Reply With QuoteLooks like same dial, yes. Gave up on ebay long ago :-(
H
Now don't get me wrong, I am not judging anything or anyone, but does anyone else spot something a little odd with these items on ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ULTRA-RARE...MAAOSwQgpW~cKC
Now compare the dial in the watch with this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROLEX-SUBM...8AAOSwZQxW2Zdc
It it just me or are these dials identical.
If so are they the same dial? or someone making 5513's (dials) with patina?
A bit scary.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Looks like same dial, yes. Gave up on ebay long ago :-(
H
The X is a mile away from the ROLE too
Looks like mass produced fakes to me
If there is a difference between the dials I'm struggling to see it.
Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton
Haywood, do you think its physically the same dial or do you think someone might be "recreating dials", perhaps the folks in Vietnam again. Neither is a good option to be honest.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
They're both afflicted by patina which fails to reach the corners of triangle and rectangles.
Which is odd, because you would have thought corners of the something would be the quickest to age?
Perhaps they need to apply the dirt with a sharper piece of potato.
Only an opinion, but I think it more likely to be the very same dial.
H
For me, the discolouration geometry in the 12 o'clock triangle is too similar for chance. Also the 'divot' in the 10 o'clock circle marker is same-same.
I believe the oxidation would be very unlikely to give a similar staining profile.
So, I reckon they are ringers.
The same real dial or the same fake dial ?
Either way some kind of scam here
How on earth did you spot that in the first place?!
If they are different dials then they have inveted a tea-stain printing machine producing awfully discoloured dials. They look grubby, not patinated.
At second glance I suspect the image in the dial-only listing is just one of a batch of horribly mutilated (but different) fake dials and is also the one he decided to ship and ended up in the watch listing.
Last edited by stooo; 19th April 2016 at 14:40.
Identical dials imho.
Look to be from the same print run.
I've messaged the seller of the watch, will report any reply
the 2 marker - has small black line in its 8 position
3 marker - split by a darker patina
4-5-6-7 markers : same discoloration.
12 - same discoloration
660ft - 2nd "6", twisted
and more
T.
Thanks Chris, nailed it. Way beyond my abilityLook to be from the same print run.
I have also now concluded that the dial(s) are fake - check out the 660 - nasty.
But hopefully someone will not get burnt
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I am sad :-)
But also an owner of a 5513 meters first and was thinking about getting a second one - a good investment.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
tea bag job - there are red sub, double red sub and all sorts of remade dials out there
but can't say I ever saw 2 with the same patina.
Conclusion is the photo is a stock photo of patina'd production run of copies
and the rolex happens to have the same one installed as the stock photo
or they are laser printed/3d printed all exactly the same (like a ceramic tile)
It's inevitable that this will happen given the value placed on having a dial with what appears to be original patina.
If these were being sold honestly, as repro items and priced accordingly, that would be different......... But as with all these things it's the intention to deceive that's out of order.
Paul
I think that there is little doubt whatsoever that it is the very same dial.
Seems to be a complete minefield.
Wow, they are identical - I very much doubt this 'patina' could be replicated.
Good spot Andy
Yes, very good spot.
This is extremely worrying, but not unexpected, where so much money relies on just a watch face, and I know a thing or two about that!!.
Technological advances are making the process of spotting fake dials almost impossible.
I wouldn't be at all suprised to find that these were indeed different dials that have been printed using the same software and hardware. If the patina pattern was changed between printing, we would be none the wiser as the dials would be dissimilar enough to not raise any flags. The feedback of the sellers is also worryingly good.
More power to Hayward, Jed & Mike. Buying from them, you're sure of what you're getting...
Very happy to be corrected and hopefully wrong, but is most of that ebayer's stock dodgy?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-...oAAOSw3ydVjzYV
The R of Rolex looks naff, the V in Superlative is curved/bending and the C in Officially rises above the other letters.
The Ulysse Nardin looks rough too.
I am guessing and learning.
Thanks
...and now I'm really out of my depth but I can't think to trust the "Patek Phillipe & C Geneve" on the dial - it looks hand written!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXTREMELY-...0AAOSwu4BVqaD~
Again, learning, so apologies if I am casting aspersions against a reliable vendor.
And a 5513 service (luminova) dial, for 600 GBP!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-FANTAS...gAAOSw2ENW7ekK
But if the experts do and/or are asked their view, we all learn more. Like Haywood's excellent post about a near perfect Rolex dial but other things missed.
It would be a shame if the expertise wasn't maintained, updated and commented on so that novice buyers could find this forum and learn what to watch out for.
I cannot believe you guys think that the 5513 dial is massed produced, yes its the same dial for sure but the dial is 100% original Rolex anybody who knows anything about Rolex dials can see that this dial is 100% original you cannot make the patina look like this it happens over age.
Alas I think you will find they can and have, for many years.
There is an reference of dials of the Vintage Rolex Forum to use http://vintagerolexmarket.com/
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
This is not I'm sorry but anybody who thinks this is not original does not know what there talking about.
Fair enough. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I am interested to hear why you believe that it genuine.
It does not however explain how two dials seem exist which are identical.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
The dial was sold to the new owner of the watch and the dial was not taken of ebay, also why I know its original because ive been collecting vintage Rolex watches for many years and the dial is correct.
Why don't we ask some real experts and see who's correct and who's not anybody with real experience will tell in 2 seconds and yes everybody is entitled to there opinions I'm just pointing out the facts, not offending anybody here I hope its not my intentions.
There are people here who put their Rolexes in the oven. One guy wants to force his new Explorer II to have patina by locking it in a glass box and leaving it on his porch for a month (he lives in Arizona or some place). However mad you think people can be, they are madder.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
So what do we think has actually gone on here? One person selling the dial, another person selling a watch with manifestly that very dial, both auctions ending on the same day... What's that about?
I think I know
The dial was sold to the new owner say 1 month ago (I don't know) and the new owner put it in his watch where he then proceeded to sell on ebay the original dopey owner who sold the dial originally did not take off ebay that's what I'm thinking Lol..........
I was from Kent too originally and still have a flat in the bit of London that abuts Kent (SE18). Would you be anywhere nearby? Like Welling for example?
So come on, tell us why it is correct?
I'm certainly no expert and only have one dial for comparison, but the print looks much thicker, the 6s look 'closed' and there doesn't appear to have serifs in all the right places.
I'm certainly not wishing to offend, just need to know
Last edited by ed335d; 20th April 2016 at 18:05.
So Ray, how did the sale go? Any comebacks yet or did you get away with it?
And so was this one...
What are you talking about get away with ?
Get away with what ? what are you accusing me of here ?
The fact that the dial was listed for sale 10 days after the watch blows that theory out of the water. Something weird going on for sure.
I'll tell you Ray.
The seller of the dial (p.a.c.s) has a previous eBay ID of rn1
(edit - my bad, not the same watch).
Your user name is ray1
Happy to stand corrected, but when something smells fishy....
Last edited by ed335d; 21st April 2016 at 11:00.
Show me !!!! I don't own that watch
That's not my watch in the Ebay listing you got it all wrong what you trying to say here ?
Are you RN?
Last edited by ed335d; 21st April 2016 at 11:00.
Whats the problem
So you're Ray the jeweller from one of the bits of Kent that isn't Welling...
Hi Ray, I do not profess to be an expert, however I am the owner of a 5513 meters first Sub and have been for about 5 years.
Before buying the watch I did spend many hours doing my homework precisely to prevent failing victim to this sort thing.
My personal watch.
1967, complete with Rolex papers, original fat font insert and twin lock crown.
Last edited by Andyg; 20th April 2016 at 17:03.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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