Reply With QuotePoor Spain. Still, that's what the Euro does for you.
About 'cr@p' cars
The top 5 most sold cars in Spain so far this year:
1. Citroen C4
2. Opel Corsa
3. Seat Leon
4. Seat Ibiza
5. Renault Clio
In the top 10 we furthermore find another Renault and another by Nissan and another by Dacia.
Poor Spain. Still, that's what the Euro does for you.
If we leave the EU we will all be forced to drive remanufactured Skoda Estelles from the early 80'sOriginally Posted by Seamaster73
Its a fact
Is your list from 1996?.
In the UK your list of cars would be driven by either 88 year olds, or used as pool cars by junkies
Last edited by Kiki Picasso; 2nd June 2016 at 20:13.
Nice to see you talking about something you actually do know about OP...
Interesting that someone with Picasso in their username doesn't realise how popular C4 Picassos are with young families (Well, popular in the sense that they do the job of carting lots of kids and junk for relatively little money).Is your list from 1996?.
In the UK your list of cars would be driven by either 88 year olds, or used as pool cars by schemie junkies
We've got a C4 (not a Picasso). It's Ok, nothing special, but no worse than most other cars in that category (Focus probably drives better, Golf is a lot more expensive, especially used).
Clios are very popular though, all over Europe, so no great surprise to see them figure.
Of course, companies and hire companies probably buy a huge proportion of the cars sold in Spain as well as in the UK, so it rather distorts the view of what's popular with private buyers (In the same way you'd assume everyone in the UK wants a Focus, BMW 320d or Audi A4 diesel...).
M
I don't understand your point. None of them are crap cars. There really are no crap cars anymore.
Each and every car on the list represents good value for money and is packed full of the latest safety gear in case they encounter a wildly drifting Daf coming the other way!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is true - Even makes of cars that were a joke 15-20 years ago are actually perfectly decent forms of transport.
That said, our C4 isn't as good as our Xantia was (I think it's true to say that cars are 'better' these days, but less interesting, generally).
M
Nothing particularly surprising or interesting on that list.
My blooming Discovery is crap (at the moment), as the turbo appears to have died and it is going to cost around £2500+ to fix it!
I am not a happy bunny, particularly as I am currently at the start of the process of replacing it with a new HiLux.
Grrr.
As a car lover all I e seen is French tin
Did see a nice Maserati on the motorway
They don't seem to care what they drive
The SEAT seems to be for the "young dude" who has his boom boom stereo on all day
We were in Alicante last autumn and I was strucky by the dullness but newness of all the cars. They were nearly all 5 or less year old dull shopping boxes or crossovers. Very few exec saloons, very few bangers and I think I saw two sportscars a boxster and a mx-5 in two weeks.
Which exactly is my point in response to some jokers here who today still crack those same jokes.
Against that wind I am raising the sail that of all cars a Citroen C4 is the most sold car here and Renault the best selling manufacturer.
l
I would not have a French car even if it was free...the last time I was in Spain i was forced into a Meganne hire car.... 1500km on the clock and it was truly horrible...
Don't be silly, the Spanish buy Spanish cars, if they can't they buy from next door. The Italians do the same thing, as do the Germans, it's just the British that will buy anything that is punted their way.
My sister and family live in Casaris in southern Spain, they are the only people in their street with a non Spanish car.
Last edited by adrianw; 2nd June 2016 at 22:22.
There is little point owning/driving anything decent in Spain/France/Italy - every car usually has dents and scrapes on every panel.
Which probably explains why the list is populated by cheap and cheerful small cars.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I thought everyone in Spain drove a cayenne, mini orbs ssaggythong analprobius?
Sent from the top of a hill using semaphore.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Damn fine cars, here's my old one, cost me £50 with a free bra stuffed down the rear seat.
"A man of little significance"
Only because the UK car industry went belly up when even nationalism could not make up for outdated everything.
Until then the phenomena provided an empire as customer base and so caused the stagnation.
So no, the Brits do not, so much so that it shot their industry in the feet but NOW they have no home option so yes, all is foreign anyway.
Probably soon to be more expensive btw.; Velorum makes a good point.
GREAT picture of the RAC class victories record holder next to a 'sports' image car
Thanks for that one!
You are talking rubbish again, the British government let its car industry go to the wall, whereas the French,German, Spanish and Italian governments unofficially nationalised them and propped them up with huge amounts of money.
The UK government, the unions and crap cars killed our car industry
Right or wrong that is what happend, as again a few years ago when Renault were struggling the French government pilled more money in, even though it was against EU rules.
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You are talking rubbish again, the British government let its car industry go to the wall, whereas the French,German, Spanish and Italian governments unofficially nationalised them and propped them up with huge amounts of money.
The UK government, the unions and crap cars killed our car industry
Right or wrong that is what happend, as again a few years ago when Renault were struggling the French government pilled more money in, even though it was against EU rules.
Interestingly enough taxis in Madrid and Barhelona are predominantly Merhedeseseses
Fas est ab hoste doceri
French cars... sh!te.
cr@p rules
That is both a matter of economics and customer preference.Interestingly enough taxis in Madrid and Barhelona are predominantly Merhedeseseses
Over here in Andalucia there are very few Merc taxis. The Skoda seems to be favorite. In Malaga centre the number of Priussesses is striking.
Ah well Adrian, perception is reality. The result is the same and my point too: Brits don't favor the national flavor because they don't have the option.
@Tifa; good thing you have the Koreans and Skoda to chose from too then.
The British car industry isn't as non existent as you and many others think Petrus.
A quick bit of Googling shows the UK produces roughly 1.55 million vehicles a year, versus 2.45 million in Spain.
The difference is that the UK cars are largely luxury automotive brands versus volume lower cost cars from Spain, and the UK also has a thriving commercial vehicle sector as well.
The automotive sector is incredibly important for the Spanish economy and jobs, and the UK operation provides valuable employment both in the manufacturing and component supply companies.
The facts are, both countries benefit hugely from automotive manufacturing, albeit it is mostly foreign owned in both countries. That is the way of modern manufacturing these days of course.
But just to say, the UK has a thriving high value car industry, thank you very much.
Poor Spain indeed. Do they need a loan?
You say that, I was given a Citroen C-Elysse as a rental last year in Spain and it really is crap (I believe it is only sold in 3 countries and has been built especially cheaply for those markets). When my wife's car decided the day we moved house would be a good day to pack up on the motorway she needed to buy something to replace it quickly, the Hyundai i20 fit the bill for the size she wanted and availability and seemed to have decent kit for the price - 2 years on I can reliably inform everyone it is a tinny crock of **** :o)
Seems to go ok in the WTCC...
Maybe you weren't driving it hard enough!
M
My 2002 Citroen Xsara Picasso is nearing 100,000 miles now, it's become my local runabout since we got a C4 Picasso for longer trips, ferrying daughter twixt home & Uni etc etc. I got the Xsara at 3 years old, ex mobility, as is the C4. The Xsara replaced a 10 year old Nissan Primera as I needed more room as the family grew. The Primera replaced a 3 series BMW and was every bit as solid. Both Xsara and Primera towed a caravan about and took us around France and the Highlands.
F.T.F.A.
Well the Germans, Norwegians and the Chinese have all the money so they're the ones to ask ;-)
The basic numbers and the political spin don't tell the whole truth about the British car industry, Japanese companies use the UK as an LCR and a large weighting in the selection process is employment laws, most cars are assembled (not made) from kits imported from Japan and China. Fundamentally that is also what all of the so called UK luxury car manufacturers do, a large part of my business is manufacturing automotive electronics, we are one of the few manufactures who actually make the stuff in the UK.
The UK automotive industry is a house of cards, with Chinese legislation and import restrictions it could move very quickly, the Evoke is already on it's way.
It was a great car, I could drive it fast (ok, not exactly fast, but I didn't have to slow down) along country lanes, safe in the knowledge I could drive offroad to avoid any oncoming traffic.GREAT picture of the RAC class victories record holder next to a 'sports' image car
Thanks for that one!
The Estelle was the butt of a lot of jokes but in Czechoslovakia they lived forever, there were few spare parts available so people worked out how to keep them running with whatever they had to hand. A friend of mine had been a teacher in the Czech Republic and brought his new wife back to live here. She wasn't impressed at all when he bought the Skoda from me. Her father was though, he'd never seen one in such good condition.
Back to Spain, does Seat not rebadge the Panda 4x4 as a Marbella?
"A man of little significance"
Then there's the amazing statistic that Nissan's plant in Sunderland produces more cars than every plant in Italy combined.
And they say "THATCHER!" killed off manufacturing in the North.
Ive had my megane for just over a year (a 08 plate R26) and I was sceptical about getting a french car but I absolutely love it, happy to commute to work and very quick on track days / quick road driving. Apart from money I have spent making it faster I have not had trouble with it at all. Yes its not got the build quality of my old BMW but at half the price what do you expect. Saying that I plan to keep it for many years as I just love driving it
If Brits exit that will shake some cards too.
@Tooks; you are aware that RR, Bentley, Aston, Jaguar p.e. are assembly plants owned by foreign entities? Of most of their products only the brand name has any Brit heritage.
For the German owned brands, the assembly has a shaky future when the UK leaves the EC.
Thinking of it; we might very well see a 'DAF' built 'British' car in that case; BMW Minis are made in Born too.
Funny that; German owned/designed 'British' classic built by DAF
It's still an assembly operation, the Value add at that plant is about 10% give or take, most of the parts are made in France and China, all of the profits go to France and Japan.
What's your definition of "Assembly plants"...?If Brits exit that will shake some cards too.
@Tooks; you are aware that RR, Bentley, Aston, Jaguar p.e. are assembly plants owned by foreign entities? Of most of their products only the brand name has any Brit heritage.
For the German owned brands, the assembly has a shaky future when the UK leaves the EC.
Thinking of it; we might very well see a 'DAF' built 'British' car in that case; BMW Minis are made in Born too.
Funny that; German owned/designed 'British' classic built by DAF
Aston, for example, build cars from parts built primarily in the UK - It's not like they're shipping in boxes of Astons from Germany or Italy...
Rolls Royce, likewise - Sure a lot of technology comes from BMW, but the bodies and interior are nearly all bespoke and built in the UK.
Jaguar? Where do their parts come from? Nearly EVERYTHING is UK built and sourced (JLR don't buy in much at all and have no car 'parent' - much as AM don't)
Sure Honda and Nissan may sell models mostly assembled from parts from a parent, but most of those other company's you rubbish as having only the name as British 'heritage' are making primarily unique cars.
Do Vauxhall make anything in the UK these days?
Ownership, is another matter, but the world of car manufacturing is, as you know, very global and has been for a long time.
M
'Does' no and the 4x4 never.
The old Panda was produced under license as the Marbella yes, but not the 4x4.
That Fiat deal went belly up a long time ago.
It was followed by Volkswagen using the SEAT plant to produce VWs in Spain.
Currently the SEATS are 'independant' with a main VW interest.
Citroen is producing quite a lot in Spain; afaik all the Cacti (Cactusses?) come from here.
I think part of the C4s popularity is due to them being produced here thus they are just that bit cheaper at the dealers.
Because SOOOO many C3s and C4s are about, all local independents are very well, VERY well versed about them. The most common niggles have proper solutions. Like the dodgy ground contact of rear light unit of the C3. Leave it at the local and a cappuccino later you pay 15 Euros for a permanent, soldered solution.
As was observed, the Spanish top sellers list is a who is who of cheerful, affordable, worry free runabouts.
A well, a detail; that is only where the important decisions are made and the profit goes too ...
Meanwhile cr@p rules
JLR bring in huge % of parts from China, Germany and Eastern Europe, Even McLaren do, there is a play on words between buy in and contract manufactured.
If anyone wants to understand the demise of the 'old' British Car Industry they can do alot worse than read James Ruppert's "The British Car Industry: Our Part in Its Downfall". It's very informative and a jolly good read to boot.
And everyone knows that we actually make far more vehicles per year in this country than we ever did in the 'bad' old days, I believe Honda or Toyota or maybe both even export from the UK back to Japan. And of course there is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcmqTAu6b8
£2,500 to replace a turbo, did it do lots of other damage?
A turbo should be less than £1,000 and even less if you use a reman unit, especially as you're getting shot of it soon.
Sounds like a pretty big bill for a turbo.
Now if you want a really crap car, try an Austin Maestro!
Graham
Parts, sure, but so do BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Renault, FIAT, etc...
In some respect ALL car plants are simply 'assembly' plants, but I don't believe that was what Cilla was getting at (otherwise it becomes a redundant post!).
M
Deja vu 'Swiss' Made.
Bottom line is that:
the nationality of the owner is the heritage owner
the 'Made in' is a play of words
the QC is the crux concerning the 'quality' of what you end up with and that is one on one connected to market positioning.
Sorry, but if you're saying a car maker's 'heritage' is related solely to its owner, I think you're very wrong. (If you're not saying that, feel free to clarify your point).
A Mini is not a 5 Series made small.
A Rolls Royce is not a 3 Series with bells and whistles (Mercedes tried that with Maybach, HUGE success...).
There's a lot more to the character of a car than simply who takes the profits at the end of the day.
A Jaguar XJ is not a Mahindra!
Some owners meddle more than others, but they buy internationally because they find something unique (and it will vary from case to case, sometimes as simple as cheaper manufacturing or access to market) in that purchase.
M
'Heritage' is a non tangible.
Whatever the roots of the origins, the owner is the owner of it ALL and when a brand and the attached notion of heritage are owned by a Nigerian company, the brand o all effects and purposes ARE Nigerian: The decisions will be made there and the profit flows thataway too.
Hence the German designed/owned Mini brand is German even though some are Made in Holland and the heritage of the name is British.
Yes a Mini is a BMW and a LandRover is a Tata.
Nissan a Renault, Ferrari a Fiat and a Porsche a VAG.
Largely but, not entirely true. A friend of mine works for RCI Banque (Renault Finance, basically) and so works with clients who finance Renaults, Nissans and Dacias. Personally, I wouldn't buy any of them but, in the case of the Dacia, customers are actually trying to cancel finance agreements on the 'not fit for purpose' clause as they are literally starting to rust within a year of purchase from new. He says throughout the dealer network, the Dacia Duster is known as the Dacia Ruster.
So, by that logic, Seat's are German then?
The situation regards the UK has been described by adrianw, my question is, what is different about the Spanish car assembly plants?
I'd say not a lot.
You've just confirmed what others have already said, that car brands and car manufacture is a global business now, with assembly plants wherever it is convenient/cost effective or wherever the biggest government subsidy can be had....
Last edited by Tooks; 3rd June 2016 at 11:56.
Yes.
Why or how did you come to the conclusion that I would think assembly plants in Spain are different than in the UK????
Spain does not have, never really did have any home grown automobile industry worth that name. Apart from trucks and such that is.
Because of the relatively low wages and somewhat flexible environmental law application there is more OEM outsourced manufacturing here but that does not change all that much in anything to the principle and is very fluid.
Maybe it was post #24 where you suggested that us poor Brits didn't have the choice of buying UK assembled cars, unlike in good old Spain?
I posted to say that Spain and the UK weren't all that different in reality in that regard.
I'm pleased we agree anyway.
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