Reply With QuoteYou should. It is FACT.Originally Posted by Raffe
Any updates for us Raffe?
You should. It is FACT.
Well, it sounds to me like good, hard negotiating on Raffe's behalf. Always be prepared to walk away...
Well done, Raffe.
Is it also the LAW!
A Zeitwerk! Would get one if I weren't strapped on cash (pun intended)
Very mature.
Hi, #1 fan, how are you today? Well I hope
Have you actually read what I wrote?
Oh and managed to take it in?
If so counter my comment, or is FACT the only retort you are capable of?
Yes I agree it is well done, congratulations
But as a few have said, if he'd thought through his end game before prematurely agreeing the deal, then trying to change the outcome once the deal had been agreed all this could have been easily avoided without the need to resort to ultimatums
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Gloria+Estefan+Go+Away
I've been in business for over 20 years, 10s of 1,000s of happy customers and have a great reputation.
Buying or selling when I strike a deal, that's the deal, no post negotiations. My suppliers / customers know this, respect it and appreciate it. Why? Simple either side knows where they stand.
Didn't think that "a deal is a deal" would have been such a difficult concept to master
Yes, I am my child ;)
Then again I was responding to the "next time I won't ask but expect" comment, which is either the behaviour of a spoilt brat, or someone who's insane
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
FACT? :)
The outcome of taking any alternative course of action is, of course, speculation. I'll stick to my opinion: Raffe employed good negotiating tactics.
You're so creepy and weird. What business did you run?
A charm school?
For 20 years? It would last 20 seconds.
FACT.
Going back to the initial issue, unless this has been mentioned already, you would think or maybe expect the equivalent of a case back sticker to be applied to the under side of the strap, there must be materials to create an effective barrier without causing discomfort, it may be tried on many times before eventually being purchased, new owner would simply remove the protective film.
Last edited by geran; 11th February 2016 at 20:29.
I was offered a similar discount on the last Patek I looked at.
Simply the only one anyone needs where you're concerned.
That's interesting to know. I've only ever bought the sports models and there didn't seem much room for negotiation. What were you looking at?
What a peasant thing to ask op.
Op- "One would like a new strap and a freshly cooked pheasant breast pizza with cuckoo spit froth.... hold the rocket, and get the ruddy Cristal on the go man!"
Salesman- Cu later m8
#newmoney
5396
#nomoney
#exgreasemonkeynowworkingoffshorenewmoney.#nomoney
How does it feel son?
Well I can't argue with that hashtag. Feels like hard work TBH.
Thanks. I suppose discounts vary by model. You wouldn't get a 35% discount on all Lange's either. No chance on an 1815 Chronograph for example.
Surprised at that - I wouldn't have though you'd get 35% off offered on the other annual calendar designs.
Closing down / lost franchise AD? Or something else?
35% off a 5396?? haha no way
No its a long established AD but It was in Bermuda.
Discounts on Patek as with Lange vary by model. The 5396 is not as desirable as other Patek models and is readily available. A similar analogy is true of the Zeitwerk it is relatively easy to get and discounts are freely available. Discounts also vary by country/region. I used to go to Bermuda a lot and think I know the Patek AD in question.
Bought my Lange 1 at 40% off.. Well that was in 2006 for a 2002 NOS.
It's the one on Front Street towards the end of the parade of shops at the cruise ship terminal end rather than the Goslings shop and ferry stop end.
Yes it is the one I was thinking of - in fact I think it was where I was offered a good discount on a Patek Annual Calendar in Pt model 5056.
Was the list price similar the the Uk price?
Ahh, the first one to ask that question. The answer is "No, not anywhere close".
Next question: Did the AD offer a discount because it was a display model? Answer: No, in fact he assumed that I hadn't done my homework and started the negotiation with an inflated list price.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I was asking Josh about the Patek he was offered 35% off list in Bermuda
:-)
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
So what's the deal Raffe? Is it happening?
Curious as to what deal may have been struck to the satisfaction of both parties!
How you negotiate should also depend on what future relationship you want with the other party.
If you want good after sales service and good deals on future transactions then don't screw them into the ground.
I want my suppliers to be healthy, profitable companies that will be around to serve me into the future. If I squeeze them too hard they won't be around for long ...
Demand a good deal but don't push a reasonable seller beyond their limits.
I take your point but shouldn't a dealer always give this kind of service right from the word go? A bit of leather on a £35k purchase isn't screwing them totally into the ground, perhaps a 1/4 of a turn or something.
What if he goes back next time after he's paid top wack and they treat him no different to someone else who's never been in before?
As I said previously, define your terms then strike the deal.
Don't strike a deal then change the terms asking for more, even if it is just a little.
It was a couple years ago now but from memory PP prices were roughly comparable given the vagaries of currency fluctuations.
That's a great point, thanks.
As you explained, this sounds exactly like how I deal with contractors and suppliers at work and for exactly the reasons you mention. Usually the people we use are the best in the world and their prices are fixed. Sometimes in the past my bosses have waded in and try to bring the deadlines forward or expect too much, I try and mediate so we don't end up looking like unreasonable idiots or get put on the back burner.
If it's my own money buying a luxuary item I would reserve the right to pull out or have some get out clauses up my sleeve if I didn't like the manner of the salesman or I suddenly had reservations about part of the item.
It's called a 'nibble':
"The nibble is one of the easiest ways for buyers to get an unexpected concession from a seller. Here’s how it works:
After the initial deal has been agreed to, and before the contract is signed, the buyer will say something like, “You’ll include delivery on that, right?” or “Technical support is part of this package, right?”
This nibble is an attempt to gain something of value without paying for it. And the reason it is effective is because the sales people feels that if he does not make that concession, he will lose the sale. Plus, the concession often seems trivial in comparison to the overall deal."
Personally, I don't nibble, and it irritates me to be nibbled. The key to principled negotiation (as explained in 'Getting To Yes', for example) is that each side should get something for something. Asking for something for nothing isn't on.
On the other hand, you could say there's no harm in asking; if you give away something for nothing, that's your fault. The better negotiator cuts the better deal. But the really good negotiator will make deals over and over again with the same people, because they trust and respect him.
I had no idea that it had a name - every day's a school day! Given the OP's indication that he would do it again, I rather now suspect that it was an intentional negotiation tactic rather than an expectation.
Is there a variation in perspective here? Some look at the untouched strap as a freebie, others regard it as a basic requirement for a 35k watch.
Given my own personal circumstances, I find it difficult to imagine every last detail of buying a 35k watch, but I think I would be dismayed, if I found myself shopping at that level, to be having to specify such a thing.
I suppose this is one reason why 35k watches are initially priced at 45k and then "reduced" to the level at which they actually sell: it puts forward the suggestion that the retailer is doing the customer some kind of favour. Given that the customer has 35k to spend and zero need for the product, they're the only person doing anyone a favour.
Update:
As mentioned a few days ago, I found an arrangement with the AD. Unfortunately they didn't have any Lange straps in stock, but the watch is now at home with me and I will order a new strap tomorrow. Depending on delivery time, I might mount a spare strap from my Datograph, even though I am not convinced that black leather is a very good fit for the red-gold Zeitwerk.
Pictures as soon as I find the time (don't expect too much, my skills are limited).
Very well said... unfortunately or fortunately for some the person with money usually calls the shots... you have 2 options either to comply if you want the business or not... I find in my line of work that the more money a customer have the more they want to negotiate the project cost even though he/dhe is getting charged exactly the same same arrangements ad everyone else. not only that they tend to be the most trickiest to deal with during the project... luckily for me if I dont need this kind of customer I can turn them away.
Congratulations Raffe! I'm glad you got the watch at the end you wanted. If I was in your position I would have probably gone to get it somewhere else just on a principle alone.
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