Reply With QuoteWow, what a choice! I first thought 'go with the Lange' then saw the FP Journe! Very tough decision.
I've done a lot of forum searching and research and I know this type of thread has been done before but asking the question myself with some background into my narrowing of choice to help elicit some educated responses :)
I have the opportunity of buying a special watch to match an equally special occasion. I have always dreamed of owning a Patek, ever since I saw my first watch advertisement! Since getting more into watches and joining the forum etc I have had my eyes opened to other brands that appeal, specifically Lange and Journe; however the pull of owning a Patek is very strong.
So here's the options/ dilemma - I have a budget of £15-20k. I had always dreamed of a Nautilus but since buying my GO 70's I can't seem to get my head around losing money on that lovely piece to buy something very similar for 13kish more. So, keep the GO and buy an alternative or PX to get something at higher end of budget or just go for the 5711?
I would like something 'stealthy' but quality. I've ruled out AP's, Breguet or Rolex so that's a start. So I've started to think of alternatives...
Patek Nautilus 5712r
+'s = Patek, Nautilus, Rose Gold (nice) some complications, looks and feels great
-'s = a bit too flash? not very stealth?
Patek 5146 G
+'s = Patek, Gold, complications, size, discreet
-'s = if not worn often the benefit of an annual calendar is lost, unsure of dial/case combo should I go for another colour??
Lange 1815
+'s = Very discreet, build, size
-'s = Too discreet?, no date or functions, too formal?
Journe Chronometre Souverain
+'s = design appeal, movement, rarity
-'s = availability, value retention
So there you have it. A bit of a ramble through my thought process but some pictures to ease the pain! Any thoughts or suggestions greatly received.
Last edited by daveyw; 14th January 2016 at 17:21.
Wow, what a choice! I first thought 'go with the Lange' then saw the FP Journe! Very tough decision.
They're all beautiful with the exception of the Nautilus, which is pretty ugly.
Nautilus owners prefer the term classic 70's designOriginally Posted by bonzo697
If you can find one of these in your budget then I wouldn't hesitate, cheapest I have seen is c.26k pre owned but can't say that I have looked specifically so if you can find one £15-20k then buy it, it's a stunner and I'm pretty sure will wear as well smart as it will day to day
So here's the options/ dilemma - I have a budget of £15-20k. I had always dreamed of a Nautilus but since buying my GO 70's I can't seem to get my head around losing money on that lovely piece to buy something very similar for 13kish more. So, keep the GO and buy an alternative or PX to get something at higher end of budget or just go for the 5711?
I would like something 'stealthy' but quality. I've ruled out AP's, Breguet or Rolex so that's a start. So I've started to think of alternatives...
Patek Nautilus 5712r
+'s = Patek, Nautilus, Rose Gold (nice) some complications, looks and feels great
-'s = a bit too flash? not very stealth?
I'd rather one of these than the Nautilus but there aren't very many of them
IMHO Nautilus should be steel - the gold one makes no sense. Like a gold Submariner or Royal Oak, it's just a luxury oddity, doesn't stop it being desirable of course.
The Annual Calendars are my favourite complication, take a minute to set and are pleasure to wear. the 5146 is the most recent 'classic' looking Patek, gorgeous watch. If you want stealth, white gold is the way to go as well. My personal preference is for the 'r' in rose gold with champagne dial. You may get a cheap 5205 from Europe for the top end of your budget, maybe.
With FPJ, the feeling you get is completely different from the Patek. The PP is staid, traditional, beautifully made, an heirloom in your head and in actuality. To be honest, if that's what you want, nothing else will do and the feeling of ownership, when you finally get there, is extraordinary (for a watch and for normal people like us, obviously). But they make 80,000 watches per year and are best-sellers in WofS in the City. You probably won't see many about, but there are a lot of them about.
Journe, 700 watches per year is truly RARE and a fabulous piece of horology for the money. They are just bursting with character; the unique hands, solid gold movement, the proclamation 'he invented it, he made it' on the the dial all adds up to something very special. Their appearance divides opinion as well whereas generally PP has provided the template for a complicated dress watch so they look as they are expected to.
Of your selection above, I'd go for the 5146. Once you have the PP, then add an FPJ when you can. The other way around won't be what you want.
The Lange... wonderful, but IMHO it's a great watch to form part of a collection. If you only have one luxury watch, common wisdom says go with a PP.
Out of those? The FP Journe attracts me most.
If you're set on a Patek for that long however, then it's a pretty safe bet that you simply won't be happy until you've owned one.
Given your sort of cash, I'd be trying to find a deal on an Aquanaut Travel Time - 5164A which fits the stealthy bill nicely and is (imo) much prettier than the Nautilus:
Always try on 1st and see how it makes you feel.
I have a 5711 and the 5164 but not sure either feel £20k ish (list) on the wrist.Does any steel sports watch??
If its something to make you feel special how about a 5167R? Looks beautiful and because of the weight might make you feel as though you have something expensive on the wrist.
The FPJ is my favourite out of the four. It also feels like the left field choice but in a good way.
Personally, if I were spending that much and expected to get some wear out of the watch I would be looking for something in platinum rather than gold.
Try the 5146J with cream dial.
I had a similar dilemma although for me was 5146 vs 5205.
In the end went for the 5205 which looked abit more "unique" and also legibility was good.
http://s229.photobucket.com/user/FL_...5205G.jpg.html
Ah, so the ads do work!😄
I would go with 5712r.
With this kind of budget don't take second best, you have dreamt of a patek and you have dreamt of a Nautilus. Get one!
Failing that the FP Journe is just lovely.
Ater looking at this I've changed my mind!
I say go for the PP Nautilus, either steel or gold is fine. It will be discrete enough, allow you to experience PP quality, and can accommodate both formal and casual situations.
The 5296 is my favourite, I think its stunning. I originally bought one in around 2006 when they first came out, but like an idiot sold it a couple of years later. I bought this one not so long ago as I yearned after it every time I saw a Patek of any kind.
I think that the Journe is a really lovely thing and very different and very rare but I know from personal experience if you have your heart set on something for a long time that's what you have to go for otherwise you will never be truly happy. Good advice from DB9Yeti get the 5146 and then add the Journe when you can!
If I was choosing, I wouldn't buy the FP Journe. I always have one eye on selling a watch and I think that ultimately the Patek would be a lot easier to dispose of if you ever needed to get shut of it sometime in the future. Also I cannot deal with upside down numbers on a dial, they do my head in.
+1 for the Nautilus, I think you cant go wrong with that model, timeless classic elegance in a sporty case, love it!
I'm a huge fan of the 5146 G. Classic and gorgeous.
Let us know what you decide!
Nice choice of watches you have there. For me, it would be the Journe. It is stunning!! I presume it has the gold 5 day movement as well?
Why not a Calatrava?
"Patek? Which one?"
This one...
...the most beautiful one of all
If you go for AL&S, I'd go for the 1, feels like their "signature" model.
However, for the Patek route, I'd choose the "plain" 5711, it's very versatile. You also have the 5726 which is much more balanced than 5712.
Lovely and extraordinary finishing but a bit too plain visually and therefore, in my eyes made it more formal
Db9yeti's post resonated the most with the 'itch to scratch of Patek, but I doubt I'll ever be able to follow up this sort of purchase with another- even if it is as desirable as a Journe!
The 5146 in slate and white gold looked as if it would work better casually than the rose version. Any thoughts? I've been tempted by slate dial and gold, but the yellow gold looks old fashioned?
It seems crazy that a precious metal annual calendar can be had for such a small premium over the 5711, that's why I'm being led that way
I really like this one.
Here's my favourite:
Steel 5712 on bracelet?
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Out of your choices. I would narrow it down to two.
The 5146 and the FPJ
The 5146 was the 1st Patek that I had, though in Y/G and cream dial.
I also loved the slate dial on R/G combination.But on trying the two, I went for the Y/G. The AC complication is a great all round watch and can be used under all circumstances. :)
FPJ, make imo some cracking looking watches.
And for me the CS is one of them, I love the layout of the dial and the beauty of the R/G movement, as well as the rarity of the brand.
I envy your position :)
I guess that for me it would be the Patek, but only for the reason that it has the date! If my OCD for having a date on a watch, was not so compelling, than without doubt it would be the Journe :)
Mango chutney.
5146 but in yellow gold with cream dial. I looked at one today and it really is class.
The FPJ is the nicest of the three, but will the brand still exist in 20, 30, 50 years? If not, who will touch a solid gold movement, etc etc... Patek is a safe bet, though I'd want it on the bracelet.
The F.P. Journe is no longer available in a 38mm case, if that's relevant to you.
Would lean towards timeless Genta even if FPJ is close 2nd.
Any of these, if possible would be tried to obtain second hand so whilst waiting I'm procrastinating. Patek's easier to come by but don't want the easy option if it's the wrong one. Finding a Journe you want on the second hand market is proving very very hard though
From that list I would definitely choose the 5146.
5711, blue dial. DB9's post is spot on.
Also the PP is the most versatile of the 3. BTW IMHO a nautilus has to be steel.
Regardless of your final choice you'll still end up with a great watch.
Congrats in advance.
It's a very low key watch, anything in red or yellow gold can't possibly have the same effect.
I have a couple of white gold and couple of Pt watches, to anyone who is not fussed they look like regular stainless steel watches and I enjoy that - it does mean you can wear them anywhere and for just about anything. Blue or brown leather for more casual, black strap with a suit. My 5205 is on quick release springbars as well so no strap changing marks and a minute to change the look when you swap the deployant.
The 5205 in black is a push but not impossible in this range. Can I ask, did you add a deployant clasp later? Also (as your replies seem to stem from experience), how does the 5205 fare against the 5146 or 5712r. I can only have one unfortunately!
I also bought a 5205, collecting in January. AMAZING watch. I prefer it to the 5146, which in itself is a beautiful watch also, but just abit too "ordinary".
This wont be my last patek so i wanted something abit more unique.
I'd go for a 5712 in Steel on a bracelet as my top choice, although I suspect a 5712r with deployant would blow me away as well.
I can't think of a scenario so formal that the 5712 doesn't feel smart enough, and yet it's casual enough for any situation as well. The ultimate everyday wear, I'd say.
And when you take it off, you get to look at that amazing movement...
I'm very fortunate that the previous owner did! Never used it on the pin buckle.
I tried on all of the Nautilus range in steel, the 5980 was the clear winner for me and that's what I have. I didn't consider the Nautilus in gold, and judging by the amount of knocks mine picks up, that was for the best. The 5980 is pretty chunky however and a slimmer watch would likely get tagged less...
The quality of the 5205 is no better than the 5146, I liked them both equally and a 5205 popped up on SC so I bought it. Had a 5146 done that I would probably have gone with it! The calendar layout of the 5205 is just fantastic, second to none, all info available at a glance. BUT the 24hr counter I find a waste of a complication and in certain lights the hands are hard to see. PP is also very large on the dial...
The 5146 has the slightly more complex readout, BUT a lovely power reserve indicator and some lume on the hands which is appreciated. It also echoes the classic Pateks of the past, no bad thing. If you buy a PP, you probably want it to look like a PP.
In conclusion then; 5205 is very contemporary in appearance, has very modern sizing at 39mm and the two dial colours are made for the white gold, which is unplated 'grey' gold therefore can be polished. It also has an unusual appearnace, as most WG is Rhodium plated (Rolex notably excepted), PP's grey gold alloy is unique in appearance.
5146; classic Patek design and suits the gold-with-white-dial, strictly-dress look for me. However, the slate dial in a white gold case does add a contemporary feel so it might be the best compromise. The case is however Rhodium plated so won't take a polish more than once or twice... However Rhodium does increase the surface hardness, so it's swings and roundabouts!
- - - Updated - - -
Any occasion where you wear a suit?
This, for me, is the definitive Calatrava. And the Calatrava is the definitive Patek.
The 5196.
(I love the 5296 but it just feels a little sporty for a Patek.)
5712r is a lovely watch altho maybe hard to find good condition under £22K. Dial is more grey than advertised brown however. A blue 5712 is also a good idea for £18K.
Still looking. Tried this on today and if wasn't for the fact I can't afford it, would have bought it there and then!
In all seriousness though it's set my heart and mind on a white gold, cream dial 5146
Rose gold in pic below for size comparison
Funny that the rose gold 5146 wasn't my favourite colour, the White gold is; but it's the other way round for the 5205.
Budget creep is a dreadful affliction.
From that list 5146, my dream is 5370
Sounds random but I think age plays a part in this sort of watch choice/conundrum.
I'm in a similar market/budget at the moment (well purchase prob 3-6 months) and I keep come back to the 5712a at the moment.
I'm 34 and think that the nautilus range are that bit sportier dare I say it younger. My thinking is that as I get older I will probably want to wear the more classical watches and less of the sporty ones....
This could well seem v random but it's just my view, I have a hankering for a PP but the also love the chronometer Bleu by FPJ. Think the former nicks it though. Have to say a precious metal does also really attract me.
Lovely choice to make best of luck
I have the 5146g with cream dial and have been thinking of selling it to fund a 5170g black dial. The thing is every time I put the 5146 on my wrist I can't take it off again, I don't think photos do it justice. The case shape and size make it very wearable and I think works very well in both smart and casual attire, a good all rounder.
Also note that Patek invented the annual calendar so from a mechanical horological perspective an annual calendar from Patek means something. The construction of the Patek annual is also different to other ACs so it's an interesting movement.
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