Just coming back from the Lange AD to pick up my birthday present to myself, the Lange Zeitwerk.
As the watch was coming from their window display, I asked them to put it on a new strap. How do I know how many people have tried this on before me? The sales staff had to call the manager, who refused. I explained why I wanted a new strap and that I wasn't after a second strap, they could keep the current one and use it for display purposes. I even offered to take the watch without the strap and they would send me a new one by post, but he didn't want to do it.
In the end I walked out, as much because of the used strap as because of the manager's attitude.
Needless to say I am very disappointed.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Not sure. Part of me sees your point, the other part thinks it's like asking for a new set of tyres on a car which has only done 'delivery mileage'? - I can't imagine there was any dirt on the strap, and if it comes on a deployant is there any 'damage' to the strap at all?
For £35k the least I would expect is a new strap!...I can't believe they lost a customer over what would be such a small outlay for them...
I'd be sending a stern email to their head office...Even if its just to complain about the managers attitude...
It wasn't on a deployant, and I don't think the comparison is valid: I don't rub my car tyres against my wrist...
By the way, a new strap is going to cost me £500, while it will be a fraction of it for them.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
If I was paying that for a new watch id want it factory fresh, and if they refuse, I wouldn't buy it.
If you bought this, wore it for a day or two and took it back would they not attempt to buy it back as 'used'?
cant have it both ways
Bearing in mind the probable profit margin on that item, the manager is a fool - even if he thought you had no good reason he should have agreed in order to make the sale.
Was the watch discounted because it was a window display one? If so then it might be considered fair enough, but if it was being sold as a brand new watch then I would indeed expect a new strap to go with it...
A watch strap is arguably at least as intimate an item as a shirt- it's worn next to the skin, can pick up skin cells, perspiration etc and can't be laundered in the way a shirt can. And an ex-display watch may have been handled by countless strangers. Personally I probably wouldn't be as squeamish over a "new" ex-display watch (although if I buy a watch on a strap with anything more than very light weat the strap goes straight in the bin), but I don't think it is unreasonable not to want to wear something that has been "worn" by others.
The Manager must be insane, how much margin must there be in the watch like that and how many of those do they sell a year, he should have done whatever you wanted, and quickly.
The manager seems to have made a bad decision here, given the profit he stood to make.
I'm puzzled as to what he was thinking...
Are there clear signs of the strap having been tried on or is it more a case of just the thought of wishful dreamers having handled it, running through your head?
That said, it’s not like ALS play the PP/Rolex game of managed supply – you could opt to buy this from any other AD, especially if ALS, like PP, send out their product in sealed boxes, thereby avoiding the issue altogether.
If you feel you aren’t being treated properly given the expenditure, then give someone more understanding and amenable the profit instead.
Edit:
Having just done a quick check on C24, a new/unworn one is listed as £45K and change from another German seller, which suggests you’ve managed to save almost £20K on the retail price of €70,100!
On that basis…what are you complaining about a few hundred quid’s worth of strap for?
If you’re concerned somewhat slightly about others’ dead skin cells – you can, if the AD hasn’t already, sanitise the strap.
Last edited by PJ S; 8th February 2016 at 18:18.
Was he willing to order you a freshly sealed watch? Argos et al are only too happy to do that.
Why not bypass the dim witted manager and get one direct from the factory..
http://professionalwatches.com/2011/...ture-tour.html
Last edited by TimeOut; 8th February 2016 at 18:10.
For anything approaching that kind of brass (and considerable sums below too) I would want a new strap.
If a strap was to be included with a brand new watch purchase, regardless of price, I would expect it to be new. Having what is in essence a second hand strap on a watch isn't a brand new purchase, no matter which way you cut it.
I would have expected a new strap and I can't believe the manager didn't give you one. Very poor show.
I thought the Zeitwerk was around the 50k mark.
As said, if the watch was already discounted then I would accept it with the current strap. However at retail, coming from a shop window, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for such a thing. I know when I've dealt with Omega in the past they would have obliged on a much cheaper watch than what you're purchasing.
I can't believe some forum members here are in agreement with the AD. Discount or not the request is more than reasonable. To refuse is just insane from a business point of view, especially given that as the OP suggested they could have reuse it on another model.
Very poor show to say the least, I'm very surprised...
Last edited by Deckard81; 8th February 2016 at 18:40.
I've walked out of stores and never returned for lesser cases of poor service. Unbelievable desicion by the manager. Approximately 1,5% of the value of the deal?
But most likely not the margin.Originally Posted by Possu
Hope you still get the watch, Raffe, it's a beaut!
RE the OP it wouldn't bother me that it may have been tried on by others unless it showed signs of it.
... And out of curiosity what is THE list price of the watch?
For £35k I'd be asking the AD for an all expenses paid factory tour and to collect a brand new watch while you're there.
For £35k I'd expect the manager to perform a lap dance, clean my car and serve me caviar and champagne if I asked. Actually, I shouldn't have to ask, all that should be assumed.
Please tell me that when you do get your new watch you'll pop back to the AD, see the manager and show him what's on your wrist?
Hmm? Whilst I agree in principle that a purchase of that value may deserve a new strap purely on that basis (even a Panerai AD will chuck in an extra new strap, although these watches are rarely discounted), I really struggle to understand the issue of rejecting a strap because it may have been tried on by others?
Had the strap been damaged in some way, perhaps discoloured by long exposure by display lights, or unreasonably preformed by long periods on a display stand I can understand. However, for example, when you buy a new or used, expensive or otherwise, car, how many hands have been on the steering wheel and gear lever, fingers on controls, etc, leaving who knows what detritus behind? Do you want all those items replaced?
Same when you perhaps buy a jacket where the collar and cuffs have brushed against the skin of whoever has tried it on before you? Do you always expect to be given goods that are clinically sanitized?
Otherwise, what is and isn't 'reasonably acceptable'?
Edit: since posting this and gleaning a better understanding of the purchase details, I've changed my mind and no longer think the AD is as unreasonable as is being made out by some. I think the OP negotiated a pretty amazing deal and he's the one who's lost out here!
Last edited by pinpull; 8th February 2016 at 23:02.
Whilst everything is relative my eyes are still rolling at a) the ability to treat oneself to a £35k watch and b) losing a sale for the price differential of a display v new watch.
I'd concur with those who support the OP's position if the watch wasn't sold as ex display or similar. I presume the are other dealers who will match the price but if it's a great deal then I'd definitely be contacting the Head Office and seeking a satisfactory resolution. I'm available to mediate for a flat 10% :)
Had the watch been on a bracelet, would you expect a new one?
If the AD can sell the watch as is, why would they bother spending any of their money on it?
As a nice gesture great, but not to be expected.
In this case the manager does sound like a bit of a tool, but then again we only have one side of the whole story
100%. The manager must be a fool, and I can't see a bright future for him in retail. It's not anywhere near an unreasonable request. You were just unlucky and dealt with a moron.
Call any other AD and I'd be amazed if they didn't agree to your request in a heartbeat.
Wow, 35K and no new strap - I do not think this is unreasonsable
I wonder if the OP had been offered a new strap with 50% discount if that would have saved the deal? It just seems that an awful lot of effort must have gone into getting to the stage where you are about to get the credit card out......and bang, the deal goes out the window. I would have expected a little show of goodwill from the Manager, unless he/she felt they had already taken a hiding on the price.
I personally think you were well within your rights to ask for a new one.
It was to all intents and purposes a display model after all.
My Patek AD does put a new strap on models which have been on display. There is wear to leather straps when trying on, also as someone has said above there is usually some discolouration to the leather due to display lighting. They also usually wrap up the actual watch head in some sticky plastic to avoid scratching the case.
I'm not sure on this, I wouldn't ask for a new steering wheel on a car that had been test driven, so why a new strap, just because someone might have tried it on
First wow: £35k watch as birthday present to self.
Second wow: Can't believe the manager's attitude. If you can afford to buy one, there is the potential for more sales. Also, introducing your friends. Manager is very short-sighted.
For that price I'd not only want the watch with a new strap but also the shop attached to the watch
No matter how much the watch costs I always haggle for a strap, I understand both sides of this, high end = no haggling customers just walk in a buy it, sod em and go and buy one from elsewhere that's what I do, but Often they reconsider as I open the door.
At that price level, a brand new watch from an AD should have a genuinely brand new strap, even if the purchase is discounted, and even if (especially if) it is an ex-display model.
Walk away and find a more customer-focussed AD.
For £35k i would expect a brand new watch with every sticker on plus loads of freebies such as extra straps etc... when the RRPs are in 50k+ no one pays or expects full retail on them anyway.... friend of mine bought RM from AD and got almost 40% off with loads of other stuff trown in worth over £5k.
That manager is an arrogant douche and should never deserve your business. Thank God you walked away. Shame that it ruined your Birthday gift though.
Shop soiled/ex-display = negotiate discount or extras
Or had you already negotiated the discount? In that case you may just have pushed the deal too far.
Mind you, how dirty could someone about to buy a £35k watch possibly be?
I've always bought watches on bracelets so haven't had your problem, but I've come across business selling items for thousands of pounds that wouldn't sacrifice a penny of their profits for anything maybe your dealers one of them
What a short sighted idiot the manager is. He should have obligingly ordered a new strap for you, praised you for that purchase, and made you feel valued... to keep you as a prospective customer .... hoping that you tell your friends and have them as customers.
That error will be costly for his business.
Not unreasonable at all it's shame you didn't get the watch you wanted, I would hope the manager is regretting the missed sale too.
As stated above, I'd want an unworn watch for that money. Asking for a replacement strap, which they could of taken of the replacement they'd no doubt order, seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I am with PJS on this one. The List price of a Zeitwerk is 70,800 Euros in Pink Gold and 71,800 in White Gold (~£54K at todays exchange rate) so the op is not paying anywhere near list. It therefore seems reasonable to assume that he has obtained a large discount (around 35%.) for something. Sounds like the op then wanted a new strap as well after he had negotiated the price - should have included this in the negotiations from the start if it was a known issue.
You'd expect a discount on ex-demo vs ordering factory new though.
Anyway it's not a car, it's a very expensive luxury item with a very niche customer base. If the customer wants brand new with stickers and tags in place he should get it.
Settling for display model at this price point seems daft if you don't have to.
I am with PJS on this one. The List price of a Zeitwerk is 70,800 Euros in Pink Gold and 71,800 in White Gold (~£54K at todays exchange rate) so the op is not paying anywhere near list. It therefore seems reasonable to assume that he has obtained a large discount (around 35%.) for something. Sounds like the op then wanted a new strap as well after he had negotiated the price - should have included this in the negotiations from the start if it was a known issue. My guess is that you pushed the dealer too far ....
But that's the point, he was happy with the display model with the exception of wanting a new strap. It sounds like the price already reflected that this was an ex-demo vs. brand new and unopened.
I might have a different point of view if I was getting such a hefty discount. I could live with forking out 500 quid for a new strap if I were getting a 15k discount.
For a genuine comparison of attitudes, a recent purchase of circa £9k brought forth a custom strap with a retail value of £300+ with no hesitation whatsoever ☺
In my opinion the manager was very short sighted as if the cost is just £500 on a £35,000 watch then it would be worth that just for the repeat custom!
New strap and the sales girl letting me put head between them and going flubble, flubble, flubble.
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