Reply With QuoteAll England's problems begin and end with the incompetent FA.Originally Posted by tiny73
Really? I thought after Woy the FA were looking at more dynamic (foreign) coaches/managers? Seems like (another) step backwards in recruiting a perennial relegation scrapping manager.
Are we destined to be forever an under performing team?
All England's problems begin and end with the incompetent FA.
Agreed, feels like not much of a change from Roy, really. We need some new ideas and an injection of dynamism.
Can you imagine a limited edition Hublot Sam Alladyce? But I suppose we did have the Woy version. Wonder how that sold?
Or constantly over rated by the press? They expect a win (or at least a Semi Final appearance) at every competition!
I have always liked Big Sam, but the England job?
Too many old duffers at The FA making poor decisions.
Good point on the overrating by the press but I feel with some of the talent we have we should be able to win a group stage with relative ease and maybe progress. Hell, at least playing with some semblance of talent and passion would be a start.
Seems a perfect fit for the England job, I'm sure he'll perform just as well as all the other England managers over the past 20 years.
And who wouldn't want a Hublot Big Sam Big Bang.
Happy enough with him... He'll do alright... He always does...
At least he has some tactical nouse...
He should of been offered the job before McLaren, Capello and Woy.
Criminally overlooked .
I think Sam will do alright. There is always a clamour for foreign coaches. I seem to recall the last two foreigners didn't do so well. You can't make a silk peruse out of a sows ear as there say.
The fact that Sam is even being interviewed by the FA for the England job shows how close to the bottom of the barrel they are having to scrape to find the next manager. I think there are bigger issues with the England set up which seems to partly stem from the mentality of the players (perhaps when they pull on an England shirt). The FA needs to address the whole set up for the longer term rather than keep trotting out the same excuse of it being the manager's fault.
For the record I thought Roy was a terrible appointment to start with. Being a Liverpool supporter I remember how gutted I was when he was appointed at Anfield.
I hated having him at Nerwcastle, he was atrocious, but I do think had he stayed we'd have stayed up that year.
He's been in for it twice before and both times I didn't think he was right for it......but I think he is at this juncture.
We lack stucture, formation, organisation, discipline, commitment and team ethic. Sam will provide all of those things. His long-ball days were years ago. Sunderland didn't play crap football under him last year, they were pretty decent. What they did have was a squad of players who would run through walls for each other. They had organisation. They had discipline and commitment. They had a formation they played to and every player knew what their job was. They were hard to beat yet scored the goals they needed to survive.
England needs that now. Internationally we are Sunderland now.
He still doesn't have the job though. I bet he'll go in and say "not doing that, not having this, I do that this way" etc. If the FA still go for him then we'll see a change. If they thank him for his time and show him the door then we'll get what we've always got from the FA.
There is a reason we got rid of him at West Ham despite table position. His brand of football is simply dire.
I think he will be ok, who else is there that is available?
The FA knew Roy was not going to have his contract renewed so why didnt they get someone on board early.
This is the big problem isn't it. There really isn't much choice.
I can't see how the expert in avoiding relegation can help England at all. It is not like the can be relegated from anything is it? His style and approach to the game will drive fans to despair. It is going to be a long and desolate tenure should he be appointed. I don't have an alternative suggestion though, I am just stating from my experience as a West Ham fan that he will bring no happiness to the establishment or to the fans.
Sam's long-ball days are well behind him. The football I watched at Sunderland from January this year was some of the best football I've seen since the PR days. Organised, committed, confident and enough (just) to keep us up. We finished on a high and, barring a couple of loan returnees, starting this season with a settled and decent squad for the first time in four seasons. Last season 3 points from the first ten games did the damage and we we're always playing catchup. Was hoping for better this season but it's all gone out of the window again.
With the bumbling structure of the FA and the attitude of our no-mark players he could be looking for a club job after the WC 2018 qualifiers. The FA won't let him pick unfashionable in-form players of his choice when they want to see the Rooneys, Sterlings, Wilsheres, Harts etc in the first team. They are stinking the place out.
This won't end well, but nothing new here.
It always amuses me how the manager gets all the blame.....there are 11 overpaid prima donnas waltzing around the football pitch that are also culpable. Yes,Woy was an 'interesting' choice,and I can't say I'm that clear as to why the perennial relegation avoidance expert would be brought in (apart from completely running out of options), but whatever the tactics and team set up,it still needs players who believe in themselves,play as an integrated team and don't live on long past glories. England need to accept that they are not a world force in football and more like a world farce. Once that happens then perhaps we might start achieving again?
Just the type of image the FA want to portray at Wembley, with him sprawled in his seat, gut out, shoving gum in his face with Kevin Nolan as captain.
Last edited by bonzo697; 14th July 2016 at 13:55.
Was it six years ago Lalana and Lambert were overlooked because despite being in the form of their lives they were having huge fun at Southampton, in the Championship, and not in a top six Premier League club? I'd be perfectly happy seeing the squad selected from players not in the top six clubs.
"A man of little significance"
Take Roy's inept tactics. Select two strikers with 50 goals between them in the PL and play them wide so Rooney can can be accommodated through the middle. Amateurish in the least.
England for me just now is a young team needing someone who can get the most out of them, and Allardyce i doubt is that kind of guy. You guys are screaming out for a top end foreign coach or a coach with a good track record with youngsters like Pochettino, the whole 'we tried a foreign manager' thing was a bit daft, Capello was renowned for being a defensive minded coach, which didn't suit England at the time.
Whoever they pick should be an Englishman IMO.
I wasn't enamoured with Sam at West Ham after he got us up but he is a results man and that is what England need more than anything IMO. Results are all that matter at tournaments.
All that possession football we had at the Euro's didn't do us much good did it?
I wouldn't want him as our club manager again (is anyone better than Slaven? ) but as an England manager I think he may be just the job. He certainly gets the best out of players, look at Sunderland.
Cheers,
Neil.
Easier to do at club level when you have the same players together for an entire season; much harder to achieve over the short time the players spend with the England set up.
£3.5m per year (or about £6m/yr if the FA stretches to what it paid Capello). England should have the pick of some pretty good managers for that sort of money.
Allerdyce/Gerrard
Gerrard was part of the problem, not the solution. If you listen to players like Dean Ashton, Micky Gray and Kevin Phillips they'll tell you that the senior players including Gerrard never (they actually said never!) even bothered speaking to the 'lesser' players at squad meet-ups. So it's no wonder there's no team spirit.Allerdyce/Gerrard
I can just imagine the aloofness of such arseholes.
The modern versions of Gerrard are the ones the FA won't ditch because they believe in 'box office' players even when they're well past their sell-by and way out of form. They are used to being surrounded at club level by grafters from all over Europe and N Africa doing all the leg work while they pick up the kudos. The last Euros were an example of taking away the grafters and there's nowt left in the team worth mentioning. It was a shambles but don't expect the FA to do a 'root and branch' overhaul.
Take Trevor Brooking's appointment as Director of Football Development for the FA all those years ago. Produced nothing but was just the sort of hierarchy they employ at the FA. It's a gravy train run for the benefit of its members rather than the benefit of football.
The current panel choosing the next manager have no knowledge of the game. Just experience of failure after failure.
It's a poisoned chalice. We just don't have the player calibre or manager calibre anymore. Howard Wilkinson was the last to win the league nearly 25 years ago and there doesn't appear to be anyone close to ending it. As for the players, there just aren't enough with the talent - 50% of the reason is there's too many from oversees playing in the league now and they are only there because of the money. Working out the other 50% is the million dollar question, part of it is the completely incompetent and unaccountable FA and the whole damn infrastructure. As for Sam? I like him but come on, history will just repeat itself.
The FA should take a long look at the success the the RFU have had with the appointment of Eddie Jones. Similarities of a young squad with talent that needs strong leadership, discipline and proven tactical management are striking. Get it right now and they have the time to mature into a competitive squad.
If you have that level of high achieving homegrown management then great, but if not and it needs to be a foreign appointment so be it, no one cares when you are winning.
Last edited by eduk; 15th July 2016 at 06:18.
Top six as long as you're not... Leicester!!!
I don't follow the trashy papers so I can't fully comment on this but ultimately the press just want to sell papers. They love to build up the team and then they can knock it down again.
In terms of the average England fan thinking we're going to just turn up and get to a semi final or win a trophy, it's a complete myth. I've never met an England football fan with that kind of attitude.
Yes, when we had better teams / managers we probably overestimated our chances but isn't that true of fans of any team?
This time around there were virtually no England flags on cars or in windows. Most fans knew we had practically no chance of winning the tournament or even getting close.
But the team still massively underperformed against what it should be capable of. Look at the club level that even this average England team play at versus, for example, the majority of the Welsh players or the Iceland players. That's not English arrogance talking, it's just stating a fact. We have a much bigger population and more players to pick from the top level. But then based on how these players performed in the Euros none of them would get in the Welsh squad.
Something isn't right and it hasn't been for years. England have a losing mentality when they get to tournaments and this goes back many years. The players just can't cope with the pressure and our record in penalty shoot outs shows this, 1 win in 8 (compare that to Germany's 100% record).
This.
i vote someone like vinnie jones, :D imagine not giving 110% and having to go back into the changing rooms with him? On a serious not though, i know hes not English but jurgen klinsmann, he done awesome with the yanks at the world cup.
Really?
Is that honestly the best that you have?
Seems well short of what I would expect of an international manager.
Don't think a new manager can just bring the results, more grassroots talents needs to be nurtured.
Don't laugh, Ryan Giggs anyone??
Not daft at all.
Based on limited knowledge of who's 'out there' I'd go for a Shearer/Gary Neville duet. Having two splits the criticism (OK, makes blame harder to attribute too!) covers both attack and defence with players who have played fairly recently and understand the modern game and it's two people who (IMO) actually understand football.
Why not?
That's the trade off... Shit football, or better results...
Maybe we are not as good as we think we are, even though on paper we do have potentially great players.
Portugal managed to win the Euros without winning a game in 90 minutes... Hardly great football as well...( odd flashes of genius/goals)
For once, just once, I'd just wish we could win a euro or World Cup, in the next 30/40 years... Even if we don't play great football, just grinding out results...
How many of the people here would take that? Or would preference be for playing attractive football and winning nothing. (Even though we managed neither on the Euros)
At least Allardyce will put up with no nonsense, players might be organised and have a bit of discipline...
I'll throw my hat in the ring.
i'm no footballing expert, but seeing as Martin Glenn isn't (as he admitted at the press conference the day after the Iceland game), I fully expect a call.
I`m no football expert, but it seems obvious that the qualities required by an international manager are not necessarily the same prerequisites for success in club football.
The manager has to work with what he's got; there's a limited supply of players who have what it takes to be successful in an international arena and I don`t see how an England manager can be expected to coach /develop players given the limited time they spend under his influence. Surely it's all about blending the available talent together to form an effective team that's capable of performing credibly.
I think it's time we looked at how the lesser teams manage to punch above their weight; despite using players from below football's top level teams such as Wales (and Iceland) have aquitted themselves far better than England recently. OK, Wales had talent in the squad but the majority of players weren't exactly household names! To me, it's all about playing to a consistent system that makes the best of what's available and (more importantly) instilling a real 'team ethic' into the side. It's all about picking players with the right attitude and mental approach, even if they're not the most talented available. How many times do we see top players underperform when they don an England shirt? They don`t suddenly become poor players overnight, but it's almost as if the shirt is made of lead and they carry it like a burden. That has to change, and for me it's vital to get a management set-up that can create the right environment. Forget technical coaching, the England set-up isn`t about player development, it's about moulding a set of individuals (and rivals) into an effective team. They can ALL play football to a reasonably high level, they do that frequently for their clubs, but how do we translate that into an effective representative side?
The manager who can address that challenge is probably a different beast to the guy who can build a successful club side. It's easy to blame the players etc but they are a product of the modern (cash-infected) game, we can`t change the raw material overnight so we have to look at optimising the process to get the best from what's available.
Player development at grass-roots level is the key to long-term success but that's a separate issue to the immediate challenge. I grew up in the 60s when kids could go to the local park and join in the perpetual football or rugby match that was always taking place if the weather was reasonably fine. If modern parents saw this nowadays they'd despair; 9yr olds playing against kids 3-4 years older and getting knocked about, no ref, fights breaking out when decisions were disputed........but kids learned how to play in an environment where the result didn`t matter! Nowadays there's competitive under 9s football, with smart kit, overzealous parents....and a total emphasis on winning. This is NOT conducive to developing skills and letting players reach their potential.
Bring back the 'jumpers for goalposts' culture and let kids learn how to play again.....easier said than done! That's the key to a successful international team.........mark my words
Meanwhile, give the England job to Big Sam!
Paul
I know we shouldn't think this way but I thought football was about WINNING.....there is a reason why Allardyce has not managed a top team to date, he's bang average at best and plays negative football.
If our ambitions are to get out of group stages at tournaments and that is it then he might be ok....if he can get us qualified
The fact that he is even being spoken about is an embarrassment.
Thought about this quite a bit. The only English manager can I think of that I could imagine wanting anywhere near that job is Eddie Howe. Really incredible what he has done with the Cherries, also really like the way they play and his football philosophy.
Ok so big Sam as manager? Maybe he does provide what we need. But I feel the FA if they are going to appoint him need to look at appointing his successor too and having a young manager there working with big Sam and gaining the experience to take over. This worked well for Germany. My big worry for Sam is the same as I had for Roy and have for the other name mentioned (Eddie Howe) is the lack of experience at a truly big club. Ok Sam had it at Newcastle but they are not a truly huge club.
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Has Allardyce ever been given funds allowing him to buy without limits or has he always been underfunded?
Genuine question as I can't recall limitless funds at Newcastle or West Ham . At Bolton he had a small budget but still played good football . Okocha was brilliant , Djorkaeff was a WC winner ? They stayed up comfortably year after year, even top 6 once I believe?
This long ball football that he is 'famous' for is a bit of a red herring . He was mainly brought in to teams to stabilise them, save them from relegation etc but it appears he's stuck with it.
But yeah, let's bring Brian Giggs in eh ?
All these managers with big club experience and international pedigree have failed with England. We can't really do much worse so why not try something different and appoint a Shearer or a Scholes. What have we to lose?
After that Panorama investigation i don't think he was ever given massive funds!
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