Reply With QuoteI'm sure you've seen this one from a RN diver..
http://www.watches.co.uk/rolex-vinta...58&network=pla
Hi all,
Would it be unrealistic to place a WTT a 5711 with a DRSD?
I know they are 2 very different pieces, but are they similar value-wise?
I love my 5711 but I could get another one fairly easily, the DRSD on the other hand I would only buy from one of you as I would need someone to hold my hand through the mine field.
It is just a thought, no "place a WTT and you'll find out" kind of replies please.
Thanks in advance.
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I'm sure you've seen this one from a RN diver..
http://www.watches.co.uk/rolex-vinta...58&network=pla
Yep, I'll probably ask them to see it on Friday.
The problem is that I have no idea what to look for, other than 'do I like it, would I wear it'.
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Gab,
On the face of it, it sounds like a trade that someone may be interested in - test the waters in WTB (WTT) to be sure.
The prices of the DRSD differ widely depending on which dial you set your heart on. The patent pending mark 1s and tropical mark 2s with the slimmer Submariner style case are extremely expensive and people who own those tend not to part with them.
Most owners of DRSDs tend to end up with a Mark 3 or 4. Prices on Chrono 24 and e-bay can start at around £16k and go into the low £30ks for a watch in top condition with B&P and some history.
There are literally 101 things to get your head around before jumping in. Try this site and click on watch info if you are not familiar with it.
http://www.doubleredseadweller.com
One of the best watches I have seen listed is linked below.
http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/watche...ler-double-red
Seems to be a full set for a very competitive price, even has a 9315 bracelet. The site has it listed for sale.
Not an expert by any means, but happy to help if I can.
Ken
Originally Posted by TimeOut
Really interesting watch but I don't understand the last sentence -
"Please note - due to the age of this watch water resistancy could not be guaranteed by Rolex. We would advise to avoid water contact with this watch"
Seriously? could not be guaranteed WR by Rolex after a service bearing in mind the watch should be good for 2000ft, I might understand this statement if it was a vintage DJ but not a late 70's SD, it must have had new seals as part of the service and a minimum dry vacuum test?
Thanks Ken,
I think I'll take your advice and do some research before placing a WTT.
In the meantime hopefully I'll have a look at the one at watches.co.uk in the metal.
My fixation comes from a work colleague who had one, bought for $160 in the Bahamas many moons ago, who keeps telling me stories about it, lost in the sea, found 1 week later by accident, sold for 13k 6 years ago, etc...
When I really think about it I can't see myself parting from my nautilus...
Thanks again.
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I think that is more commonsense rather than anything else. The bulk of the value of that watch is in the dial and even after a service no owner in their right mind would go in the water in it. I think they are just covering themselves in case of problems. Water can also get in via the crown and the crystal.
If you want to swim or dive in a watch, buy new, not a £20k vintage Rolex.
^^^^^
That is sage advice.
Yes I understand your point and thought that to be the advice of say an independent/collector, but what concerned me was Rolex so say making that statement about a deep water watch that has just had a service..
From what I have read Rolex are not concerned with "vintage" only making sure that the watches that are out there are the best they can be, hence why they change hands/dials..
If it were an AD selling it, you wouldn't see such statement. They'll tell you that WR is guaranteed. A relatively small grey dealer? Don't wear it when it's cloudy just in case.
I had a 40 year old superdome crystal fitted to a vintage Rolex by a professional watchmaker. He pressure tested it and it passed 8 bar testing. His advice was still, your are more than covered for everyday use, rain, humidity, sweat - but don't go swimming in it.
when the plexi crystal is replaced the chapter ring can cause minuscule splits in the crystal, sometimes not visable to the eye.
If it's immersed, that's a dial trashed especially given the value is in the dial normally. There's plenty on VRF about it, if you are so inclined.
Totally agree, I started a thread a while back with a very good write up from a chap named Arthur on the dangers of vintage crystals.
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...-no-not-again)
Don't get me wrong I agree, if it were mine then I would not get it wet, I have several low value divers that I take off when getting in the shower, not worried about getting them wet but it's just easier..
I was just a little surprised Rolex would make such a statement about one of their high end divers..
It is actually quite normal for Rolex to state this. The reasons are stated by ghosty and linked to in the post highlighted by Wallaseyrunner.
Last edited by chris56; 4th May 2016 at 21:19.
To clarify a little further. If you left it to Rolex murkywaters is correct, they would replace whatever was needed to achieve modern day standards, but if Joe Collector hands his vintage watch in for a movement service and instructs that under no circumstance is the superdome crystal to be replaced - then Rolex will place their caveat on the watch when giving it back, because Joe's instructions have potentially compromised the watch.
I was surprised too that this came from Rolex. As far as I know, they would only issue the Rolex Service Card (as listed with this DRSD) if they have serviced it fully with a guarantee of waterproofing, replacing the necessary parts such as crown and crystal to ensure this. When I had my 5513 serviced at St. James, the choices were a movement-only service with no parts replaced and no guarantee of waterproofing and only a "yellow ticket" issued, or the full monty with WR guaranteed and Service Card issued. I chose the former and have the yellow ticket.
Of course, there is no way I would let this DRSD near water, regardless of any guarantee, but I understood the Service Card to be a WR guarantee from Rolex.
To the original question. I think you may have to put in a few £k cash to make it work though you never know.
Interesting question, I'm looking for a 5711 and have a lovely Mk3 DRSD.
Would I trade? I don't think so, for the reasons you quoted yourself, not so easy to source the two lines of red ink.
Yes and as I said not unusual to see this on a watch like a DRSD or such like that has been serviced by Rolex. I would guess at least 9 out of every 10 DRSD owners know that allowing Rolex to replace valuable parts such as the Superdome crystal etc will devalue the watch significantly and therefore you see this disclaimer on most DRSD that have been serviced by Rolex - my Mk IV has such a disclaimer again due to the Superdome.
If I bought a watch like a DRSD it would go straight in the bank vault along with my bearer bonds and suchlike, until an opportunity to sell on at a profit arose. At this price level, you can't wear an appreciating "asset" like this as a watch, let alone go swimming with it; the risk of further scratches or damage not attributable to the previous owner (and which would thus erode the return on disposal) is far too great.
Last edited by andrew; 5th May 2016 at 14:49.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Did Rolex still issue a Service Card?
Fortunately not one of the double red owners I know feel the same way.
They are not made of gold but steel and are tool watches
True, but it's about frame of reference. To a mortal, someone not in the top 0.5% or so, a £20,000 watch bought mainly for the purpose of capital growth is a thing of great fragility; a little jewel whose value could be slashed in an instant of slight misfortune. But to the very wealthy, dealing in millions for whom £20,000 is like £20 to me, I am sure they are happy to wear them whilst doing... well, whatever it is they do (presumably not the gardening!).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I think most DRSD owners are in the middle. I own a 5711 and I wear it almost every day. I wouldn't do gardening or heavy DIY with it but it would never seat in the safe. It belongs to my wrist.
It is not about money really, would you paint with your best suit on? Wear a silk tie with your pyjama?
My colleague who used to own a DRSD, just wore it every day for 35 years, the final 5 knowing perfectly well that it was worth, back then, 13k+. He was an amateur diver and used to dive with it.
He earns "only" about 30k per year. Hardly 1%.
I wear mine when ever I can but not for work, drop me a PM.
Is it for sale??I wear mine when ever I can but not for work, drop me a PM.
And here it is:
Or shall is say "it was"...
I must admit it is a very lovely watch. I'm far from being an expert but I do get the 2 red lines premium.
If only I had enough disposable income...
Maybe in a few years... When the price is going to be 25k :-(
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Indeed so but having had it for 35 years, it wasn't a £20,000 investment ;). The sheer scale of that investment - you'd have to earn over £30,000 to afford a single DRSD investment unit, which is more than the average annual salary - means that people buying one now (rather than having owned one for decades) are wealthy, already wealthy through the accumulation of previous assets which pay dividends, or through very high income.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
There are of course different methods used to buy. I could never afford one when I was working, but when I took early retirement I used a chunk of my lump sum to buy one as a retirement present to myself - very much a one off purchase. I later sold it and the guy buying told me he was buying with an inheritance following a family bereavement. So both of us were buyers, but neither of us used our normal income as such.
Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 6th May 2016 at 13:33.
I see your point.
I still believe that some, if not most, watch lovers who own watches worth 20k+ are not in the 1%.
I'm one of them for sure.
When I bought my 5711 someone at work assumed I had won the lottery and that I was going to show up with an Aston Martin to go with it soon.
I still drive my crappy Peugeot :-) and live in a fairly modest house. Just decided to treat myself, long time ago, and started saving for it.
Am I the only one willing to sacrifice some disposable income and save over few years to own something I like? Surely not.
But I see your point :-)
Don't get me wrong, five years ago a ten-grand DRSD would have been a great investment opportunity, doubling your money in five years in a zero-growth environment. Brilliant. But there are other forces at play - the very great amount of knowledge you'd have to acquire in order to be sure that a given sub-genre of a watch family was a big capital growth opportunity, the risk attached to its residual asset value on disposal, and the marital discord that may well ensue ("it's an investment, honest, not just a Rolex that I really like"). Certainly, plenty of people save their disposable income to buy something fabulous - even if it's only a generous annuity to sustain them in their old age.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Although people rightly regard a watch as not an investment, if you buy the right Vintage Rolex in the correct condition and with some history, logically the price is only going one way. We all saw Mike Wood's report from his get together with the big boys. The prices of the watches pictured in that report will have rocketed over the past 10 to 15 years. The good examples are mostly in private collections and therefore there are fewer and fewer coming to market. Supply and demand dictates that if you want to bid for a top condition Mil Sub or Paul Newman Daytona you are going to have to dig deep.
DRSDs are not far behind in the pecking order of desirable watches to own and whilst the two earlier examples are now both into 3 figures a good mark 3 or 4 DRSD can still be had for under £20k.
Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 6th May 2016 at 15:27.
I understand but I think we are seeing this from different angles.
If you look at a DRSD as an investment, you might be right.
For me is just an expensive watch I like. Once it gets on my wrist, if I like it, it's going to stay there. At that point I'm not walking around with 20k on my wrist, but with a watch that happens to be expensive. If it loses or gains value it's irrelevant for me at that point. That is how I look at my 5711 anyway.
And that is why watches, for me, are a very bad investment. :-)
I assume that this is the one in watches.co.uk - did you raise the subject of a trade involving the PP ?
No, I didn't. As I said I wouldn't buy from a dealer. Just from one of you guys. I trust the forum more than them.
Although my first impressions of the guys working there was really positive. We had a long chat about watches and work.
Pleasant experience so far, let's see if they deliver...
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Very nice but has a service insert.And here it is:
Or shall is say "it was"...
I must admit it is a very lovely watch. I'm far from being an expert but I do get the 2 red lines premium.
If only I had enough disposable income...
Maybe in a few years... When the price is going to be 25k :-(
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Yep, the original is included but not fitted.
That is good news for the buyer, original mark 3 fat font inserts can easilly cost into four figures.
Can't be a bad buy at £20k surely?
Provenance, RSC service, original bits, reputable seller.
I would agree, there are things you would need to check when you get there, but absolutely on paper it does look like a nice example and very rare to get one with diving history from the original owner - that type of stuff is more common with Comex watches.
And minty fresh from a service.
Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 6th May 2016 at 18:00.
Not original hands. Replaced with period one. (Not sure if it makes a difference)
Most people expect the hands to match the dial and as long as that is achieved, how would any collector know if they are the original hands or a replacement set that match the dial. Either have to be better than yellowing plots on the dial with brand new white hands.
The crystal looks like a service replacement rather than an original superdome, which tends to distort the markers slightly in photos. I am also not sure about the other insert, I think that could be a service replacement from an earlier service rather than the original fat font insert - it is difficult to tell from the sellers images, but you cannot expand them to get a better look. I would be inclined to regard it as an earlier service replacement until proved otherwise.
I still think it is a nice watch with potentially a lot going for it.
Beautiful exampleI wear mine when ever I can but not for work, drop me a PM.
Thanks it is also a one owner watch serviced but never polished and has been well worn but is 100% original with a super dome.
I definitely wouldn't trade that for a 5711,........ or anything! Beautiful!
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