Reply With QuoteYou can over ride it, you set a schedule and it also learns, but we use the timer and then turn it off if we are not home, well off is more like downOriginally Posted by Vanguard
I have just ordered the Amazon echo looks cool.
Have nest, wemo switches, ip camera, fire tv, chrome cast and a few other bits
You can over ride it, you set a schedule and it also learns, but we use the timer and then turn it off if we are not home, well off is more like down
The Caséta switches (and the remote together) are around 46£, but they do require a separate communications hub, 1 per system, that can add to the cost. You are right though, there certainly are less expensive options.
I consider myself pretty tech savvy, I work in the IT industry, but what I currently see is technology looking for applications.
Tablets, PC's, Wifi, Internet enables Alarms/Radios, Wireless Speakers/Headphones all are good and very useful.
Voice control light switches/thermostats/Radios. Internet enabled Co2 detectors, Smart fridges, more questionable. Of course it would be great to have devices that can open the curtains, make your coffee and scratch your arse automatically, but does the cost benefit analysis stack up.
I appreciate I am middle aged and therefore not hip and trendy, but I do have a 4KW Solar generator, my own cloud, media steamers, etc.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I consider myself pretty tech savvy, I work in the IT industry, but what I currently see is technology looking for applications.
Tablets, PC's, Wifi, Internet enables Alarms/Radios, Wireless Speakers/Headphones all are good and very useful.
Voice control light switches/thermostats/Radios. Internet enabled Co2 detectors, Smart fridges, more questionable. Of course it would be great to have devices that can open the curtains, make your coffee and scratch your arse automatically, but does the cost benefit analysis stack up.
I appreciate I am middle aged and therefore not hip and trendy, but I do have a 4KW Solar generator, my own cloud, media steamers, etc.
I have made the conscious choice to have these things in my life (although a voice activated arse scratcher is yet to brighten the marketplace horizon).
I realise that as an early adopter the premium I pay goes to develop future tech or line someone's pockets and I don't really care which. I have what I want when I want it and am happy to pay (although strangely and quite contradictory to that, Apple can go shove the new iPhone up their ............).
Horses for courses, but interesting you did not answer the question how the cost benefit analysis works out.
Clearly you think is worth being able to pre-programme and remotely control your light switches. Personally I am happy to flick a switch and spend my money on other things.
But if it was not for the early adopters like yourself then progress would be much slower.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I would rather store my own digital footprint (Photos, word documents, video and music, etc) on my own storage, rather than some mega data center somewhere in the world. Currently 4Tb and growing. Fortunately storage is cheap.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I didn't answer the cost analysis question because I havent done one.
I spend quite a bit of time away from home and like the random turn on and off function of the lights for security. I like the thermostat knowing if I am home or away and adjusting accordingly. I like being able to just tell Alexa to put something on my to do list.
This convenience costs, I understand that, I don't have to either analyse or rationalise it.
I need to tell the time and I could do that with my phone, or just ask Alexa but I choose to spend multi thousands of pounds on fine timepieces to do the job for me at my convenience.
My horse, my courses.
Ive also ordered the Amazon DOT. Didn't want the echo as i have a creation roar speaker in the kitchen which i will connect the Dot to.
I also have Hue lights and i cant think of anything cooler than walking in my house and saying "Alexa lights on"
Anyone know if you can change 'Scenes' on the Hue lights with voice activation?
4tb.... Blimey that's a lot!!!
You run the cloud off your own personal server I'm guessing...? Sounds neat
I wonder if simpler not techy versions of this could become more widely adopted?
There is no cost benefit analysis... Or not much... Smart thermostats saving money (maybe - but not as much as claimed)
Security systems reducing insurance premiums - definitely in the States and to an extent here
Other than that it's safety comfort and fun
I'm guessing you can... There are multiple commands for it...Ive also ordered the Amazon DOT. Didn't want the echo as i have a creation roar speaker in the kitchen which i will connect the Dot to.
I also have Hue lights and i cant think of anything cooler than walking in my house and saying "Alexa lights on"
Anyone know if you can change 'Scenes' on the Hue lights with voice activation?
Yeah, I think I'm with you.I consider myself pretty tech savvy, I work in the IT industry, but what I currently see is technology looking for applications.
Tablets, PC's, Wifi, Internet enables Alarms/Radios, Wireless Speakers/Headphones all are good and very useful.
Voice control light switches/thermostats/Radios. Internet enabled Co2 detectors, Smart fridges, more questionable. Of course it would be great to have devices that can open the curtains, make your coffee and scratch your arse automatically, but does the cost benefit analysis stack up.
I appreciate I am middle aged and therefore not hip and trendy, but I do have a 4KW Solar generator, my own cloud, media steamers, etc.
I've looked at this kind of technology, but don't really see the point, to be honest.
M.
PS I've not tried steaming media yet though, is it more enjoyable than deep fried?
any advice on how to start with the Hue lighting system? I have halogens in all of my house..
Just out of curiousity, how does a solar generator stack up in terms of cost benefit analysis? Is your home able to store the excess energy or you're able to sell it back to the grid? I'm quite keen on trying out this tech tbh, but I'm put off by the 20 year breakeven period.I consider myself pretty tech savvy, I work in the IT industry, but what I currently see is technology looking for applications.
Tablets, PC's, Wifi, Internet enables Alarms/Radios, Wireless Speakers/Headphones all are good and very useful.
Voice control light switches/thermostats/Radios. Internet enabled Co2 detectors, Smart fridges, more questionable. Of course it would be great to have devices that can open the curtains, make your coffee and scratch your arse automatically, but does the cost benefit analysis stack up.
I appreciate I am middle aged and therefore not hip and trendy, but I do have a 4KW Solar generator, my own cloud, media steamers, etc.
I'm a late 80s kid (as you can see from my userid) and I would second this as well. I use a similar range of stuff and my latest addition to my tech collection are Wifi security camera with cloud storage and some vpn services... but I can't quite see myself adopting devices like amazon echo or other voice controlled technology. I have 2 young kids at home at I shout at them enough that I don't want to shout at my speakers too!
Plus I don't really want to think about the costs to upkeep such technology that costs at least £100 per switch.
Have Heos throughout the house rather than Sonos and I love it. Made my decision mainly on sound quality and then partly on spotify connect capability and the fact the Heos 1 has a battery base and is waterproof. Not regretted my decision.
Have Hue lighting - love the technology but barely use its functions - its normal lighting most of the time tbh.
Just invested in the Logitech Circle cctv and thats great quality.
For the extremes of the house (loft and garden room) wi-fi wise I use the Devolo powerline system. Excellent. Powerline good - wifi extenders crap, in my experience.
Connected gadget I love the most is my Slingbox, using phones and tablets I can access my tv anywhere in the world and using Roku etc I can throw it up on any tv. I don't use it every day but I use it every month and does something that nothing else quite does. I'm amazed more people don't have it.
Cost/Benefit is a whole lot different than a ROI payback analysis, none of this technology is very good in the latter. Dimming was very high, 3-4 year payback a few years ago, but that was for incandescent light fixtures which have gone by the wayside.
Building automation of climate control also has a high ROI, as most (60%+) energy usage is related to climate control. But, the savings calculation really only applies to commercial spaces, as soon as the end user has access to the controls the projected ROI goes out the window.
The benefits, though, we each have a value we put on those. In my field, I put this stuff in for a living, the value is immense. An average project has 150+ connected lighting loads and 20+ thermostats. The difference between going out to turn the lights out, and you need to get on an elevator or go to another building to do it before going to bed, and having a control at the bedside table, there's no comparison.
Where the catch point is, and this trickles down to being in demand in regular homes, i don't know exactly where that is. I do know that I get friends, relatives, and acquaintances asking for solutions for security cameras, and an easy way to turn on the driveway lights. And I also know that that is way behind the calls I get about the confusing tech and UI on the latest cable boxes, and "how can I get faster/better internet". The other stuff is way down the list.
You'll need a gu10 starter kit which are around £150 and includes 3 gu10 bulbs and the bridge to control them. After that the bulbs are about 50quid each (colour changing ones)
I hope so or could be a bit pointless with voice activation to turn them on and then going for the phone to change scenes.
I have a Warmup floor heating system which thanks to the intelligent thermostat can be a part of "smart house" concept. Allows us to program the heating from the internet from any device.
From memory you can say "turn lights on 80%". Or something like that... I saw them being demonstrated in Berlin... They are constantly updating commands as my firm is working them on various security commands
In Skier's chalet are the following:
Sonos. Living Room - Connect; Kitchen & Dining Room - Play 5; Bedroom - 2 x Play 1.
Philips Hue. A total of 8 bulbs around the house.
Canary. 2 x cameras.
NAS. An Internet enabled NAS split into 2 RAIDS (8TB RAID5 for back-up, 4TB RAID0 for streaming music/video and accessing files when travelling)
Blackvue Car Cameras. Ok, strictly not in the home but it does provide an external view of the house when in the driveway and connected to home wifi.
I like the idea of app enabled heating/thermostat control but with an old oil heating system and no overall thermostat that won't happen anytime soon.
Last edited by Skier; 17th September 2016 at 19:50.
I was an early adopter with solar and got my system in 2011 when the Govenment introduced the higher tariff. (Now about 50p per KW - now for new contracts it's about 19p). I paid £15k and after 5 years it has returned £8k - so on track to break even after 8-9 years depending on what happens with Engery prices.
I am now looking at the Tesla home battery pack so I can save everything I generate rather than return it to the grid. Very cool. I get 3p for each Kw I export, but pay 12p I buy.
My contract with SSE runs Until 2036, so the return on investment should be very good. about £20k+ and pretty much free electricity for life.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Haven't considered a security camera on the front of the house but at two O'clock this morning I had a twat hammering on the front door and loud shouting in a silly high voice, just a piss-head on his way home, but it would have been nice to get a look at him.
Can anyone recommend a small and not expensive wifi camera I can self install ?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited by dizz; 17th September 2016 at 11:22.
Its pretty expensive to replace gu10s with hue bulbs as most people will have several banks of them in a single room - a large room could cost you £500 to kit out with hue so you'd have to decide if you really wanted that. I have some but only as a bank of three outside my garden room where the effect is pretty impressive. Elsewhere in my house where I have gu10s, i put regular hue bulbs in lamps and switch over to them for the lighting when i want to use hue effects.
Also, hue Gu10 bulbs will be larger than your halogen bulbs so you need to check you've enough clearance in your light fittings before you go ahead.
Nest thermostat, cameras and detectors
Bang & Olufsen multi room system
Lutron switches
Wiwo switches
Ring doorbell
Warmup heating controllers
Tado air conditioning controllers
And miscellaneous wifi-enabled stuff like apple TVs, Sky Q, Amazon echo, etc.
By the way, if you have cameras in your home, make sure you're protected against Shodan searches and the like. The day someone demonstrated it to me, they randomly clicked on someone's web camera in London, which opened up a live feed of their living room, their kitchen, their driveway and even their daughter's room where she was asleep in her cot. Very, very scary stuff.
Hue are about to release some non colour gu10 bulbs around £44 for a pair. Still not cheep but might save a few notes where you don't need colour.
I have a Ring doorbell for this.
Motion sensing or video on demand, auto recording of video, speech enabled, compact and fairly unobtrusive.
Are the smart devices / controllers being discussed here zigbee enabled? If not I'd suggest they're obsolete before you've even bought them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by rincewind; 17th September 2016 at 13:54.
Enlighten us please?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm not sure he can. Unlike some other wireless protocols, ZigBee is an open standard but it allows manufacturer specific "customizations", and therefore carries no promise of compatibility. Sure, some ZigBee devices can talk to one another, but definitely not all.
Z-Wave was the opposite, privately licensed standard and guaranteed compatibility, but has recently changed course given the marketplace success of its competitor ZigBee.
There may be a big boost in Z-Wave devices coming BTW. The current no.1 choice for wireless alarm systems is the Nortek 2GiG, and its accessories are Z-Wave. Its driving the alarm accessory market right now. Every door lock, garage opener, smart outlet, etc manufacturer either has or is developing a Z-Wave device. This week the leading home automation manufacturer (Control4) announced that it is going to support the platform. Looks to be a big year for Z-Wave.
Too much of this starts with a gadget then tries to find a requirement for it...which is of course completely the wrong way round and results in disappointment (I work in IT so see a lot of that...).
The Apple Home kit seems to have completely failed to take off (Apple don't even mention it anymore) which is a shame as it will take someone like them to really deliver something useful and with widespread compatibility.
Anything in your home has to have a high WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) to be genuinely useful. In my house the Sonos system fits this brief perfectly. The Mrs just fires up the app from one of her iThings and away it goes. No phone calls to tech support (me) whilst I am at work!
We have recently installed an Android Sony TV** in the living room. As expected it cannot at the moment play videos from our NAS ('File Format not supported') which is quite pathetic. But it surprised me yesterday when I started to play a video on my phone (Android) and pressed the 'Cast' symbol only to have it appear instantly on the TV (which has Google/Chrome Cast built in)! I didn't set any of this up, it just worked, no set up needed, in true er Apple fashion.
The Philips Hue stuff is interesting but has always been eye wateringly expensive, and has not come down in price. Internet connected fridges seem to have been around forever, but to no great effect or purpose.
Internet connection makes some things genuinely useful. My burglar alarm at the moment has to phone me up but would be better with an SMS sender attached to it. Likewise, I would like to install internet connected smoke detectors, and if CCTv could be integrated into the one product I would be very interested. Absolutely not interested in a monthly service charge for any of this though, which puts me off many current systems.
Years ago I bought some X10 gear and it is still in use controlling garden and shed lights (remote control from the house as the garden lights are plugged in in the shed). Very useful and a genuine solution to a problem.
**The remote for the TV has a voice control feature, which I haven't played with yet. If I had an Amazon Echo in the room would they fight over who controls the TV? :-) The TV is fully controllable over IP (as was my last 5 year old Sony) so anything is possible.
Last edited by Gruntfuttock; 17th September 2016 at 20:08.
This is a very important consideration; that the device does what it says it will and works reliably. We can all read (and write) internet reviews, so a poor product is quickly exposed and doomed to failure. Reviews put me off going anywhere near the Samsung gear for example. I do not want a buggy POS controlling my home heating and burglar alarms systems.
How do you protect against this? Just been looking at the canary cameras skier has posted (researching on web, not looking at skier dancing to his sonos with his hue lights flashing )
A lot of the time it is simply because you haven't changed the default password and user name - that is the first line of defence.
Z-wave is bigger in the States and Zigbee has more penetration here... In the end two different platforms competing is not helpful for manufacturers
Low power wifi is set to launch next year... As soon as router providers get into that manufactures might well follow
There are a few things you can do, it all depends on how secure you want the system to be.
First, make sure your camera's firmware is up to date. Manufacturers are notified of vulnerabilities all the time, and patch them with regular firmware updates. You should too.
Second, change the password for all of the camera logins (including the default or admin) to a strong password. This can be difficult or impossible for some makes, as the default password is sometimes hard coded into the software itself.
Third, avoid using port forwarding as a means of remote access. Its common, and its easy, but its not very secure.
One alternative is to use a camera, or a remote access portal, that provides a secure login service, typically via SSL.
Another is to subscribe to a recording service with a private cloud solution.
A very secure solution might involve setting up access to the camera only via VPN.
yes, you'd be amazed what is unsecure - traffic lights, police cameras etc...
Although I was active in multi-room control and lighting in my previous business, I only have Sonos and a NAS source for my music. We are in a flat so 'voice control' is limited to asking Liz for things 😁
That wouldn't be a pretty sight!
The Canary cameras are excellent, extremely reliable and the image quality is superb. I previously had an IZON camera and it went in the bin as it kept locking up and the only way to reset it was to pull the power and then reconnect it; hardly useful when away from home! The only thing I don't like about the Canary is that there's an LED light in the base that changes colour depending on the mode you're in (Armed, Disarmed, Privacy) which makes no sense to me as you don't want to draw attention to them. I have covered the lights with thick black tape. I have suggested to Canary that at the very least there should be an option in the app to disable the light and they understand the reasoning. Apparently I was not the first to point this out to them.
I tried that as well. It used to work when she was my girlfriend but I found that after becoming my wife it started to go wrong. And almost 30 years later I am reliably informed that if I wanted a working new model I'd have to install it in a different house. Technology doesn't age well.
When we built our house we networked everything to a hub room and installed RTI as a control system. This allows you to control anything automated from an iPad or remote e.g. CCTV, sky, bluray , Apple TV, radio, sonos, blinds, door entry etc. Flexible, scalable, programmable - only downside is price. Control4 cheaper solution and more popular in UK.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sorry for delayed reply was on a plane away from my smart device for a few hours :)
In the next couple of months or so energy suppliers are due to start rolling out the SMETS2 smart metering systems to all homes in the UK. These systems will use a communications hub that on the consumer side will use Zigbee as the transport protocol for the HAN (home area network) so each home will have a Zigbee network that smart metering devices (ESME / GSME / IHD) will use to communicate with each other and the back end data systems. Following hard on the heels of this will be Zigbee CAD's (consumer access devices) that will connect non smart metering devices to the HAN and (potentially) via the communications hub the wide area networks.
This allied with DNO's building up their smart grid capability, means that starting with white goods (some Zigbee enabled washing machines are already being produced and other items will follow shortly) the standard that will become prevalent in UK homes (simply because it's being mandated by smart metering) will be Zigbee. In my view it's via the HAN that 'non smart metering smart devices' in the home will communicate with each other (and whatever back end systems ultimately end up communicating with them via the wide area networks the hubs connect to) and this is how the 'Internet of things' will develop in the UK.
So it's just a view, but as I say, for those reasons not Zigbee enabled equals obsolete. The existence of the network will drive the chipset / protocol the UK market uses.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OK, so I think I understand. You are saying SMETS2 with ESME, GSME, and IHD (plus DNO) all linked together with HAN? Is that correct? :-)
I've done a lot of digging in to home automation for my new home, this is what I've committed to so far: -
Sonos Connect Amps & Ceiling speakers in 8 zones
2n Helios Access controls
Hikvision cameras everywhere (3 internal, many external)
Honeywell Evohome controlling all my radiators (16) and underfloor heating (4 zones)
Nest Protect wired smoke detectors x5
In consideration -
Z-Wave lighting controls & appliance controls
Z-Wave programmable switches (MCO Touch Glass)
Robotic Lawnmowers
This looks interesting for monitoring rather than control:
http://howz.com/
Ah, not quite released yet and 'sends information to our secure servers' so there will be a monthly charge involved.
Last edited by Gruntfuttock; 19th September 2016 at 07:28.
That was what I was trying to achieve with various systems as my father was determined to live on his own rather than go in a home.
Neurio told me his microwave or kettle was in use in the morning.
Logitech Alert cameras let me know if there were visitors to the house or if dad had wandered out.
Hive motion sensors (though slightly too late) let me know that he was moving around the house.
And the Hive thermostat allowed me to sort out his heating (typically when he'd managed to turn it off rather than up) without a 2-hour round trip.
And for the last few months he also had a fall alarm he could press which called for assistance if needed.
Ok, this stuff wasn't particularly well integrated, but it provided a level of assurance, and allowed him to live (at least on the surface) independently.
Some of this stuff is expensive (the Logitech Alert eye watering so) but from a simple economics perspective, keeping him at home for one month longer than I could have done without the tech paid for all of it.
On the subject of monthly subs, I see them as a good thing, not because I like paying them, but because it gives an ongoing funding line for keeping the cloud services running and product support in place. Products that rely entirely on new purchases to fund the ongoing running are fine if the product continues to grow, but is somewhat flawed it the product stops being flavour of the month.
I'm not overly worried about Hive as it's got British Gas behind it, Logitech charge me £50 a year to allow remote viewing/management of my cameras via their servers, but Neurio doesn't charge and that's a bit of a concern as they're in a quite competitive market sector.
As a complete aside, I'm a bit disappointed that no-one has said that they have guard sharks fitted with frickkin' lasers!
No :)
Ignore the acronyms. My point is that by the end of 2020 the vast majority of UK homes will have a Zigbee network installed. This network will be capable of connecting consumer side devices to supplier back end data systems. This means that 70M+ Zigbee devices will be installed into UK homes by the end of 2020. This will generate a wider UK market for Zigbee enabled smart devices that will in turn drive the technology they utilise, in this case Zigbee over other competing technologies.
And my understanding is that Hive uses ZigBee so at least one part of my home automation isn't heading down a technological dead end.
Maybe.
Posting Permissions
