete......."
IMHO worth a read.
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