Cleaning a movement

[ed335d]

After a bit of advice chaps

I've got a couple of 536.121 Quartz movements in vintage Heuer divers.

They've suffered from 'sticky' mechanisms where the second hand sometimes stops/starts (and you can see it wanting to go when it's stopped).

I've managed to strip these down and get them going again, but one has started exhibiting the same symptoms.

Dissassembly has started again, but I've realised that there is quite a few areas which are greasy/sticky, so I'd like to get the movement properly cleaned - however I don't really want to invest in a huge amount of equipment to do it.

Any tips on how to do this?

Would also appreciate some advice on oiling (type & locations) after cleaning.

[lewie]

Cheap ul;transonic cleaner- about £20 from Aldi

[ed335d]

Cheap ul;transonic cleaner- about £20 from Aldi

Got one!

I was assuming that there my be special de-greasers I might need.

[walkerwek1958]

Realistically, this needs fully stripping down, cleaning in watch cleaning solvents, and building up carefully. I use L & R extra fine and L & R no. 3 rinse, both of which are around £35/US gallon. I use small jars of solvent placed in the ultrasonic bath and I always give the parts 2 rinses. My parts drier is a small lamp with a 60 watt tungsten bulb, that gives enough heat to flash organic solvents off the parts easily. It's a bit makeshift but it has served me well and I can`t justify buying a full-blown parts cleaning machine.

Quartz watches aren`t the easiest to work on because the train wheel are v. small. I use Mobeus 9000 to lubricate the train wheel pivots; this is lower viscosity than 9010 and supposedly compatible with plastic parts (which are sometimes encountered in a quartz movement). A light viscosity oil is essential because there isn`t much energy going through the wheel and drag has to be minimised. That's why dried up lubricant (or dirt entering when batteries are swapped) causes them to stop.

Handling the magnetic stator can be fun, and again it has to be cleaned carefully. There's a risk of fine metallic particles being attracted to it so I always clean it in fresh solvent, inspect v. carefully and clean again with Rodico. Being magnetic it'll attract any metal bits.

Frankly, unless you've got experience with stripping/rebuilding movements I wouldn`t try practicing on a quartz. I fell into this trap several years back and I struggled. Another factor to consider is the delicate nature of the circuitry, the parts have to be handled v. carefully to avoid damage and the coil is the part that's most easy to write off.

Good luck

Paul

[ed335d]

Realistically, this needs fully stripping down, cleaning in watch cleaning solvents, and building up carefully. I use L & R extra fine and L & R no. 3 rinse, both of which are around £35/US gallon. I use small jars of solvent placed in the ultrasonic bath and I always give the parts 2 rinses. My parts drier is a small lamp with a 60 watt tungsten bulb, that gives enough heat to flash organic solvents off the parts easily. It's a bit makeshift but it has served me well and I can`t justify buying a full-blown parts cleaning machine.

Quartz watches aren`t the easiest to work on because the train wheel are v. small. I use Mobeus 9000 to lubricate the train wheel pivots; this is lower viscosity than 9010 and supposedly compatible with plastic parts (which are sometimes encountered in a quartz movement). A light viscosity oil is essential because there isn`t much energy going through the wheel and drag has to be minimised. That's why dried up lubricant (or dirt entering when batteries are swapped) causes them to stop.

Handling the magnetic stator can be fun, and again it has to be cleaned carefully. There's a risk of fine metallic particles being attracted to it so I always clean it in fresh solvent, inspect v. carefully and clean again with Rodico. Being magnetic it'll attract any metal bits.

Frankly, unless you've got experience with stripping/rebuilding movements I wouldn`t try practicing on a quartz. I fell into this trap several years back and I struggled. Another factor to consider is the delicate nature of the circuitry, the parts have to be handled v. carefully to avoid damage and the coil is the part that's most easy to write off.

Good luck

Paul

Thanks Paul

I'm reasonably comfortable with these movements - managed to get them going a couple of times, but this particular one seems pretty dirty and I'd like to do a more thorough job.

Good tips on the solvents and the oil - I just need to find somewhere that you don't need to buy industrial sized quantities!

Ed

[Bry1975]

Hi ED,

Email the manufacturer and ASK them for SAMPLES, worth a try...

[andy tims]

Ed - you already know that WD40 is the answer

[ed335d]

Hi ED,

Email the manufacturer and ASK them for SAMPLES, worth a try...

Good idea!

A brave man

In what way?

Ed - you already know that WD40 is the answer

Excellent advice Andy! Would that just be for the degreasing? I assume a spot of 3-in-1 when it's reassembled?

[robt]

Any thoughts on the use of IPA (isopropanol) for cleaning movement parts? I use it a lot for cleaning electronics and it has the general advantage of evaporating without leaving any residue (or at least, not enough of a residue to be a concern for electronics). I've seen it recommended for mechanical movements as well, but have to assume there is some reason to use the dedicated watch solvents. Maybe it doesn't play so well with the lubricants?

IPA is pretty cheap and you can buy it at any chemist - with the caveat that they will most likely need to order it in and they'll ask what you want it for, much like if you try to buy ammonia.

[ed335d]

Any thoughts on the use of IPA (isopropanol) for cleaning movement parts? I use it a lot for cleaning electronics and it has the general advantage of evaporating without leaving any residue (or at least, not enough of a residue to be a concern for electronics). I've seen it recommended for mechanical movements as well, but have to assume there is some reason to use the dedicated watch solvents. Maybe it doesn't play so well with the lubricants?

IPA is pretty cheap and you can buy it at any chemist - with the caveat that they will most likely need to order it in and they'll ask what you want it for, much like if you try to buy ammonia.

Certainly an avenue worth exploring; thanks

[walkerwek1958]

Certainly an avenue worth exploring; thanks

Isopropyl alcohol is too toxic to consider using in my view unless it's being used in a well- vented area; it really isn't good for you at all. I doubt whether it would be effective at removing oil/ grease, a hydrocarbon solvent is better.

Use the right stuff, it works and it isn't too toxic.

Paul

[ed335d]

Isopropyl alcohol is too toxic to consider using in my view unless it's being used in a well- vented area; it really isn't good for you at all. I doubt whether it would be effective at removing oil/ grease, a hydrocarbon solvent is better.

Use the right stuff, it works and it isn't too toxic.

Paul

Cheers Paul

[ed335d]

Thanks for the advice chaps, I ended up buying some Horosolv degreaser and it did the job really well. It took the muck off really quickly (I bathed the parts in small batches for no more than a minute).

A couple of pics before:







Ready for assembly



And all done



It's ticking away nicely now

[magirus]

Good work there. That's a very good looking watch.

[ed335d]

Good work there. That's a very good looking watch.

Thanks you, Sir

It's been a labour of love this one, however it's unlikely I'll wear it at it's just a bit too small

[wookie]

Realistically, this needs fully stripping down, cleaning in watch cleaning solvents, and building up carefully. I use L & R extra fine and L & R no. 3 rinse, both of which are around £35/US gallon. I use small jars of solvent placed in the ultrasonic bath and I always give the parts 2 rinses. My parts drier is a small lamp with a 60 watt tungsten bulb, that gives enough heat to flash organic solvents off the parts easily. It's a bit makeshift but it has served me well and I can`t justify buying a full-blown parts cleaning machine.

Quartz watches aren`t the easiest to work on because the train wheel are v. small. I use Mobeus 9000 to lubricate the train wheel pivots; this is lower viscosity than 9010 and supposedly compatible with plastic parts (which are sometimes encountered in a quartz movement). A light viscosity oil is essential because there isn`t much energy going through the wheel and drag has to be minimised. That's why dried up lubricant (or dirt entering when batteries are swapped) causes them to stop.

Handling the magnetic stator can be fun, and again it has to be cleaned carefully. There's a risk of fine metallic particles being attracted to it so I always clean it in fresh solvent, inspect v. carefully and clean again with Rodico. Being magnetic it'll attract any metal bits.

Frankly, unless you've got experience with stripping/rebuilding movements I wouldn`t try practicing on a quartz. I fell into this trap several years back and I struggled. Another factor to consider is the delicate nature of the circuitry, the parts have to be handled v. carefully to avoid damage and the coil is the part that's most easy to write off.

Good luck

Paul

Hi
On the subject of watch cleaning solvents more generally the very expensive "One dip" by Bergeon which works rather well is shown by its safety sheet to be nothing more than Tetrachlorethylene or Dry cleaning fluid to you and me. Bergeon one dip costs about £20 for 50ml which works out at £400 per litre, You can buy a litre of Tetrachloroethylene on the bay for about £25 but I think I read somewhere that the sale of it is soon to be outlawed so if you clean a lot of balaces it may be worth grabbing a litre before its pulled from sale.
wookie

[walkerwek1958]

There is a safety question mark over most chlorinated solvents and personally I wouldn`t use tetrachloroethylene on an open bench. Occasional use for degreasing a hairspring is OK provided the area is well ventilated. Unfortunately good ventilation and watch benches aren't an ideal combination unless you've got filtered air; ventilation brings in more dust and that's not helpful. Working by an open window is also a recipe for disaster.

Why does anyone need to use chlorinated solvents to clean watches? I don`t, they aren`t necessary as everyday cleaners. The normal clean and rinse solvents are adequate, I only use chlorinated degreaser on parts that have become severely contaminated from degrading rubber gaskets.

How about compatability of chlorinated solvents with the plastic parts found in some quartz watches? Anyone thought about that?

Take my advice, forget tetrachloroethylene, use L & R Extrafine and number 3 rinse. If used in an ulktrasonic bath I find these solvents will clean anything apart from the gunge encountered from degraded gaskets.

Paul

[wookie]

There is a safety question mark over most chlorinated solvents and personally I wouldn`t use tetrachloroethylene on an open bench. Occasional use for degreasing a hairspring is OK provided the area is well ventilated. Unfortunately good ventilation and watch benches aren't an ideal combination unless you've got filtered air; ventilation brings in more dust and that's not helpful. Working by an open window is also a recipe for disaster.

Why does anyone need to use chlorinated solvents to clean watches? I don`t, they aren`t necessary as everyday cleaners. The normal clean and rinse solvents are adequate, I only use chlorinated degreaser on parts that have become severely contaminated from degrading rubber gaskets.

How about compatability of chlorinated solvents with the plastic parts found in some quartz watches? Anyone thought about that?

Take my advice, forget tetrachloroethylene, use L & R Extrafine and number 3 rinse. If used in an ulktrasonic bath I find these solvents will clean anything apart from the gunge encountered from degraded gaskets.

Paul

Hi
I'm no sure I see it quite as dangerous as that if used from a small jar on the bench, I'd imagine i'd breath in a 100 times more picking up my suit from the dry cleaners. I only use for hairsprings and much prefer not having to rinse them.
Wookie

[walkerwek1958]

Agreed, using these solvents occasionally is very low risk. As far as I know, chlorinated hydrocarbons are cumulative liver toxins.

A bit late for me to be worrying about these things; I worked in the chemical industry for 35 years and our lab handling procedures got far stricter as the years passed. I cringe when I think back to 1974 when I started!

Paul

[wookie]

Agreed, using these solvents occasionally is very low risk. As far as I know, chlorinated hydrocarbons are cumulative liver toxins.

A bit late for me to be worrying about these things; I worked in the chemical industry for 35 years and our lab handling procedures got far stricter as the years passed. I cringe when I think back to 1974 when I started!

Paul

I think Horse,door,bolted are applicable in your case Paul, Probably the same for me being a welder, I've had more noxious substances up my hooter than Keith Richards
wookie