Reply With QuoteI have used them in the past and all was fine with the Longines service. The omega one however, the watch came back with one of the bracelet links in the wrong way aroundOriginally Posted by cikoleko
Seems that they can't get things done right. My watch was sent for repair but when it came back chronograph wouldn't reset on 12, instead on 1 so they had to immediately send it back again.
When it came from second warranty everything was fine until I tried to measure how much faster it runs and guess what, +10 seconds per 24 hours, when I bought this watch 6 months ago it was running +2/3 seconds per 24 hours... So basically they haven't calibrated it properly.
Have anyone else had their watch serviced/repaired in Swatch Southampton? I don't even know what to do, waste another month without a watch and hope they will do it right this time..?
I have used them in the past and all was fine with the Longines service. The omega one however, the watch came back with one of the bracelet links in the wrong way around
I mean everything is right with my watch but obviously very few people know that automatic watches run couple of seconds faster a day, which is acceptable for non co-axial movements.
My watch has a transparent back and I spotted that the calibration mechanism is a little bit off the center leaning toward positive side so I decided to measure how much faster it runs and after 24 hours it was +10 seconds, after another 24 +20 seconds, today is the third day so I will measure again at 5:31 PM. The point I'm trying to make is probably not many people know that and probably did not test their watches after warranty/repairs so who knows how many watches were not calibrated properly
I personally did not know about this as well, when I bought my watch I spotted that after 5 days it was running +15 seconds faster so I asked why is that then people told me that's normal for automatic watches.
Last edited by cikoleko; 7th August 2016 at 15:17.
Yes especially when sales assistant took my watch to show me that chronograph hand runs fine as my service was for that reason because chronograph was running more like on a quartz watch. But when he tried to reset it I saw he started pushing buttons randomly and then I spotted that it would stop on 1 o'clock, imagine how frustrated I was when I came to collect my watch after a month and I found out that it will be sent back for one more month.
You can check the video what was it running like :)
Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...19ERy1kaDNTWm8
After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...lJ6a1dZaHM5Z2c
Last edited by cikoleko; 7th August 2016 at 19:08.
I can't get either of your links to work.
When you say the chronograph ran more like a quartz watch are you referring to a stutter on the central seconds hand?
Do you know what calibre your watch has in it, or a picture of the watch?
Your woes may due to a duff chronograph module compounded by a lack of care and attention when servicing the base calibre or simply deciding that it was running within specs if it's a non chronometer movement.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Last edited by AKM; 7th August 2016 at 15:52.
Sorry, can you try now, it's Longines 688.2:
Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...19ERy1kaDNTWm8
After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...lJ6a1dZaHM5Z2c
It was running like that when I bought it but I just did not seem to care much until I watched a video review of the same watch and I saw that my one is definitely not running as smooth as it should.
Last edited by cikoleko; 7th August 2016 at 15:57.
Forget about chrono specs etc. Regardless of whether the watch is chronometer rated or not, it can be regulated to run better than + 10 secs/ day. As for the stutter on the chrono hand, that's a minor issue that can usually be addressed by adjustment to the depth of engagement of the teeth on the chrono runner ( not sure what movement this is, but that's the standard procedure).
Send the watch back and ask that it be sorted correctly. However, before doing so I suggest you fully wind the watch and wear it for a few days to check the timekeeping. If it's operating in a low state of wind it will be less accurate. As for the position of the regulator, that means nothing, you can't make any inference from this.
Paul
Return it to the shop for a refund. No way should you be having to put up with this.
It's a column wheel movement and should have been silky smooth. It's usually worth letting people on here know the movement or model when you've got queries so they can chip in with advice.
I suggest you give it some settling in time / wear it as Paul suggests to make sure it isn't just being worn with the mainspring barely wound.
It should be possible to get that movement to be very accurate. You'd need to explain that you're unhappy with the loss in accuracy and ask for them to regulate it for you.
The question on the specification is relevant because they may regard it gaining 10 seconds per day on your wrist as adequate, but for good customer service they should offer to adjust it for you.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Thanks, actually when I received the watch it stopped next day, I always use a watch winder but I think I forgot to switch the socket on so when I woke up in the morning it was not running. Probably it was barely winded, after that I winded it for about 10 times and that was it. Actually today I wasn't able to measure it exactly at 5:31 but I did it at 5:52 and it was only running +5 seconds faster compared to yesterday. I am not sure two days in a row it was dead +10 but today only +5, probably you are right I need more time to see how it goes, will measure it again tomorrow. But still by looking at that part inside the movement with -+ the arrow is off the center, because as you pointed out it still should be smoother than this and as I said, before the warranty it was running +2/3 seconds a day.
Last edited by cikoleko; 7th August 2016 at 19:06.
The 'smoothness' was just in relation to the chronograph (stop watch) operation and not about the time keeping.
Try it over a week or so and take an average. Resist the temptation to correct the time, until you've seen what the average is.
The L688.2 is based on a Valjoux 7750, you may need to check your watch winder settings as the movement (someone correct me if I'm wrong) with the rotor only winds in one direction. Some winders alternate between clockwise and anticlockwise rotation, but your movement may only be winding itself in one direction.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Here's a link to a article about servicing a L688.2 if you've ever wondered what it looks like stripped down:
http://raulhorology.com/2013/03/the-...alibre-l688-2/
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Oh I see, yes for sure that was one of the reasons I bought a watch with a column wheel. Thank you for the hint about winding direction, I did not know about that. Can someone confirm if it's true that it can only wind in one direction, if yes which one? Thanks.
EDIT: I googled and it says 7750 winds clockwise only so which way the winder should be turning when I insert my watch into it?
Last edited by cikoleko; 7th August 2016 at 19:49.
Oh mein Gott....
An automatic winds with any movement that makes the rotor 'swing' so it doesn't matter which way it goes on the winder. The direction of the wind is only applicable to the crown when hand winding.
It is a watch. Just wear it. No need for a winder. If you are not wearing it, just let it stop and give it a rest.
There's a thread on winder settings including for a 7750 on Watchuseek:
http://www.watchfreeks.com/showthread.php?t=9967
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
I stand corrected the 7750 only winds clockwise. All this time I'd assumed autos wound both ways
Yes I checked now, when I look at my watch and turn it clockwise as it would turn in a winder I can hear the sound, when I turn it anti-clockwise there's no sound. First time I heard this as well, I always used to switch the winder mode as I thought it's better when it turns both ways instead of turning one way all the time LOLI stand corrected the 7750 only winds clockwise. All this time I'd assumed autos wound both ways
Well give it a week or so on your wrist and or the winder and take an average of the accuracy - hopefully, your problems were due to it not being fully wound.
Don't be afraid to send it back to Longines / Swatch UK if it doesn't perform as you'd like.
I'd be inclined to wear it every day to see how it behaves. Winders are often frowned upon in these parts as causing unnecessary wear and tear on movements but as far as I'm concerned a man's winder orientation is his own business ;)
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
If the OP does as I suggest he'll have a far better idea of whether the watch is running excessively fast or not. Suggest he also takes heed of what I've said regarding the position of the fine regulator.
Paul
Thank you all for the tips!
Surprisingly it actually did make a lot of difference although yesterday (3rd day that it took measurements) it was already only running +5sec, today again only +5sec.
I changed winder mode to clockwise and more TPD but I did it only yesterday evening so don't know what happened between day 2 & 3 that time dropped from 10 to 5
Maybe I was just wearing the watch more actively. But I will definitely keep an eye for extra couple of days and see if it improves even more as +5sec are still a bit too high.
P.S. my watch has push-piece for adjusting the date so I can do it without stopping the watch i.e pushing crown correct?
It's so weird that Longines manuals have so little information and it's for all of their models not specifically for the watch that I own
I agree, I don't think Longines are terribly helpful in their instructions. You wouldn't normally need to stop a watch in order to adjust the date and a push button on the side of the case would normally make the crown redundant in this respect.
I suggest you contact Longines customer services for advice and also ask whether there are any times of the day when you shouldn't adjust the date - many watches are vulnerable between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. when the date does its automatic change and you can literally shred the teeth off the gears if you attempt to change the date during this time.
It may or may not be an issue for the 688.2 I don't know how the date mechanism is designed.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Does that looks properly aligned to you? Compared to random picture on internet doesn't look straight to me.
https://uhrforum.de/attachments/1204...t-img_8398.jpg
EDIT: actually in this video I think the arrow looks like in the same position as mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axjJPFkPbIo
Last edited by cikoleko; 9th August 2016 at 21:10.
Hm, today it was +7 seconds, last 3 days only +5. I manually winded the watch yesterday as well hoping that the result will get better but seems that it's even worse now, do you think I need to wait more to see if it changes or it will stay as it is
Mate, it's as if you're wanting this watch to be faulty!
There's NOTHING wrong with the chrono hand alignment in my opinion. If you tilt the watch slightly you introduce parallax error and it'll seem a tad off. You can drive yourself mad looking at it.....I have to get 'em right when I send 'em back to the owner because there's just a chance (albeit a slim one) that the owner's more fussy than me....and I`m a V. fussy about things being right. Best thing to do is look at the watch on your wrist, look through one eye from approx. 8 inches, and if it doesn`t look obviously wrong it's OK. Sometimes it's harder yto judge the longer you stare at it.
As for the timekeeping, I can`t follow what's been said, but here (for the last time) is my advice: Fully wind the watch, wear it all day, place it dial-up overnight. Do this for a few days, check it against a known good timekeeper (a quartz watch will do, I never trust computer readouts or phones) and record the variation morning and night. This will show three things; it'll show the rate dial-up, it'll show the rate 'on the wrist', and it'll show the overall rate. I would expect an overall rate of between zero and +5 secs/day; if it was my watch I couldn`t be bothered to fine-tune it any better.
Check it against a quartz watch for a few days and write the data down in a table. Draw your conclusions on the basis of the figures obtained. It might make sense to take readings over a longer period, but 5 days should be adequate.
If you have to send the watch back you're in a far better position if you've got some data. Possibly it needs further fine-tuning to regulate it better, but I suggest you keep an open mind until you've got some reliable numbers.
Paul
Parallax or the bezel is slightly off. I assume that you're comparing the position of the hand to the dot at 60 on tachymeter scale.
It does look very slight though.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
If you wear the watch every day, you won't need the winder or to do any hand winding; the winder is only of use for the days when you don't wear the watch but want to keep it running.
The position you put the watch in when you take it off makes a difference to the time keeping overnight - mechanical watches usually gain or lose slightly depending upon whether they're placed dial facing up or down, or on their side with the crown up or down. Some owners compensate for a watch that gains during the day by finding a position where it loses overnight (or vice versa).
You need to be scientific in your approach. You'd be best to just wear the watch normally, every day and stick to one position at night for a few days to establish the pattern.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Can you clarify what you mean by "normally", if I'm out only for 3-4 hours a day is that enough? If it's not enough do I put it in a winder overnight or I wind it manually in the morning, thanks.
It's worth using the watch as it was intended to establish some consistency, it will keep time differently whilst being worn to what it does when you put it in one static position.
A typical person works from 9-5 and wears their watch from before they leave the house until couple of hours after they get home - If this is you, you probably won't have any need to hand wind it, or use a winder, except for days when your not wearing it, as when you take it off it will be likely to be fully wound and the power reserve will easily take it through to morning.
These are the conditions in which I'd want it to perform and if I chose to send it back to Longines, I'd want it to be able to tell them how much it gains or losses in these 'real world' conditions. If you are only wearing it occasionally, or for a couple hours per day, it won't give a true reflection of it's accuracy, unless what you want is a watch that's been regulated to kept great time whilst it's in its box or put on a winder.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Last edited by AKM; 12th August 2016 at 09:35.
Result so far (+44 seconds at the beginning),
After 12 h at 11:59, +45 seconds (+1 sec) (face up during the night)
After 24 h at 23:44, +45 seconds (+0 sec) (wearing around 6 h, walking, jogging etc.)
After 36 h at 11:44, +47 seconds (+2 sec) (face up during the night)
I seen someone said the lower power reserve is the faster watch runs, was that the problem in my case? Probably it was barely winded, when I winded it 8 times only it started running two times better only +5 compared to +10. It was probably still not enough then I winded it even more and now seems that there's nothing wrong with it?
Nothing wrong with that IMO. Simple answer is often the right one, watches won`t keep good time when running in a very low state of wind.
Paul
Sounds like the problem might have been consequence of the 54-hour power reserve which, although a useful feature, depending upon the habits of the wearer, could result in the watch running in a low state of wind more often.
Most watches are 38-40 hours power reserve and there's less scope for this to happen.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Date changes at 11:56 PM, is that normal? Never saw that before... Always used to do it at around 12:05 AM.
Think about it: the date change can vary very slightly owing to slight tolerance differences between the profiles of the teeth on the date ring. For the date to change exactly at the same time every day, the date wheel would need to be produced to a very high tolerance. Varying by 1-2 minutes is not unusual.
when the date is just about to change, any slight vibration or knock to the watch will cause it to spring over a little earlier than if it was left alone. That's probably what happened, but if the date change does vary slightly does it really matter?
For f****s sake stop fretting; there's nothing wrong with this watch, you seem to be trying to find problems. It's a mechanical item, if you can't accept that maybe you should've bought a G shock.
Paul
No I meant that before it always used to change ~5 minutes after 12 AM and after the service I spotted that the date is always half way down like 30 minutes before 12 AM but today was the first day that I actually saw it changing before 12 AM. I am not trying to find problems, I am just saying how it used to behave before and now it behaves differently so I am just asking is this how it should be, all watches I saw change date after 12 AM and my used to do the same, now it doesn't.
The 7750 winds clockwise and, on a winder, needs 800 turns per day.
(Source: Orbita.)
My advice is this: Replace the watch with something simpler.
The more features a watch has the more problems you are likely to get, real or imagined. I got over chronos long ago. Won't touch one with a 10 foot pole (unless it happens to be a Speedy) these days.
Last edited by GrandS; 14th August 2016 at 06:32.
If the service involved removing the hands, doing other work, and refitting the hands I would expect the date change time to be slightly different.
I'd be annoyed if the date changed at 11.30 or 12.30, but 5 minutes out? Nothing to worry about.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Imo that isn't right. A longer reserve will allow the watch to perform for longer at a higher proportion of max mainspring power, not less. For example, if left unworn for 24 hours, a 54hr reserve is still at about 55% reserve, the 38hr example you quote is only at about 35% and more likely to exhibit non-isochronous behaviour. The most recent Rolex and Omega designs are tending towards 70 hour reserve. They wouldn't be doing this if your logic held sway.
OK, he's talking about a discrepancy in date change before and after service, which explains the difference.
Considering the hands will have been removed it's likely that the date will change in a slightly different position; getting the hands set to change the date at exactly 12 is very difficult and it's generally accepted that changing within 5 minutes is acceptable. Personally I always ensure the watch doesn't change before 12, but I guess it doesn't matter too much.
I reiterate what I said previously; I don't think there's anything wrong with this watch. For some reason the OP seems convinced the service work has been carried out badly and I find that hard to understand.
There's no mystique about stripping a watch and reassembling it. It's a machine, it's assembled at the factory from a pile of parts and if it needs work in the future it gets stripped down and reassembled again. Provided this is done carefully there shouldn't be any issues; sure, things can sometimes go wrong but my default assumption would always be that the work has been done correctly. It's always sensible to check things yourself, but a basic understanding of how a mechanical watch performs is a big help and it's worth doing a bit of reading to learn this.
Paul
It's a mark of a quality watch to be able to achieve consistency over a longer power reserve. Companies like Rolex and Omega are responding to consumer demand for watches that behave more like quartz and don't stop when taken-off over the weekend - even if it's harder to achieve.
Every company that makes an 8-day or longer power reserve has commented on the challenges of ensuring consistency in time keeping as the main spring runs down, with it often stated that isochronism is more of an issue the longer the power reserve. The problem is that the reduction in the torque of the mainspring as it unwinds, is not linear - it's more like an elongated 's' with a flat spot in the middle and two curves at either end. Watch companies usually aim to have the movement running within the flat section and having a shorter power reserve makes this easier.
I have a 72-hour Grand Seiko automatic and whilst you can leave it off your wrist for three days the time keeping is always markedly worse than if it had been worn on the wrist or kept fully wound during the same period.
Lange and Söhne did a mechanical watch with a month-long power reserve with an interesting complication to vary the braking of the mainspring as the torque reduces.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Omega's twin Spring barrel is a clever way to provide over 60hrs power reserve whilst keeping the torque output uniform. Personally, long power reserve isn't an advantage to me but the manufacturers seem to think it's important.
Paul
Final results, probably that's more than enough of monitoring.
Time gaps marked with * when I did put the watch on a winder during the night, clearly shows the highest offset +4 and +3 seconds in 12 hours.
So maybe the problem is with the winder as overall in 24 hours it makes at least +7 seconds, when I said that my watch was doing +2/3 seconds before it was when I did not even had a winder.
Your watch is perfectly fine. It performs within COSC parameters. Scrap your winder and wear the watch. The 7750 movement and it's 'evolutions' are the most used mech. chrono movements out there. From Swatch to Breitling, everyone uses it.
The performance, altough not very refined, is exemplary. Your hands are perfectly aligned (may be the Bezel is not....what's with the yellow line?)
and now.....
Move on...there is nothing more to see...
COSC specification: Average daily rate: −4/+6
Even when on the winder (which probably winds it up a heck of a lot quicker than your wrist would (depending on model and settings...)) it's within this spec.
It's working fine.
It looks fine.
It is fine.
To be honest it seems to me as if you are looking for an excuse to get rid of it, any excuse, be it the watch, the accuracy, the alignment of the hands, the service, the company, even the winder. I would suggest you accept the fact mechanical watches are not accurate to quartz levels, most of us have a secondary clock in our pockets for that purpose, made by Samsung or Apple or Nokia. And if you don't like it, flip it for a quartz or something else.
That's what I was trying to say that the accuracy is even better than I thought it will be. Except when it's on the winder but as I said the time I was comparing to I did not even had a winder so there's no point comparing it with that. On top of that It's not even that I wear it 'casually' I do running etc. so I'm more than satisfied with how it performs now.
I did the yellow line thing because I thought that arrow should be aligned with it (as I see it does on many of the watches).
Last edited by cikoleko; 16th August 2016 at 16:18.
Where did you get it from? It's the other way around mate. If you read carefully I said "it was running +2/3 seconds at the time when I did not even have the winder" so as I said there's no point on monitoring it anymore as I can clearly see it does run at most +3 seconds per 24 hours (sometimes even better) which means everything is more than fine.
Regarding everything else, yes the chronograph was not running as it should straight away when I bough the watch, which was confirmed by Longines otherwise they wouldn't even accept it for warranty repairs... This was fixed but not in 1 service but in 2 because after 1st service the hand wouldn't reset on 12 instead on 1.
So I don't know what you were trying to say here because I did not say anything when chronograph wasn't working properly, even when I had to send it back immediately straight away I didn't say anything! It's only when I thought that it wasn't calibrated properly I made this post but as I found out there's nothing wrong with it - it is calibrated properly.
The only thing now I'm not really happy are some weird marks on the inner side of bracelet (polished parts) but obviously even if it wasn't me I cannot do anything now as I should have inspected it when collecting. Also there's two round marks on crystal which I can't even spot until I point it on light, also not sure were they caused when removing it or something else.
A watch will keep different time on a winder compared with wearing it.
Think about it; on the winder it's always in a hanging position , either stationary or moving, thus removing the influence of the flat positions on the average rate.
It's not rocket science but it's surprising how folks overlook this factor.
Paul
Let me guess - the bracelet marks are from the bracelet links and clasp rubbing against each other whilst in transit to and / or from the service centre?
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
