Reply With QuoteThat is one fascinating read and it is correct - how many people have bought something just because that is the brand to have and be seen with: car, wine, watch, shoes, handbag, suit etc.Originally Posted by DB9yeti
I'm not sure anyone has ever mentioned the word Veblen on here, thanks for that.
Somewhere in the dustier parts of Europe, a kitten is being strangled in preparation for what we are about to receive...
That is one fascinating read and it is correct - how many people have bought something just because that is the brand to have and be seen with: car, wine, watch, shoes, handbag, suit etc.
That's brilliant :)Wish I could remember the name of the guy on Timezone who used to make these spoof ads about 15 years ago, but credit to him anyway -
I don't know. Have you?
I think the Patek ads are OK rather than great advertising. If you think an ad like this should contain a lot more factual information about Pateks it probably just isn't aimed at you - after all, you probably know most of that stuff already don't you? I think they are probably trying to give a someone with a reasonable amount of wealth and taste a flavour of the feeling of owning a watch like this even though they don't understand all of the technical stuff. They are competing with other luxury brands (cars, jewellery, holidays etc.) as much as other watches.
'Have a break, have a Kit Kat' is sort of the same thing. A description of what a nice chocolate biscuit it is wouldn't work quite the same for most people.
I'm really not a fan of the adverts, but probably just because I hate sentimental family clap-trap.
Yes probably, Haven't most people opted for a familiar brand name at some point rather than take a gamble on a cheaper, but lesser known name.
Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 24th November 2015 at 17:12.
I wouldn't...The only ads that have ever made me want to buy a watch were the old National Geographic Rolex ads; I'm currently wearing an Explorer now and that makes me as awesome as this guy, even though I am sitting at a desk eating a pear.
I'd probably wear my Arktis because I want a photo of it in the snow, like everyone else!
M
LOL!
Perfect!
I think that would be a great way of killing sales.
The product is simply a pile of mechanical parts that doesn't do anything an iPhone doesn't. Add the price tag and it would seem like a mentally questionable decision.
So the adverts move the goalposts and reframe the decision, by justifying the price in a way that has an emotional resonance.
Heh, good analogy!
"Buy this. It's got wafer and chocolate and is nice. And has a wrapper. It is not a Kat."
At least PP don't use celebs, sports or movie tie-ups quite as obviously - I think that is to be admired. A few twee 'heirloom' ads I think is nicely played.
Yes, I think they are alright, not bad at all.
Sometimes lots of detailed copy can have the same effect, just depends on the message and who you want to talk to.
True; though I'm no fan of the De Beers plagiarism and the possible whiff of Aryanism, at least it's better than what IWC's been doing. :P
These threads really need to join up if we are talking about DeBeers.
A Couple of Nosey Questions ???
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?t=354761
To me, the 'generations' ads suggest the value of quality; this is a watch so well designed and made it can be enjoyed and appreciated for (and by) generations. Slightly odd photography aside, I don't mind them at all. London ad-agency, Leagas Delaney, also produce a series of ads called the 'institutional campaign', which go into great detail about craftsmanship, heritage, innovation etc., which I like more... but not as much as I like those classic Rolex ads from the 60s and 70s.
Rolex was a big account for JWT when I worked there in the 80's/90's, guess it still is.
Sam Leith in The FT gets it:
“You never actually own a Patek Philippe,” runs the tagline. “You merely look after it for the next generation.” This long-serving piece of advertising copy for a luxury wristwatch is a slice of genius. But why does it work so well?
It is an example of a particular persuasive technique that — having struggled to find a suitably arcane Greco-Roman jargon term in the lexicon of classical rhetoric — I shall term “The Old Switcheroo”. On the face of it, splashing the price of a car on something that sits on your wrist and tells you whether it’s lunchtime yet is a perfectly absurd thing to do.
Yet in 16 words, Patek Philippe has taken an essentially egoistic act of conspicuous consumption — the purchase of a status-symbol — and recast it into something like an act of altruism. And, what’s more, an act of altruism that honours home, hearth, ancestors and generations yet unborn.
Buying one of these watches is not acquisitive; it is curatorial. The tag lines you up with antiquarians, rather than a crowd of vulgar high net worths flashing their bling.
It comes down to the words shaping a motivation (sharing something valuable with someone dear to you) rather than a product (an expensive watch). All persuaders, and advertisers especially, know that their challenge often lies not in making people want something but in giving them permission to want it. And here’s where The Old Switcheroo comes in. Motivation is inscrutable: and in that inscrutability is a space for the persuader’s art.
It gives you room to interpret your audience’s motivation back to them in a favourable light. To say a product is 10 per cent fat is to issue a warning; to say a product is 90 per cent fat-free is to salute an aspiration. You’re selling the customer a version of him- or herself.
I’ve spoken before in this space about ethos — the persona that the persuader presents to his or her audience: an audience trusts a speaker whose motives they feel are honestly declared and understood. A sort of reverse-ethos also applies: a persuader can seek to project a motivation on the audience. Wash your hair with this shampoo because you’re worth it; drink this cider because you’ve earned it.
Crude and often mocked versions of this abound in business and politics: You’re not sacking the staff — you’re streamlining the business. You’re not putting people on zero-hours contracts — you’re giving them the freedom to take charge of their own destinies. You’re not reducing oversight — you’re cutting red tape. You’re not punishing the feckless; you’re helping people out of the welfare trap.
But “reverse-ethos” in its purest, most effective form is when you transform, in the audience’s mind, one desire into another. Everyone likes to feel good about themselves — so if you can persuade people that what they want is actually something they want on behalf of others, you’ve got it made.
It matters how your audience feels about you. But it matters, perhaps, even more, how you make them feel about themselves. And Patek Philippe’s advertising slogan recognises that truth magnificently — which is why the slogan has lasted so long.
It’s almost, in fact, as if it’s being held in trust for future generations.
What like Aston Martin, you mean?
Sorry, but the Hitler Youth tribute act is less appealing than a Le Mans win for me!
M
Wait, what?
Take about profiling
I guess you mean 'talk', but I was quoting from an earlier post that quoted someone else...
I can entirely see what he meant though...
M
I am not in advertising but I think anyone who is will tell you its been an incredibly successful campaign
For me though it didn't work as I purchased a Patek the year my first son was born ...only to end up selling a year later when something else came along I wanted :-)
So this is the one for you!
M
For someone claiming to be sucked into talking about something he didn't care about, you seem to have spent quite some time trying to express your disapproval and mocking the ads 😄😄So this is the one for you!
M
But, it's ok. We are here to share our views even if divergent :-)
I know, I just couldn't resist...
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
It is ok.I know, I just couldn't resist...
M
If we didn't spar with people with differing views here, the forum would be a dull place.
Couldn't agree more!
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I don't think I've bought anything, certainly not a watch, because of an advert!!
An advert may make me sit up and take some interest but not just go "oooh got to get me one of them"
There are certain watch brands/types that based on current offerings, no matter how much disposable income I had, I would never, ever, contemplate buying.
The PP advert? Couldn't give a stuff either way, I'd flick the page over without a second glance (and that is no reflection on the merits of the watch itself)
Out of interest, have you ever used an advert to sell anything?
As an advertising copywriter, no.
Items on online auction, yes, but I stand by my comments.
My carefully scripted, wittily worded advert on auction site was most unlikely to have just been stumbled upon and the person thought "wow, got to have that". It would likely have been specifically serached for and then the myriad of potential reasons made it interesting to progress further (price, avaialability, need, location, etc.)
I must say, even if I had £1M to blow on watches I wouldn't go out of my way to look at Pateks.
Adverts that play to those with children does nothing for me, what with not having or intending to have children.
I can see why it pulls at the heart strings of soppy fathers.
Good life lessons are better to hand down than watches, mind you.
But you are not immune from design, PR, advertising, packaging design or branding. a lot of purchasing decisions will in some way have been influenced by them. People (I find often males who work in IT or maths fields) like to think 'advertising doesn't work on them' but they would have to consume no current media channels for that to be the case.I don't think I've bought anything, certainly not a watch, because of an advert!
Don't fundamentally disagree and certainly advertising has made me 'investigate some more' but, for me, most purchases of goods are pretty much a 'known product choice' before I buy be that baked beans (although only Heinz ever will do there, have I bought into advertising as a kid or is it what I know I like, hmmmmm), motorbikes and cars (usually a spec' driven choice to back up the hearts thinking) or watches. I know what brands I like/want, features I want or don't want and certainly know what I don't like, and thus don't want, in most cases.
Thoughtful answer, thanks.
Your auction buyer probably googled the name of the item you were selling, maybe with words like 'sale' or 'buy', then saw your ad near the top of the list of search results and clicked on it. The ad would have been at the top of the list because the auction site will be paying Google to skew their search algorithms that way. The buyer would have felt comfortable using your auction site in part because of being familiar with the brand even if they had never used it before. All of which is part of advertising and even people who do this for a living every day kind of accept that it's just human nature to respond to all of this, as part of the whole continuum of markets and our way of life.
Part of the reason Patek advertise so relentlessly in the way that they do (those same old ads in the same place in same old high end papers and magazines) is just to make them boringly familiar and acceptable, even to people who turn the page immediately.
We do all have free will as well, I don't think one precludes the other. :)
I think we're converging on 'vehement agreement' alfat33
Last edited by carbuilder; 26th November 2015 at 11:02. Reason: spell correct
Of course.
It's ludicrous to think that brand advertising doesn't work.
Otherwise why does a can of Coke cost so much more than own brand?
Why does a Rolex, similarly made to many other watches, cost as much as it does?
Why doe people aspire to pay more for an Audi than a Skoda?
If you want to sell a car, stick it on ebay. After all you only need one buyer.
But if you want to sell thousands of cars, you'd better think about advertising. And when you do, you'll be forced to make decisions about your product's/brand's positioning, culture, voice and proposition.
Can you? As you say you're not a father and don't intend to be one. In fact you're so far removed from their target market I can't see why you saw fit to comment - except to have a go at Patek and the people who buy them - for all the wrong reasons, not like WIS who only buy for the right reasons ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Liking a PP would hardly make you in the minority.
I don't have kids and never intend to have them. I find PP to be just too stodgy.
Just watching an episode of "Man in the High Castle" and this appeared
and this thread sprang to mind!
Sorry Patek ad lovers...
M
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...atek-Which-one
It does seem to work though!!!
Perception....
Then of course part of that comes from brand recognition due to marketing. Equally important is the social context you move in, your aspiration and how this matches the perception of the brand. One part may be rational such as quality experienced from previous purchase other does not have to be so. Usually a positive perception will increase your willingness to pay more than the rational value hence leading to a lucrative position for the company producing the goods/service
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