Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by jbbusybee
After the P&C response I'll never buy anything from them, it's simple, he tried to muddy the water and blame the customer, any good company would apologise and rectify the issue in an expedient manner, whoever they really felt was at fault. his response is uncaring and condescending, it leaves a very sour taste.
Would make me very wary of P&C and as a big Autodromo fan that's a shame.
Given BusyBee's response I suppose he could always become a politician if he ever needed a career change.
I had my DA37 done locally ( I know it's a simpler watch ) but it was £120 and is running perfectly. They are 'only' ETA after all..
I have to say, I don't think the response here has done Page and Cooper any favours - as someone else in the thread has said, the measure of a company's level of service is in how they handle problems and I can't see that this one has been handled well at all.
I've had some experience of P&C's service, particularly poor expectation management (hint: don't tell someone on the phone that what they've ordered is in stock, then email to say it'll have to be ordered from the factory and will arrive in 3 weeks, then need to be chased 6 weeks later for an update) - not a disaster but not encouraging, especially since I'd have been happy enough if they'd told me it might take that long in the first place.
The trouble with the "go away and take your complaint with you" response above is: I'll never buy anything else from P&C because of what seems to happen if there's a problem!
Another company I expect I won't be dealing with - there is just no need. When a company is trying to compete with AD's and some very good alternatives why change unless they provide exceptional service?
It's just a matter of time...
Terrible way of doing business for any company, its disgraceful.
I don't normally jump on the band wagon for these sorts of threads, however this echos my experience of P&C.
I ordered a couple of Marathon straps and was told they would be sent out in a few days.
They finally arrived 6 weeks later
It was almost impossible to get in touch with them for an update. Although when I did they wanted to sell me another Marathon.
It's a shame as P&C sell a lot of the brands I already own and rather like, the experience made me cautious of using them again, however I had never ruled it out. Their response to this issue and seeing similar (all be it minor) issues to my own has ensured I will likely to go elsewhere for my next purchase. (Hanhart).
It's not the initial sale but the after service that brings in repeat business in my experience.
For any company there is a clear message here. Don't get involved with forums, on any level or basis. Page and Cooper haven't a hope of a balanced or fair hearing. The original complaint was essentially that service was costly and slow.
Every company on planet earth has had such an accusation at some point. Things go wrong in everyday life. The company took the rare (and foolish) step of answering on TZ. And , quite rightly, they declined to discuss the OPs personal business in public. Instead they offered to speak directly to anyone with concerns. A handsome offer, and way beyond what many companies would offer
All they got in response was more hostility. A highly successful business friend prefers to minimise trade with 'forum people'. The treatment of Page and Cooper over a pretty minor complaint shows why. They can't get a fair hearing.
BTW: I know nothing about Page and Cooper; but I do recognise unfair treatment when I see it.
Says the fella who came on moaning about shoddy service from an AD.
Classic thread fail.
When you are holding a loaded gun, don't pull the trigger when it is pointed at your own foot. It is a bad idea.
If you think that coming here and "defending" your standards without providing any evidence and essentially blaming what happened on your customers "particular requests" is doing you any favors, then think again.
If you have nothing constructive to say, then let me suggest you keep your mouth shut and fix what is wrong with your company. Then come here and say what you have done. It would also be nice to hear from a customer of yours who thinks he has received a good service at a competitive price. That might actually help your cause.
Sorry, I can't agree with this. If the reply had been an apology, an explanation, and what was set in place to a) satisfy the customer and b) stop the issue happening again, there would have been unanimous praise.
I get involved in the various forums that my business serves; if there is an issue I deal with it to the satisfaction of the complainant, killing them with kindness if needs be and no matter what the financial cost to me. Reputation is everything, especially nowadays when customers can (and do) vote with their feet.
Last edited by demonloop; 27th May 2016 at 10:26.
^^^^ This. I agree that they would have been better off not responding than doing so in the manner they did.
It also shows a strange lack of understanding how the internet works. If I hear a tale of poor service about someone I could do business with, unless they have a product I so desperately need and cannot get elsewhere, am I going to spend my time calling them so that they can explain their side of the story to me (and possibly give me a load of sales flannel)? Am I hell. I'm going to go elsewhere. P & C need to learn from this and stop being so arrogant.
But they've posted a glossy picture. Shows quality...
+1 btw in case the sarcasm wasn't coming through! ;)
You can buy an Autodromo direct from Bradley. I don't know if there's anything P&C do that means they're the only people who can service the watches.
"A man of little significance"
- Don't turn a "complaint response" into marketing
- And then expect a fair hearing
- Apologise for the situation, "customer is always right" [even if wrong]
- Sort it out privately
IMHO they showed a lack of internet savvy, the huge speel looks like a guilty conscious to me, especially when spun with more marketing. A one liner "sorry for the issues, I will look into it ASAP" would have worked for me...
P&C would not be my first call for a Damasko anyway, are they not more expensive than buying direct...?
Yes but with P&C you are buying the peace of mind of a local agent who will presumably set you straight in the case of warranty issues or ongoing service. Err no hang on...
You guys are a tough lot.
Probably a bad idea for P &C to come here to respond but while they did not grovel as most would have liked, it was a measured and a professional response. Full sympathy for OP for his bad experience and bad publicity for P & C. But, personally I don't think that their response was lacking.
It would Ofcourse be good form for them to contact the OP and apologise in private. But, to have to do it here on forum in front of the lynch mob, nah.
I'm really not sure how P&C can defend themselves over this complaint, not only was it expensive for an ETA service, but it took longer than Rolex would take and when they finally did send it back the work that had been done was incompetent, hair in the dial and badly regulated as well.
Sounds like a Chimps Tea party behind the scenes at P&C, the wise thing to have done would have been to put his hands up, say Sorry we have cocked up badly here, refunded half the service cost and sent the guy a bottle of wine or watch related gift to restore some good will.
I'd certainly never send anything to them for a service and highly likely not buy from them should anything go wrong as clearly the back end customer support does not match the front end sales and marketing spiel.
I've spoken to Jonathan at length on the phone and he was clear his prices are higher than other retailers because of their high level of customer service, that's fine I don't mind paying more for peace of mind but that sounds like hot air when you read this thread.
Those saying that representatives of firms shouldn't participate in forums have never seen any of JC Biver's posts when he was CEO of Hublot. If there was a complaint about anything - dealer, service, etc., Biver posted on the forum that the person should contact him directly via PM with the details and he would personally intervene.
When someone posted a picture of a newly acquired watch Biver invited the buyer to send him details of the watch and his address in order that he could send out a handwritten and signed 12 month extension to the guarantee.
Model behaviour in my view, and I think even people who don't like Hublot very much were tempted to buy one!
Tough yes - but I take the John Lewis ethos where customer issues / problems rarely seem to crop up. I believe they value customer service, over the product in question, and factor this into their P&L. Returning business is worth more to them than an unhappy customer..?
Personally I'm about to enter retail and we as a business will grovel where appropriate, or in doubt...
From their website
The complete maintenance service comprises of the following:
- Dismantling of the case (glass, tube, pushers, helium escape valve, gaskets, bezel, etc.).
- Cleaning (washing) of the case and bracelet if applicable.
- Dismantling of the dial and the hands from the movement.
- Dismantling of the movement into its individual parts.
- Full inspection of all components.
- Repair or replacement of worn or damaged movement parts including mainspring and reverser wheels.
- Cleaning (washing) of the disassembled movement in a machine with specific baths
- Assembling and oiling of the movement in accordance with manufacturer specifications.
- Checking the functions of the movement.
- Re-assembly of the watch with new seals gaskets crowns and pushers.
- Water and pressure resistance testing in line with model specifications.
- Full testing of functions accuracy and power reserve over several days.
- 12 month warranty with full record of service.
FURTHER INFORMATION
- Additional work or parts required outside of the scope of the standard service will be stated and quoted.
- Lead-time for Service / Repair is approximately 4-6 weeks depending on complications.
- You will be advised, where possible, at the time of confirmation and payment, of your expected date of return.
- Your watch will be returned to you via UPS Couriers. You will receive by email full consignment and tracking details on day of dispatch.
- If you decide not to proceed with the Service or Repair quoted above, a £30 administration charge will be applicable.
- For further information please contact us at info@pageandcooper.com.
To be fair, it doesn't say remove all hair prior to return. Also the 'where possible' bit isn't in relation to the date of return but the ability (or willingness) to advise.
Call the guy and ask for Mike Hunt
Respect the past, live the present, protect the future
Maybe if you only paid them when they'd actually completed the work, like every other company I've ever used for servicing, it might make them a bit more responsive?
It feels to me like P&C have a similar attitude to customers that night clubs do.
Not that I've been to either for years of course....
+1, the words 'snippy' and 'dilettante' certainly sprang to my mind when I read his response.
Joe
Aye, the last thing shit sellers want to have to deal with are well-informed punters.
yawn.
I would have to disagree with your comments on the customer service from Damasko. I used them earlier this year as the DA47 I had at the time was running at about -9 seconds per 24 hours. As it was still in warranty I contacted Damasko directly and had quick and efficient communication with them throughout. They first directed me to Page & Cooper as their UK AD to see if they could help and then advised to go back to them directly if that got me nowhere. P&C I found less than helpful. They weren't able to help as they didn't get reimbursed by Damasko for the work (this bit I of course had no issue with) - it was the fact P&C didn't bother even send me a one line email back to communicate this to me and I had to 'phone them to find this out.
So I went back to Damasko and they arranged a pre-paid label to be sent to me to have the watch shipped back to Germany at their cost. The watch was back to me within the week having been regulated under warranty.
I have cut and paste a post I made in another thread not that long ago. It covers my dealings with Damasko direct and P&C at the time. I would reiterate that the watch was not originally purchased from P&C and I have absolutely no issues that they did not want to take the work on (and I am glad they didn't now). The issue I had with them is that they didn't think communicating this fact to me was worthy of their time. I also found them a little curt on the 'phone.
Some may say there seems to be a patten emerging here, or a few even.
Curt, Poor Communication, Disinterest are the words that spring to mind, I think when my DA 37 needs servicing it will be with a trusted "local" watchmaker...
[QUOTE=GrandS;3977599
If You Have Nothing Constructive To Say, Then Let Me Suggest You Keep Your Mouth Shut ........
I bought (and subsequently sold) a Damasko via P&C in the past. Would I buy from them again - yup. Would I buy a Damasko again - oh yes, just waiting for the one that really grabs me to come along. Personal experience will always win the day for me. Would I use them for a service? I would take up Jonathans offer and take it from there.
Try Sorry, what can we do to sort this mess out"
And crazily that's probably all it would have taken.
It's just a matter of time...
That clod from Page & Cooper has ended up coming across like a very poor man's Gerald Ratner.
I had a similar very poor experience with Rolex St James servicing a couple of years ago - and the response from a lot of forum members was quite the opposite, as if it was my fault for expecting a simple fault to be fixed correctly. Just saying 😏
Slagging off Rolex is akin to blasphemy in the middle ages!
What, they charged you more than originally quoted, made you pay upfront, provided a substandard service - and then tried to promote themselves publicly on the thread that you mentioned the bad service you received? Did they put it right in the end?
It's just a matter of time...
Yep, apart from most of those things you just mentioned, exactly the same 😜 - however, it did take 3 visits to ascertain the crown tube was fitted wonky, even the white suited Rolex lady who set and wound the watch for me didn't notice, nor the highly skilled Rolex gnome watchmaker apparently - 3 times - which really grinds my gears. Coincidentally grinding gears was exactly the sound the watch was making until they finally fixed it 😞
As long as it was sorted - but it's still a PITA!
It's just a matter of time...
Bloody hell, why didn't you mention it?Yep, apart from most of those things you just mentioned, exactly the same- however, it did take 3 visits to ascertain the crown tube was fitted wonky, even the white suited Rolex lady who set and wound the watch for me didn't notice, nor the highly skilled Rolex gnome watchmaker apparently - 3 times - which really grinds my gears. Coincidentally grinding gears was exactly the sound the watch was making until they finally fixed it
I strongly disagree. The clear message is that getting involved is very important but it must be done competently, openly, honestly, and without hubris. The great strength of forums is that a business can give its own side of the story and this ensures balance, if they understand how to play it and accept responsibility for error. What we are seeing now is, surely, a fair response to the message that was actually posted. The fair hearing has been had and P&C's case was badly presented (regardless of any underlying facts).
Except the OP when he was trying to contact them, it would seem. And discussing an issue with an individual in private with third parties is hardly what I'd call professional.
This was surely an inevitable result of the way they presented their case here.
They were able to post as many message as they wanted to put their side of the story. They chose to post as they did. What part of this do you think was not an absolutely fair hearing.
The key thing with forums is that they give businesses an unprecedented chance to engage with their customers and wouldbe customers and to recognise and make good errors in public. The trick is to do this in a positive manner rather than a defensive manner, taking responsibility for errors, taking responsibility for correcting them, and showing no hubris (even if they privately think it was the customer's fault). Yes, it's easy to get this wrong but that doesn't mean that there has been any unfairness or that they had anything other than a balanced hearing.
This. Positive engagement is everything.
Last edited by markrlondon; 28th May 2016 at 02:44.
Fully agree with the "get involved" comments. We live in a digital world where most transactions take place, companies need to invest time in managing their presence no matter what their size.
To the original issue. This could all have been avoided with better communication. Excusing a company from doing this well because of size doesn't cut it for me. When I first started in client facing work many moons ago I was told clearly "take the problem away from the customer, reassure them you will resolve it, then sort it out". If you do that, communicate regularly, you'll have a happy client.
If P&C had called Tony, discussed the points raised and reassured him they could meet his request, maybe they'd have had a better result.
As to busybee's post, if I were him I'd have called Tony personally before making that post, apologised profusely for the lower-than-expected service, reassured him that I would personally ensure any rectifications would be done post haste and at least refunded him costs of postage as a goodwill gesture.
This stuff is not hard.
It is quite hard actually, at least judging by how many companies seem to struggle with it. If you do have the good fortune to deal with a company that gets it right, reward them by taking your business there again.
Anyone take Mr Busy Bee up on his generous offer of a phone call?
On *hard*, we'll perhaps have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.
It is really not hard to do, I do it every single day with clients who are incredibly demanding. It takes a lot of effort but it is not *hard*.
Totally agree on your latter point though
Guys if Biver can sign in on time zone and offer warranty extensions to hublot buyers and answer questions, I dun see how PC couldn't have done a better job.
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6,000+ views and 140+ posts in 2 days. P & C are certainly getting a lot of attention. Shame for them it's not the right sort. Or is it shame on them?
they could have used this as an "opportunity" to set it right and get positive feedback from the watch community. This tiny incident has potential to turn into an avalanche as its shared in other forums etx
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Havnt seen an own goal like this since the bremont debacle.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Didn't do them too much harm, did it?
New here, son?
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