Any advise / help would be greatly appreciated…
Just received £300 pounds worth of omega mesh from Cousins, the Omega plastic packaging had been opened and taped back…
The seatbelt clasp does not engage in all the three holes at once, it closes but wobbles as it is held by the small slot only - which I’m 99% sure is not right [please correct me if I’m wrong I will publicly apologise to Cousins]…
Under their terms there is no returns on this item, even faulty and re-sealed packaging, as the online conversation with Cousins has proved so far...
Feel properly shafted, and really stupid, I know their policy but thought omega packaging is sealed, its not a complicated item, etc and it would be a safe bet. Should have gone to the boutique [cheaper] but it was a time issue…
I could cancel the credit card transaction but I as I agreed to their terms, I think I would in the wrong legally - unless somebody knows any different, or has any recommendations…?
Sounds like illegal terms and conditions to me. Goods have to be of merchantable quality, whatever the seller says about returns being allowed or not. If this is faulty they must refund, unless the fault was specifically described at the time of the sale.
This crops up time and time again with Cousins and yet there are still those on here who defend them to the hilt. I am in agreement with the above post in that you should reject the goods, send them back by Special Delivery and enclose a note explaining that you are rejecting the goods due to them not being fit for purpose as they were received damaged. If they don't refund you then claim on your credit card coverage if that is indeed how you paid. I am all for the business protecting themselves from time wasters and amateurs by refusing returns where the buyer has made an error, however, selling defective goods and washing their hands of them is borderline criminal IMO. Certainly unethical anyhow.
Last edited by Padders; 10th May 2016 at 15:07.
How can there be no returns even if something is faulty or packaging opened? Wasn't there a long thread a while back on distance selling law on the UK and in short you do have the right to return it.
Otherwise it's just bonkers, they can pretty much send out what they want.
They like to avoid consumer protection legislation by ensuring that they only deal with business purchasers. That's fine and legitimate in my view. Many trade distributors in other fields (e.g. IT) do the same thing and it is considered perfectly acceptable.Originally Posted by 2kilo
But they still can't wiggle out of remedying the supply of faulty goods. Were the goods described as faulty when you bought them? If not (of course not, I presume!) then, assuming these goods are faulty, they still owe you working goods or your money back. If they won't fulfil their contract to supply working goods then either do a CC chargeback or sue them.
(Personally in your position I wouldn't do a Section 75 credit card claim in this scenario as that is only for consumers and, having agreed to be a customer of Cousins, you have already agreed that you are a business buyer and not a consumer. However, a credit card chargeback is still open to you as a business buyer).
Last edited by markrlondon; 10th May 2016 at 15:50.
Distance selling laws are for consumers and Cousins, in common with many other trade distributors in other fields, refuses to deal with consumers. They specifically require all new customers to confirm that they are a business, not a consumer. I personally don't have a problem with that. It's normal business practice for trade disties to only deal with other businesses.
But it doesn't mean they can get away with anything.
No, they still need to do what they say they are going to do. Even without consumer protection legislation applying, they still need to abide by their contracts. It seems that they try to use their Ts&Cs to try and wiggle out of responsibility when supplying faulty goods but that won't save them: Unless the goods were described as faulty/seconds or similar then one way or another they'll have to supply working goods (since that is what the buyer thought he was buying) or a refund.
I have had a number of these bracelets and have just checked my current one.
The tongue has two punched out square holes into which two corresponding square 'indentations' in the opening clasp part fit. You are quite correct in stating that it is all held together by a small tongue in a slot which is correct. There is a little movement in my bracelet too which I think is usual.
As a security check I always try to separate the bracelet when clasp is closed to check everything has engaged correctly and it does usually pull out a fraction.
When opening the clasp I always put the watch face down on my knee first - the clasp can swing back and this protects the watch.
As long as the spring is tight the clasp will not open but these springs have been know to fail.
Having said that they are strong bracelets but can be a little fiddly to operate.
Returning an item requires you to use their online form - but when "faulty" is listed as the reason a polite notice pops up saying "sorry no can do"...
Had to say it was "an incorrect item" before it would to allow any communication...
Calling them ends up nowhere...
Thanks, before I vent at Cousins I have uploaded a vid of the issue - I could be totally wrong but I don't remember the clasp moving this much on my last one...? It seems to click out of it locations, see end of vid...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFJL...ature=youtu.be
Wow that looks bad and my one certainly does not do that.
You bought a new item, they sent you an opened and seemingly faulty item, they failed to deliver.
You're not looking to RETURN an item, you're waiting for them to deliver what you bought and paid for...
Small claims court will rip them a new one, dodgy trading 'terms' or not (although they'll probably back down before incurring that cost).
I've had no problems with them, but it does put me off spending a lot with them, when I hear things like this.
If you bought that in as a watch repairer, would you consider it acceptable to have to pay for two if it was in that condition? No, of course not and no hiding behind terms allows them to sell substandard merchandise with no recourse...
M
^^^ Exactly.
so far they say no...
what do people reckon I should say...?
The item received "was not fit for purpose", and "faulty on arrival". It also was re-sealed therefore "not as described", and finally an "incorrect order"...
I believe trade laws override his T&Cs
Last edited by 2kilo; 10th May 2016 at 22:42.
Unless they have a letterbox, cancel the credit transaction. Stat.
so you cant return a faulty item - what rubbish
How does the manufacturer know that it didn't leave them in that condition, have they examined the bracelet already?
"If you were able to purchase direct from the manufacturer they would not allow you to return them as faulty,..."
You are no able to purchase direct from the manufacturer.
"They state that it was was not in this condition or faulty at the time of purchase / supply..."
If they supplied it serviceable, and you received it unserviceable, it must be the responsibility of the person(s) in-between those two, i.e. Cousins.
Sounds like complete rubbish go through your credit card, you have purchased faulty/damaged goods and they are refusing to return them.
And businesses wonder why people insist on going by credit card/PayPal it's because they don't want to be held hostage to nonsense like this.
It may also of course be the courier's fault but ultimately this too is Cousin's problem rather than the customer's.
I will happily cancel with my credit card but does anyone know if I'm liable having said yes to their T&Cs...?
Their terms also state "Your existing statutory rights are not affected by these conditions" which conflicts with there current "no return" stance...?
If they've got a letterbox, you know what to do.
I think fitness for purpose and merchantable quality, not to mention distance selling regs will override their stance regardless of what they would like the law to say.
I think they are a bunch of twits... Just buy directly from Omega in the future.
Shocking service from them!
Please don't let them get away with this, that is properly scummy.
I'm sure Samuel Cousins has chimed in before on these kind of posts before on TZ.
I would switch suppliers in a heartbeat if anybody has as much stock as them.
Customer Service: 0/10
Eh? Maybe I'm missing something but this whole business buyer thing seems like nonsense. As a business you are somehow expected / obliged to accept defective goods? Can't imagine that would ever stand up in court, if it ever got that far, which it wouldn't. Absolute codswallop.
Edit I forgot to add that you should cancel the cash transfer immediately if possible (once the transfer is stopped / refunded then you hold all the cards), send them an email stating why you were forced into this course of action, if possible return the defective item immediately, if not then at least offer to (or suggest that they can collect it), then sit back and let them worry about it.
Last edited by cad monkey; 10th May 2016 at 22:30.
Well his e-mail response is on this thread so that's going to need some explaining.
Distance sale? YES!
See:-
https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distan...esses/overview
I'm amazed they even have the audacity to try this on.
Their [lack of] contact page sums it up really...
https://www.cousinsuk.com/page/contactus
My Cousins "returns" communication thread was shutdown after the last response...
With no other obvious email facility I started a new "returns" form...
Had to use the "incorrect order" option again as "faulty" won't let you proceed with communication...
Why not just write to them and just ignore their 'returns' nonsense?
Their address is on the same page
Cousins Material House Ltd
Unit J, Chesham Close
Romford
Essex
RM7 7PJ
United Kingdom
Last edited by cad monkey; 10th May 2016 at 22:20.
Yep, was going to but...
"Distance Selling Laws" have been replaced with "Consumer Contracts" and I have mixed results with the "The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002"....
Last edited by 2kilo; 10th May 2016 at 23:12.
Why not just give them a call?
Telephone:
+44 (0)1708 757800 (10.00am-12.30pm, 1.30pm-4.00pm GMT)
First thing I tried - they refuse to discuss or pass on to a manager, "please use the online returns form"...
Because, when push comes to shove, everyone gets amnesia about phone calls?
Good man, best of luck with it.
(By the way you were asking about liability earlier, I reckon your maximum liability here is £300 which at the moment they have anyway.
Get your money back then worry about liability. You'll be fine though.)
Hang on, you've backtracked
I really think you're overthinking this. Forget consumer law. The basic point is that they had a contract with you to send you certain goods for a certain price. According to you the goods were defective. That being the case they have breached the contract, end of.
Yep you are right...
This!
So in short, company sells defective goods, customer complains and asks for money back and company says "Well the people who we got it off wouldn't give you a refund if you bought from them so we aren't either" Customer challenges this nonsense and company proceeds to bury head in sand.
Who on earth buys from these people?
Well, to be fair, I've actually bought from them several times and never had a problem.
Just one of those things I suppose.
Exactly what position is Cousins taking here? I haven't bought anything from them yet, but I have set up an account with them. In the past I have had daily dealings with distributors, in the order of millions of pounds worth of computer equipment annually, so in theory I know what to expect.
It is pretty normal for a trade distributor (which is what Cousins claim to be) to refuse all requests for refunds. I don't have a problem with that at all. It just means don't buy anything from them unless you're really sure you want/need it. Be prepared to sell it on yourself if it turns out to be unsuitable (but not faulty).
It is not normal at all for a distributor to refuse to accept returns of faulty goods, as long as you go through their RMA process and are only asking for a replacement. Manufacturers will typically not accept returns directly. That's what distributors are for, in the same way that distributors will not deal with retail customers. The only exception to this is when a manufacturer provides an extended warranty and the item is more than 12 months old, but still in the manufacturer's extended warranty period. In that case, it depends on the warranty terms.
And, as others have stated, the distance selling / consumer contracts regulations do not apply here because you agreed to a contract as a business (which means you cannot also be a "consumer"). However, standard contract law does apply, meaning you do have a right to the goods you paid for and Cousins is obligated to supply them or put right any failure to do so on their part. Your contract is with Cousins, not the manufacturer, so they don't have a right to fob you off onto them (even if they would deal with you, which they probably won't). You just don't have a right to cancel that contract (i.e., to ask for a refund).
I have experienced the very same from cousins too, genuine parts, OEM packaging opened and resealed, where I questioned them, they fobbed me off stating they simply has inspected the quality of the parts prior to selling them. No recourse either.
I too have fallen foul of their shoddy business practices, lousy customer support and poor quality goods. I bought a strap and deployant clasp. Ironically the strap was often recommended on here but it was poor quality and the deployant clasp wouldn't open or close. I obviously tried to return it (Why do they have a faulty goods option if they know they won't do anything about it) and each time they closed my claim. I think I must have raised six returns against them. I returned the goods despite them ignoring me and mysteriously they got lost in the post. BUYER BEWARE and AVOID spring to mind. I know they are often recommended on here but I can't. I tried contacting trading standards about them as my brother works in retail and he told me that they can't send out faulty goods, whether you are an ordinary punter or a business but I never heard anything. I gave up and put it down to bad experience. Hopefully this thread and others will discourage non-business customers from using them as I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
Last edited by doubledee; 11th May 2016 at 06:55.
They must give returns to the larger business customers. Maybe one of the watchmakers can comfirm?
Ordering ships spares nowadays or car parts in my previous life, returns have always been honoured and credited to the account. If not, I would use someone else.
Can a consumer, in law, waive their right to consumer protection when they aren't in fact a business? Just idly wondering!
Equally that would raise the question of whether said consumer had committed fraud in doing so.
Any person can be a sole trader business. It has no special legal requirements other than that you say you are one. Typically you'd set up a bank account in the business name, but AFAIK you don't have to. E.g., if you were a self-employed, cash-in-hand window cleaner or something like that, you wouldn't even need a bank account, but you'd still legally be a sole trader.
IANAL, but I suspect in this case the act of entering a contract as a business entity creates that entity if it did not already exist. Which is to say the contract is not with Joe Bloggs the consumer, but Joe Bloggs, sole trader.
Nope, not a bean. Watchmaker or not.
They drop ship most of the bigger items in stock and if a fault develops they pass you on to the manufacturer and wipe there hands clean.
C'mon guys wake up! Don't buy from this company unless you really have to, there are others out there who do a even better job, take HS Walsh (and many more) for example. Never had a issue and you can speak to a actual person rather than some mind call center staff who's sole job is to refer everyone to 'use the online form'.
And don't get me started on the new card fee processing charge! They must be making a mint !
Just looked at the video and I'm struggling to see how the thing is faulty or has become damaged. There is a lot of freeplay if the clasp is lifted after closing, but does this translate to movement on the wrist? Probably not in my opinion. I think this is a case of poor quality rather than faulty; if the tang was thicker I suspect the clasp would feel a lot more snug.
I think this is the crux of the issue; is the item faulty or not? I can understand the OP being disappointed with the quality, Some of the Omega replacement bracelets are poor, they're no better than the £20 stuff and that's a good reason for not buying them.
If it was definitely faulty , I would return it by recorded delivery post with a covering letter addressed to Anthony Cousins. I've done this myself in the past in a similar situation and was sent a replacement item. However, the question to me is whether the bracelet's faulty or not; I don't think the video proves it is.
As for Cousins, I only deal with them when I have to. If the OP could get the same item cheaper at an Omega shop why didn't he do that? Given his previous criticism of Cousins and his support for Swatch Group curtailing supply of Omega parts to Cousins, I find this strange.
Paul
Even if they drop ship they are still responsible for the safe arrival of merchantable goods. The only reason they are still in business this way is that people moan on here but continue to take the pain anyway.Nope, not a bean. Watchmaker or not.
They drop ship most of the bigger items in stock and if a fault develops they pass you on to the manufacturer and wipe there hands clean.
C'mon guys wake up! Don't buy from this company unless you really have to, there are others out there who do a even better job, take HS Walsh (and many more) for example. Never had a issue and you can speak to a actual person rather than some mind call center staff who's sole job is to refer everyone to 'use the online form'.
And don't get me started on the new card fee processing charge! They must be making a mint !
Mind you, Walsh once refused to credit me when it's parcel didn't arrive. So I've long given up and now use only Swiss outfits for watch bits. They're more expensive, but the main difference is they stand by their word and always deliver.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
