I was making the point wether you are buying a second hand watch from a shop or eBay or bought it 2 weeks ago or yesterday trading standards and citizens advice and presumably the law see second hand watches as a grey area
That may be true, but if you buy anything (with some very limited exceptions), whether new or second-hand - including a watch - from a web site or mail order company, then you have a legal right to request a refund within 14 days of having received the item. You do not need to provide any reason or justification, just to return the item in the same condition that you received it, and at your expense.Originally Posted by Michael 38
It doesn't even need to be in the condition in which you received it. You are entitled to handle the goods to the same extent that you would reasonably expect to in a shop, so they can be removed from the packaging, tried on, batteries inserted, that sort of thing.
The seller is only entitled to make a deduction from the amount refunded if the goods have diminished in value due to excessive handling or use.
But it would seem no matter how many times this gets pointed out on this thread, nobody is paying any attention, so I'm out.
Ok, I'm nearly out.
It IS easy and straightforward. There is no grey area.
If the OP communicates clearly to the seller that he is cancelling the contract within 14 days of receiving the watch, then sends it back to the seller, within 14 days of getting it back, the seller MUST refund the full amount paid. The OP should document the condition of the watch prior to returning it, keep evidence of shipping, and keep a copy of the correspondence advising cancellation of the contract, again with proof of sending.
If the OP doesn't then get his money back within 14 days, he must take the seller to small claims court, where he will win, with 100% certainty. The seller would be a complete idiot to let it get to this point. Not that there aren't plenty of idiots about.
If the seller is so stupid that he chooses to ignore his obligation under the consumer contracts regulations, confronting him with arguments, expert or otherwise, about mis-selling (where we do get into a very grey area) will not help. If the OP chooses to try to obtain a refund on the basis that the goods were not as described under the consumer rights act, the seller is actually in a much stronger position if he chooses to try to keep hold of his money than if the OP simply exercises his right to cancel the contract under the CCRs, so how could doing so possibly help break that silence?
One more time:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...s-guidance.pdf
^^^ For what it's worth, this is my view.
With one addition:
Should it get as far as court, the credit card company should be listed as joint defendant on the summons with the vendor, using CCA Section 75 as a justification.
Last edited by markrlondon; 3rd February 2016 at 22:08.
£6k for this GMT ? Really ??
What possessed the op to pay so much ? There are far better examples out there for far less money .
The dial is totally wrong , printing is not correct and as we know the Lume plots are awful .
There's even been watches offered here for far less on SC.
Very odd .
Apologies if this has already been mentioned (I'm struggling to get past page 2 on my phone) but the second 'E' in Perpetual looks very wrong to me.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Yes the kerning is all wrong
I doubt this dealer cares. If he's getting away with charging £6k for that watch then he's not aiming the business at folk like us anyway.
They just listed an Explorer on their Facebook page. I've commented on the post, asking what their return policy is.
Be interesting to see the response.
I've used the Small Claims Court twice, and won both times. They try hard to be fair to complainants, who will usually have no legal backround. It's a pretty easy process, you just have to be exact in what you say, and present evidence. You appear highly likely to win this...not least because judges are not stupid, they know the score pretty well in cases like these.
The real issue is collecting any sum awarded. If the guy is determined not to pay, and doesn't mind the consequences, he will probably never give you the cash.
I feel real sympathy for you; it's a horrid situation. If a dealer is determined to be unscrupulous, there's not a lot to stop them...until they run out of customers. Which they do.
Indeed, enforcing the judgment is always the difficult bit. In this case, though, the credit card company is the easy target. They can be pursued for the judgment, assuming either they or the vendor does not pay up beforehand.
This for me hits the nail on the head. Winning is great to be sure but surely getting your money back is the real issue.
Hence Consumer Credit Act, Section 75 in this scenario (assuming it ever gets as far as court). One can sue the credit card company jointly with the vendor and collect any judgment from the credit card company.
Ok, that's more reassuring but what happens to the scumbag dealer?
Not the OP's problem after he gets his money back.
One presumes that the credit card company will be keen to get their money back, of course.
I know some people that will "enforce" a judgement for a price.
The credit card co. will pay out if the seller won't but the OP needs to pull his finger out and get on with the claim rather than taking more advice or comfort here.
TBH I thought at the outset that the dial had been reprinted or touched up (possibly due to water ingress?) as well as the very obvious reluming but it is very difficult to tell from pics.
Cheers,
Neil.
Agree 100% with this - it's all about speed and getting the ball rolling. I've had issues with buying used cameras before and always informally and formally (registered letter) contacted them to confirm that I want a full refund. Never had to get my CC involved but the formal letter was always enough to get things moving.
I think my post got a little lost amongst all the legal jargon here, but if you still harbour doubts about this business you need not.
They have deleted my comment from their Facebook page, so it's a 'No' from me.
Avoid like the plague.
This might also be of interest
https://twitter.com/UKSpecialistW/st...73483381391360
Last edited by demonloop; 4th February 2016 at 10:33.
Saw that, it's back down to 1 like now.
I'd say more like frantic quoting from google than legal jargon.
You've got to love their customer friendly returns policy
Returns Policy
We do not offer refunds unfortunately. Depending on the circumstances, we may offer a credit note for any watches returned.
This link directs you to the seller's ebay listings under ukspecialistwatches, if interested :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-Date...AAAOSw37tWCpIZ
H
From the eBay post there's this phone number if you don't already have it OP..
"We may be able to post the watch if you CALL us first to make special arrangements.
Please visit
Uk Specialist Watches
07874 223456"
Very odd they have got a lot of positive feedback from ebay and no negatives unless i am missing something ?
Just like to wish the OP all the best in sorting this issue out.
I had a similar incident with Watchcentre on Bond Street. Bought a 1675 and when I took it home and really analysed it under a loupe I couldn't get over the fact that it looked like a re-lumed dial. I was fortunate in that Watchcentre accepted a return next day with no real objection. But they stuck to their guns saying they were adamant it wasn't re-lumed. The lume plots were similar to the OPs but nowhere near as bad and to me it was quite obvious something had been done to the dial. Just goes to show there are few you can trust and probably best to stick with the chosen few.
I can't find it now, but I seem to remember Haywood giving ?Rony at Watchcentre the thumbs up in another thread recently. Apologies to Haywood if I got that wrong.
Yes, I did and would again commend Rony and the rest of the guys at Watchcentre. I don't know the poster's circumstances of course, but it is no surprise that Watchcentre refunded an unhappy client even if they disagreed with his opinion. They have a reputation to protect and in my experience should be considered "good guys."
H
I'm sure they're a great company when everything goes smoothly...
To judge a company properly you need to know how they act when things do not go so smoothly.
Well on ebay they cannot get away with their "no refund" crap as you'd just start a dispute with paypal.
They will.
There will be a Chargeback facility in place as part of the Business' borrowing facilities, and the Credit Card company simply charge the amount back to the seller's bank account.
A more correct version:
We do not offer refunds illegally.
Perhaps they have a "deal over the phone" selection of watches and a sell through eBay selection.
They have just said on twitter they are going to update the refund policy.
Update guys.....
I have been contacted by the seller and I hope to have the situation resolved by early next week.
I have been offered a full refund ( have this in writing) and he is looking at his terms and conditions.
I will keep you informed how it all works out.
Thanks again
Last edited by Euan Begbie; 4th February 2016 at 18:39.
Hope you get a positive outcome, though don't be lured into protracted discussions if you haven't exercised your 14 day rights.
Seems they do read this forum.
Hope you get the right result.
What he said
Your credit card firm will deal with this
I'd go as far to tell them it's a fake as it's not as described or sold
They'll be all over it
If you want a decent 1675/16750 take a look here:
http://www.hqmilton.com/vintage-rolex-watches/company
If you find anything you like I'm heading over to he US at the beginning of March and happy to pick something up for you, 11erv on here has had a few dealings with him and by all accounts is a top bloke.
Hopefully a satisfactory end to this unnessisarily sordid eposiode with UK Specialist Watches.
kudos to the Liverpudlian Twitter poster and also this forum who successfully brought them to rights.
That's what I was hoping to hear, get your all your brass back, and a sh!t situation gets resolved, all the best.
Just had a quick look at that and the prices seem keen to my (admittedly untrained) eye.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Add 20%.
I'd still send the letter regardless, could as others have pointed out a delaying tactic, trust no one :) /looks over shoulder whilst wearing tin foil hat.
Or not.....
Indeed.Or not.....
Agreed. I'm no expert, but that's a giveaway.
Looks like a narrow escape.
A suggestion for the OP. Rather than buy a 1675, why not consider a MATT dial 16750. Exactly the same as a 1675 (even the crystal and inserts are interchangeable), but with a better quickset movement.
These were only made between 79 and 83/84 so are quite rare.
The OP should be able to find a nice one for around £5k and have money left over for a new period insert if required.
Note. I am rather biased as I bought one in 1982, sold it in 1997 and bought another in 1999, which I still have. In fact I have a nipple dial 16753 as well
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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