Watchfinder Bad Experience

[t72]

I have spent several weeks deciding whether to report my recent dealings with watchfinder. So here goes...
I noticed a Breitling Superocean steelfish on the site, box and papers £1850. I called the office and asked to speak to the normal guy I deal with Brett and discovered he had moved on and set up on his own. This should have set alarm bells ringing as in the past when I dealt with anyone other than Brett it went poorly!! Like the time I purchased a Longines 18ct Evidenza on leather with a solid 18ct gold buckle according to watchfinder and when it turned up yep was a GP pin buckle!!
Anyway I digress, I spoke with Kieran about the watch who told me it was still for sale. I always negotiate hard with Watchfinder and said if they wanted a deal I would bid £1650. I also asked the condition of the watch and was told that it had been in the workshop and inspected and there were no problems. I also asked if there were any marks on the watch and was told no. Kieran then stated that he would have to get the bid okayed and would call me back. This he did approx. 2 hours later and the deal agreed.
As I was away from home on business I could not pay for he watch until the next day which I did so 29th July. The watch was dispatched the same day and I collected it from the post office Thursday morning 8am. To my horror when I opened the box the watch was far from being in the condition described by Kieran and was poor to say the least. Someone had tried to rebrush the watch and made a hash of it. There were numerous dings in the case, the screws on the bracelet were chewed and the strap marked heavily. This a watch that watchfinder told me had been through their workshop, well all I can say is I would have hated to see it before!! I immediately called watch finder and told Kieran about the watch who informed me that he would have to talk to his manager. I told Kieran that the watch in its condition was worth considerably less than I had paid and would agree a price suitable to the condition or it would have to go back. It took nearly 3 hours for Kieran to call me back after about half a dozen calls to the watchfinder office. Apparently the Manager was at lunch, 3 hours!!
I had pre-empted the outcome and repackaged the watch and went to the post office. On the last call to Kieran he said they would not discount the watch any further and I could return the watch. I said I would return it and would expect the return postage to be paid as the watch was not as described.
The watch was posted Thursday by special delivery back to Watchfinder in Maidstone. Friday I received a text at 10.40am to say the watch had arrived and was with the returns department. I called watchfinder at 2pmish the same day as I had not heard anything else and was told my card was being refunded. I also asked about the postage and was told it was with the accounts department.
I then heard no more from watchfinder at all so Monday morning sent an email to the aftersales manager, and it was only then that the transaction was refunded 9.39am 3rd August. I have not heard anything on the postage at all and have not received any further correspondence.
From my experience it appears that watchfinder seem to be more like used car salesman and only intrested in telling you what you want to hear to get you to buy the watch. Even when I emailed Stuart the owner the response that came back was did not the pictures reflect the condition. Well those in the know who look at the watchfinder site will agree that the pictures are indicative of the watch but it would be difficult to see dings and scratches, hence why I asked the salesman the condition.
I would say deal with watchfinder with trepidation, get watch reports in writing from them and even ask for more photos to show the exact condition. All I got was very poor service and now £14 poorer due to misspelling and I bet I am not the only one!!

[Scepticalist]

When you asked the condition, you accepted his statement that it had been through the workshop. To me someone saying that obviously doesn't have the watch in front of them to give you a proper description. It also sounds as if this was an inexperienced salesman. Neither of which is necessarily your fault, but I would definitely have asked him to get the watch and describe it to you in detail. Online diamond dealers do this and we're talking similar money here in many cases.

You're out of pocket for the postage which isn't great service. You could probably chase it but for the time needed on the phone vs the reward only you can say if that's worth it.

Other than that I'd say you got a refund in reasonable time frame considering this is a large company and not a small dealer who tend to give more diligent service in my experience. It's a fair warning for people to take a little care in their dealings.

[walkerwek1958]

From the OP's description the watch doesn`t sound brilliant!

Unless the photos are very detailed, it's difficult to assess the condition of a watch. Ideally, ask specific questions about each aspect of the watch (ie 'are there any marks or dings on the case', 'has the watch been refinished', 'are there any scratches on the bezel', what's the condition of the dial?'.....). This puts the onus on the seller to give more detailed description and is far more useful than asking general questions; never accept an answer such as 'look at the photos', a good seller is prepared to be as helpful (and honest) as possible.

Clearly, the watch didn`t match expectations, but Watchfinder will argue (rightly or wrongly) that the condition is a matter of opinion. If you deal on a 'sale or return' basis I think you have to be prepared to accept the cost of return postage if you're not happy and frankly I don`t think this is unreasonable. I don`t blame the OP for sharing this but I think he has to be realistic and accept that he's got to pay the postage cost. No point in wasting time trying to chase this up IMO. Trying to haggle the price down on the basis of condition is never likely to work, the dealer will assume you're just trying to reduce the price. Indeed, if the watch was so bad I`m surprised the OP wanted to keep it at any price.

I know from my own experience how folks's expectation vary; a watch that's perfectly acceptable to one guy is totally unacceptable for another. Dealers know this and they'll often try to get away with selling stuff that doesn`t satisfy the more discerning customer; if the buyer isn`t satisfied and sends it back they'll sell it again to someone less fussy.

Paul

[christech81]

In these cases I normally sympathise with the poster but several things come out here. You've dealt with Watchfinder before and must be aware of their reputation, they are box shifters selling at prices comparable to other pre-owned dealers. The watches they get in will vary in quality depending on how the previous owner(s) have treated them so yes a few will be scuffed or well worn but by all accounts will try and resolve issues that you might have.

You negotiated a price for the watch (or to use your words, gave them a deal) and when it arrived it was not to your satisfaction so sent it back for a refund. The fact it took a while for the money to be refunded is poor but it is how a lot of companies operate. I do sympathise with you and understand your frustration, it's horrible when a purchase is made that goes sour, at least your money has now been refunded.

With regards to the postage costs, extract from the watchfinder web site terms and conditions

"Return postage, packaging and insurance will be your responsibility and you must follow our reasonable instructions. We recommend you use a tracked mail system and retain proof of postage. You must insure the Goods to their full value. You must ensure that you pack the Goods appropriately to prevent damage during transit."

Couldn't find anything that says postage would be refunded but I might have missed it, for online/distance transactions I normally assume that return postage would be at my cost but pleasantly surprised when it isn't.

[andrewcregan]

There is nothing worse than a bad experience with any company, and it must have been incredibly disappointing to receive something that wasn't to your expectation.
I have only used watchfinder once myself, and although my personal experience was excellent, I found that this paragraph on their website reassured me before I made my purchase....

"All our watches are in the best possible condition both internally and externally. The watch you see on our site is the watch you get, so you can see just how good the condition is from the high-resolution images we provide for each item. If you buy from the site and don't like what you receive, you can send it back within seven days for a full refund."

I couldn't see any mention of who pays the return postage.

[JasonM]

Sadly condition is quite subjective to individual appraisers. Don't trust anyones but your own.
Im surprised sellers of second hand watches don't have a blanket quote along the lines of ' some wear and tear as normal for a second hand watch'. Its never going to be as new, anything else is subjective.

[Snowdon]

I'd say you've done okay considering you have gotten your money back less the postage.

Life is too short.

I'd not use WF myself but for reasons other than those you have posted about. This is a minor thing in the scheme of reasons not to shop at WF

[t72]

I think the main problem I had is that I actually asked if there were any marks on the watch and was told no. Which was wholly inaccurate. I agree condition is subjective and my main advice to anyone is to build up a relationship with an individual in an organisation whom you can trust. I had this with Jonathan Brett at watchfinder and found him to be good to deal with but sadly he has now moved on and the service now is non existent. The main trouble is that the sales guys there now are just interested in numbers and not the customer, which is very sad.
As for the postage I would wholeheartedly agree that I am liable but my argument is that watchfinder when asked misdescribed the watch and had I know the real condition would not have purchased it. Therefore at the time of saying I would send it back I stated that I would expect the postage to be refunded. Watchfinder even asked for a copy of the receipt and stated it had been passed to their accounts department to sort. This implies that they were going to refund the postage in this case but in a month have not heard anything! They should not have asked for the postage receipt if they were not going to refund the postage or told me that it had been passed to the accounts department to sort!
I realise that we all take a risk when dealing with online companies, but when you ask a question and they tell porkys then that's not really good enough.
I have posted this thread as I have seen several threads in the past asking about watchfinder and I feel we must share so that others maybe better informed and ask more questions when dealing with them. I also feel that watchfinder as they have got larger have sacrificed the service they offered when first opened which is very sad.

[cyrusir]

when buying used from watchfinder you have to be prepared for the watch not to be as described, if you go in with that approach you will either be proven right and you can return or pleasantly surprised and you can keep,

if the worst thing is to be out of pocket for postage its a not a disaster and to be fair they did refund pretty quickly

i only buy new from the likes of WF now, and used from SC only where i can see proper pics that represent the condition. WF website pics are useless IMO

[andrewcregan]

i only buy new from the likes of WF now, and used from SC only where i can see proper pics that represent the condition. WF website pics are useless IMO

I must admit that the only experience that I mentioned above was buying brand new.
Although I had an excellent trade in experience too.

[Rob]

Looking at Watchfinders terms I would assume that if I bought a watch from them which they posted to me and when I tried it on decided I didn't like it, too big, too small, too thick etc I could send it back for a full refund of the watch but lose the cost of the return postage....cheaper than me travelling all the way to London/Bluewater.

If I bought it and found that it was not as described in terms of its condition....ie described as 'no marks' but actually has chewed bracelets screws, heavy marks, numerous dings then I would return it telling them about the description v reality differences and expect, possibly with a bit of prompting, for the refund of the postage.....even though the loss of it was still cheaper than travelling there to see the bashed thing in person originally and then walking away from it

[cyrusir]

I must admit that the only experience that I mentioned above was buying brand new.
Although I had an excellent trade in experience too.

i think we did something similar andrew i have a brand new hulk from them also

[964RS]

Sorry to hear the watch was not as described and the service you received not to your expectations.

From reading your post though I do feel we now live in an age where people's expectations on service are incredibly high as everyone expects 'instantaneous' responses, probably brought about by email/social media/twitter etc etc.

A phone call back within 3 hours and a full refund within 24 working hrs of receipt is not that bad imho of a big company these days....

The condition of the actual watch is another matter but as has been said above that doesn't seem unusual with Watchfinder.

Write the £14 off, put it down to experience and shop elsewhere in future....that hurts them way more than £14 I expect.

[tazio]

The ease of use of purchasing on the web and the huge market that is now availble from your computer is great but like everything else there are downsides .. and one persons condition statement is only that persons opinion ! Offering a full and fast refund seems fair considering how convient this method of purchase is to all of us !!. And after all if they started recieving lots of returns then obvously they would have to tightern up on there descriptions ... I have not delt with them but the one thing i check for is the no fuss returns policy ...

[RogDen]

I have only used them once earlier this year, I also spoke with Kieran did a P/X on my Chronomat for the SeaWolf II that i have now. The Seawolf condition was as expected only downer was that once they received my Chronomat the price given was at the low end of the range originally offered from looking at my photos, (still more than from other places that i had tried) but having no one else wanting it and 0% interest on the balance meant i felt obliged to proceed if i was to do a change.

[learningtofly]

Sorry to hear the watch was not as described and the service you received not to your expectations.

From reading your post though I do feel we now live in an age where people's expectations on service are incredibly high as everyone expects 'instantaneous' responses, probably brought about by email/social media/twitter etc etc.

A phone call back within 3 hours and a full refund within 24 working hrs of receipt is not that bad imho of a big company these days....

The condition of the actual watch is another matter but as has been said above that doesn't seem unusual with Watchfinder.

Write the £14 off, put it down to experience and shop elsewhere in future....that hurts them way more than £14 I expect.

Couldn't have put it better myself, Jason.

[SwissToni]

Hi All,

I purchased twice from Watchfinder, 2 years apart, both with less than great experiences.

____________________________

First time - 2013- Omega Speedmaster (Transitional Dial)

Being a skeptic of them from other peoples reviews I incited the sales discussion over ‘Chat’ and asked incredibly specific questions about condition etc. and clarified any vague answer given to me, once the sale was completed I had the transcript to back up the transaction.

The watch came with a severely damaged bracelet and was losing about 90 seconds a day.

I called them to discuss and was instantly insulted with ‘What do you expect, its old’ followed quickly by 'Send it back if your not happy and once we've received it, checked that its not been damaged we will refund you' by Head Salesman Alex.
So I emailed one of the directors Matt Bowling (got his email from another forum) and after a few days I received the below reply;

“Good Evening Swiss,

I haven’t yet been able to establish the circumstances surrounding your telephone exchanges. In advance of that happening I would like to apologise for the way your enquiry was dealt with. We do deal with postal deadlines but I recognize this could have been handled differently. With respect to the manner in which the problem was identified we ask everyone in the chain to play their part for exactly this eventuality. As disappointing as it is to have a fault I would always rather have it identified before the watch is dispatched, whoever makes the observation. Moving forward I would like to get the watch back to have the timing corrected. The watch as you know has a manual movement so should run equally well in the box and on the wrist. The watch shouldn’t be losing that much time. We will of course pay for the watch to be returned if you are able to supply a receipt for postage. We’ll then make the work a priority and I’ll direct it to our head watchmaker.
We should have made clear the condition of the bracelet on the website prior to sale. It could be that the watch was sold before multiple images were taken which might explain why this didn’t happen. I’m sure the bracelet was examined prior to dispatch and passed as secure. I’ve seen several of the older speedmaster bracelets that look like this in the past. We’ll look at that again when the watch is returned to us.
I’m sorry that this has been a disappointing experience. I hope we are able to demonstrate that our commitment to customer service is genuine, I understand that you have made a significant investment in the watch and hope to have this resolved to your satisfaction as quickly as possible so you can get on with the enjoyment you were expecting.

Best Regards
Matt Bowling
“
After a few emails & calls back and forth with him to establish the details. I was called by Natalie Head of Customer Services who arranged collection and kept me in the loop whilst it was being 'adjusted'.

They fixed it, shoved it into a jiffy and sent it back. When I received it I was horrified at the lack of packaging/ protection and also the missing paint on the top of the chronograph dial hands (they’d been removed for the overhaul).

I contacted Natalie it was collected, repainted and then returned (packaged well).

Here’ s the timeline for that debacle

05/02 - Ordered Watch
26/02 - Received watch
10/03 - Email to Matt
25/03 - Sent to watchfinder, received, then resent
17/04 - Received back fully complete

____________________________

I flipped the Speedy a few weeks later because it reminded me too much of 2 annoying months.

Got a good deal on a PX Milgauss GV which I then sold (to save some money) and got the below Bremont.

____________________________

Second time - 2014 - Bremont

'The watchfinder process of authenticity checking etc mentioned here http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/info/Why-us ‘We use our combined decades' worth of experience, library of reference books and relationships with the manufacturers to make entirely sure that everything we sell is completely authentic.’ Seemed to have failed on this one.

Part One - The Purchase
It was listed as brand new 2014 & under manufactures warranty. Being new to Bremont I didn’t twig that this was a model produced years before this so I went ahead with the purchase.
The watch turned up and I was not disappointed, a true stunner.
Sadly this was the beginning of a pain.
I contacted Bremont to register it and was told that the papers supplied to me were forged (confirmed to them by the retailer listed on the papers), the watch was never sold by that dealer, the watch was sold in 2011 and was no longer under Guarantee.
To get it back under guarantee it would need to be sent back to them and serviced for £375 and would take 6-8 weeks.
I contacted Watchfinder & spoke to the Sales Manager Alex, he was extremely aggressive and asked me ‘what is it I thought they could do about it.’ and was then told ‘If I wasn’t happy to send it back’.
When I made the call to them I was of a vue that they had done nothing wrong (shirt happens) & I was entirely happy with them, just confused by the situation and looking to have a chat to find a resolution (I’d dealt with them previously on the above Omega the customers service person Natalie & Director had handled the whole debacle well albeit slower than I would of liked (However I had forgotten about Alex))
I remembered this, calmly apologised for any negatively received from me and asked him to get the customer services person to contact me.
When she phoned she remembered me and was great once again!, She was understanding, genuine & concerned after listening to my case & checking with Bremont.
She agreed to refund me the difference between the price I paid and the value of the unit I received.
The offer ended up being reasonable and they put in a little for postage costs. She insisted that I take a few days to think about accepting a partial or sending it back for a full refund.
(Also she seemed very understanding & unsurprised by my experiences from Alex )
I accepted the partial refund.


Part Two - The Warranty Claim

"Peace Of Mind Ownership
The experience doesn't end once you receive the watch. Every item we sell is covered by a twelve month comprehensive Watchfinder warranty in addition to any remaining manufacturer's warranty to protect you if it goes wrong." [/url]http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/info/Why-Buy-Pre-owned[/url]
They don't seem to acknowledge this point


2 days shy of 3 months later, I had really bonded with the watch. Sadly like all great loves the honeymoon had to end… I woke up after not wearing it for a few days, I set the time, gave it a little power boost manually before attaching it to my wrist. On about the 5th wind, the crown went very stiff then very loose and came out with the stem attached.
I contacted Watchfinder they sent me out the returns pack and 2 weeks later I got an email with a Bremont quote asking for £375.
Now I am not known to be greedy but I was really not happy with this.
I asked them to cover the cost as its still under their warranty.
They said that the refund was given so that I could send it to be serviced and even though I was under no obligation to have done it they still weren’t going to cover the costs.
At no point during the previous partial refund discussion was I told I was waiving the rights to their standard warranty.
I contacted Bremont to ask if they could provide me with the actual reason of the failure.
The reason was listed as general wear and tear due to age and they clearly wrote "Not any fault from misuse"
After presenting this analysis to Watchfinder they once again point blank refused to cover the cost of the repair.

Part Three - Payment Protection
So I paid Bremont directly and appealed to my credit card company.
6 Weeks later the Credit Card people agreed with my stance and granted me a refund of £375.
The meant a saving off Watchfinders initial charge but a lot of hassle.

____________________________

My experiences are what they were. As we all know there are so many variables with any interaction (and emotions usually when it involves the exchange of money) that no two can be the same and that your never going to please all of the people all of the time.

In summary I found that mostly everyone I dealt with at Watchfinder seems to be at normal everyday standards.... except for one... because of every moment of conversation spanning nearly 2 years with Alex Stonely, he has only ever shown himself to me as someone I would not employ or recommend to be employed in a customer facing position, he seems to have nothing but contempt for us mere human beings.
____________________________

I apologise for the longwinded post, but hopefully it helps to add to the perspective

[Velorum]

I used them for my Speedmaster - it was a good experience

After ordering I received a call asking whether I wanted any links taken out of the bracelet and following delivery a courtesy call to check that all was OK and see if I was happy with it.

[t72]

Hi Swiss,
I would reinforce your views. The owners seem to be quite good if you can get them involved. The problem seems to be in the sales office. The attitude changes as soon as there is a problem and they will not return calls and drag it out. When I was trying to sort my problem out I was told the manager (Alex I presume) was at lunch, 3 hours!! I had to do all the calling!
I feel sorry for those who are watch newbies who don't know better and end up with a bad watch shoved up their you know what at all the money. 😞
The refund which I was told was being sorted on the Friday was not done until Monday and only after I had chased and the money returned to my account 3 days after that!!

[bryanthelion]

a large selection of watches - never personally used them though.

[Tim63]

Oh great......I had been really excited about the prospect of a Breitling Headwind arrival next week.....now I am just worried about the condition it will be in on arrival!!!!

[tim2012]

Conditions of watches are subjective and what one thinks is very good may not be to others. The main thing is the OP has his money back. It is a pain though, as I know what it is like!

[burnsey66]

I went into the London store with a colleague, funds at the ready, with the aim of spending £8k.

He asked if they would consider a PX of his current watch (circa £3k).

The very young assistant chucked it on a tray and took it into the back, reappearing after a couple of minutes saying they would give £2k, reinforced on the scrap of paper in her hand.

No further chat, just take it or leave it.

We left, he sold the watch and bought the very same he would have bought that day.

There was zero interest, or passion - an essential ingredient in the watch sales job, for me anyway.

[reggie747]

Well thank you Swiss for your informing contribution and in summary remind me NEVER to allow Watchfinder to even kiss my ass based on that less than best service you've written about.
Oh and probably the same to Bremont too with their £ 375 to replace a crown.....

Hi All,

I purchased twice from Watchfinder, 2 years apart, both with less than great experiences.

____________________________

First time - 2013- Omega Speedmaster (Transitional Dial)

Being a skeptic of them from other peoples reviews I incited the sales discussion over ‘Chat’ and asked incredibly specific questions about condition etc. and clarified any vague answer given to me, once the sale was completed I had the transcript to back up the transaction.

The watch came with a severely damaged bracelet and was losing about 90 seconds a day.

I called them to discuss and was instantly insulted with ‘What do you expect, its old’ followed quickly by 'Send it back if your not happy and once we've received it, checked that its not been damaged we will refund you' by Head Salesman Alex.
So I emailed one of the directors Matt Bowling (got his email from another forum) and after a few days I received the below reply;

“Good Evening Swiss,

I haven’t yet been able to establish the circumstances surrounding your telephone exchanges. In advance of that happening I would like to apologise for the way your enquiry was dealt with. We do deal with postal deadlines but I recognize this could have been handled differently. With respect to the manner in which the problem was identified we ask everyone in the chain to play their part for exactly this eventuality. As disappointing as it is to have a fault I would always rather have it identified before the watch is dispatched, whoever makes the observation. Moving forward I would like to get the watch back to have the timing corrected. The watch as you know has a manual movement so should run equally well in the box and on the wrist. The watch shouldn’t be losing that much time. We will of course pay for the watch to be returned if you are able to supply a receipt for postage. We’ll then make the work a priority and I’ll direct it to our head watchmaker.
We should have made clear the condition of the bracelet on the website prior to sale. It could be that the watch was sold before multiple images were taken which might explain why this didn’t happen. I’m sure the bracelet was examined prior to dispatch and passed as secure. I’ve seen several of the older speedmaster bracelets that look like this in the past. We’ll look at that again when the watch is returned to us.
I’m sorry that this has been a disappointing experience. I hope we are able to demonstrate that our commitment to customer service is genuine, I understand that you have made a significant investment in the watch and hope to have this resolved to your satisfaction as quickly as possible so you can get on with the enjoyment you were expecting.

Best Regards
Matt Bowling
“
After a few emails & calls back and forth with him to establish the details. I was called by Natalie Head of Customer Services who arranged collection and kept me in the loop whilst it was being 'adjusted'.

They fixed it, shoved it into a jiffy and sent it back. When I received it I was horrified at the lack of packaging/ protection and also the missing paint on the top of the chronograph dial hands (they’d been removed for the overhaul).

I contacted Natalie it was collected, repainted and then returned (packaged well).

Here’ s the timeline for that debacle

05/02 - Ordered Watch
26/02 - Received watch
10/03 - Email to Matt
25/03 - Sent to watchfinder, received, then resent
17/04 - Received back fully complete

____________________________

I flipped the Speedy a few weeks later because it reminded me too much of 2 annoying months.

Got a good deal on a PX Milgauss GV which I then sold (to save some money) and got the below Bremont.

____________________________

Second time - 2014 - Bremont

'The watchfinder process of authenticity checking etc mentioned here http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/info/Why-us ‘We use our combined decades' worth of experience, library of reference books and relationships with the manufacturers to make entirely sure that everything we sell is completely authentic.’ Seemed to have failed on this one.

Part One - The Purchase
It was listed as brand new 2014 & under manufactures warranty. Being new to Bremont I didn’t twig that this was a model produced years before this so I went ahead with the purchase.
The watch turned up and I was not disappointed, a true stunner.
Sadly this was the beginning of a pain.
I contacted Bremont to register it and was told that the papers supplied to me were forged (confirmed to them by the retailer listed on the papers), the watch was never sold by that dealer, the watch was sold in 2011 and was no longer under Guarantee.
To get it back under guarantee it would need to be sent back to them and serviced for £375 and would take 6-8 weeks.
I contacted Watchfinder & spoke to the Sales Manager Alex, he was extremely aggressive and asked me ‘what is it I thought they could do about it.’ and was then told ‘If I wasn’t happy to send it back’.
When I made the call to them I was of a vue that they had done nothing wrong (shirt happens) & I was entirely happy with them, just confused by the situation and looking to have a chat to find a resolution (I’d dealt with them previously on the above Omega the customers service person Natalie & Director had handled the whole debacle well albeit slower than I would of liked (However I had forgotten about Alex))
I remembered this, calmly apologised for any negatively received from me and asked him to get the customer services person to contact me.
When she phoned she remembered me and was great once again!, She was understanding, genuine & concerned after listening to my case & checking with Bremont.
She agreed to refund me the difference between the price I paid and the value of the unit I received.
The offer ended up at £405 (£375 & £30 for postage costs). She insisted that I take a few days to think about accepting a partial or sending it back for a full refund.
(Also she seemed very understanding & unsurprised by my experiences from Alex )
I accepted the partial refund.


Part Two - The Warranty Claim

"Peace Of Mind Ownership
The experience doesn't end once you receive the watch. Every item we sell is covered by a twelve month comprehensive Watchfinder warranty in addition to any remaining manufacturer's warranty to protect you if it goes wrong." [/url]http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/info/Why-Buy-Pre-owned[/url]
They don't seem to acknowledge this point


2 days shy of 3 months later, I had really bonded with the watch. Sadly like all great loves the honeymoon had to end… I woke up after not wearing it for a few days, I set the time, gave it a little power boost manually before attaching it to my wrist. On about the 5th wind, the crown went very stiff then very loose and came out with the stem attached.
I contacted Watchfinder they sent me out the returns pack and 2 weeks later I got an email with a Bremont quote asking for £375.
Now I am not known to be greedy but I was really not happy with this.
I asked them to cover the cost as its still under their warranty.
They said that the refund was given so that I could send it to be serviced and even though I was under no obligation to have done it they still weren’t going to cover the costs.
At no point during the previous partial refund discussion was I told I was waiving the rights to their standard warranty.
I contacted Bremont to ask if they could provide me with the actual reason of the failure.
The reason was listed as general wear and tear due to age and they clearly wrote "Not any fault from misuse"
After presenting this analysis to Watchfinder they once again point blank refused to cover the cost of the repair.

Part Three - Payment Protection
So I paid Bremont directly and appealed to my credit card company.
6 Weeks later the Credit Card people agreed with my stance and granted me a refund of £375.
The meant a total saving of £780 off Watchfinders initial charge but a lot of hassle.

____________________________

My experiences are what they were. As we all know there are so many variables with any interaction (and emotions usually when it involves the exchange of money) that no two can be the same and that your never going to please all of the people all of the time.

In summary I found that mostly everyone I dealt with at Watchfinder seems to be at normal everyday standards.... except for one... because of every moment of conversation spanning nearly 2 years with Alex Stonely, he has only ever shown himself to me as someone I would not employ or recommend to be employed in a customer facing position, he seems to have nothing but contempt for us mere human beings.
____________________________

I apologise for the longwinded post, but hopefully it helps to add to the perspective

[MFB Scotland]

I have had two good and one bad experience with watch finder.

Unlike say watches.co.uk they are not upfront about condition merely stating it has been through their workshop.

I returned a Bremont Solo as it had a very significant and deep scratch on the crystal. No competent watchmaker or salesperson could miss it.

[Onelasttime]

Well thank you Swiss for your informing contribution and in summary remind me NEVER to allow Watchfinder to even kiss my ass based on that less than best service you've written about.
Oh and probably the same to Bremont too with their £ 375 to replace a crown.....

In fairness to Bremont, £375 was for a full service and 2-year warranty, and the watch would have come back as new.

EDIT: just realised this was my post number 666

[reggie747]

^^
I'm sorry but I'm off all things Bremont for the forseeable. I'm sure you understand. I've never tasted them but there's a bad taste in my mouth....

[jules s]

Not been on here for a while but felt compelled to add to this thread

For some time I was searching for a specific Panerai. Whilst browsing around, I came across an 089 on their site which caught my eye

Similar to above, I entered into a 'chat' online, and was assured of the condition/it's been serviced by our service dept etc

Having been fixated by 213's it took me a short time to realise the 089 they were selling had the crown bridge on upside down

When I pointed that small issue out they ceased all contact

MEH, off to browse sales now Im back :)

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[Barton Red]

I had a similarish experience with them. The refund for the watch went back onto the card within a couple of days, a cheque for the postage followed a couple of weeks later, by that point I'd written it off, but to be fair they did refund as they said they would.

[ach5]

I expect Watchfinder pulled the original owners pants down over the condition when he was selling it to them, but it never works the other way around!

[Nansbread1]

Buyer pays lots of money for watch.

Buyer does not like watch

Buyer returns watch

Buyer gets refund after a few days

Buyer loses very little money compared to the total transaction on return postage

Whats is the real problem here. As a buyer i would be happy with this chain of events.

[bitfield]

Whats is the real problem here. As a buyer i would be happy with this chain of events.

If that's true, I've got a watch I'd like to sell you.

[snowman]

A phone call back within 3 hours and a full refund within 24 working hrs of receipt is not that bad imho of a big company these days....

Whilst I'd think very hard about dealing with WF personally (I often browse their Royal Exchange shop, but their prices always seem steep to me), I have to agree with the above.

"At lunch", might have meant in a meeting with a supplier or at a scan with his wife or anything. Response the same day seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Likewise a 24 hour refund turnaround seems perfectly reasonable.

As to the condition of the watch, if you want to know for sure, see it first, but as the OP couldn't/wouldn't do that, then the option to return for a refund is the standard approach to these things and expecting return postage to be refunded seems a bit unreasonable to me. Otherwise, you could order up a new watch every week, return it and get a refund.

I'm not suggesting the OP did this, but the refund is there to allow you a chance to assess it, everyone will have a different idea of what constitutes acceptable condition on a used watch. By not travelling to their store you're saving time/money in excess of £14 I'm sure.

Although you'd LIKE to think WF recruit people who know and love watches, my experience is much more akin to dealing with used car dealers...

M

[dannywalker39]

I almost purchased my watch through Wwatchfinder. Quite glad i didnt now heard a few bad reviews recently.

[DB9yeti]

I almost purchased my watch through Wwatchfinder. Quite glad i didnt now heard a few bad reviews recently.

Did you even read the post?

Bought watch after hammering them on price, thought it 'not as described' so tried to hammer them on price again, they didn't budge further, sent it back for a full refund.

What exactly is the problem???

[DB9yeti]

Although you'd LIKE to think WF recruit people who know and love watches, my experience is much more akin to dealing with used car dealers...

M

This, sadly. I used to go in and chat for ages with the staff there, Simon, Michael and Martin all knew their watches and would happily chat for hours and always able to do a deal on buying, selling or part-ex'ing. Now... It's just kids in shiny suits, almost as bad as going into a mobile phone shop.

[patnmand]

I've posted my own experiences with Watchfinder here (http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...der-experience). I think they do need to work on the attitude of their sales people, and I had a slightly strange experience when I was considering selling them my Sea-Dweller (to help plug the hole left by buying the Zenith). It went a bit like this:

Me: Would you like to buy my Sea-Dweller? Here are all the details.
Them: Yes. We will offer between £x and £y for it.
Me: Thanks for your reply. That's not enough so I won't be going any further (this wasn't a bargaining ploy; their offer wasn't outlandishly low, it was just less than I was prepared to let the SD go for)
Them: Sorry. Would you like us to see if we can offer more?
Me: I wasn't expecting to hear back from you, but if you think you can increase your offer that would be great.
Them: No, we can't.
Me: OK then.

I think they are probably victims of their own success a bit. They have so many watches that it would be impossible for the sales people to know everything about all of them and I imagine they get a fair number of tyre-kickers (or the watch equivalent) for each genuine enquiry. However, they ought to do something about their quality control, because if they're sending stuff out that isn't as described then that's going to do their reputation no end of harm. At least they offer a refund, but that should only be required very occasionally.

I guess the moral of the story is, if you're buying from them via post then you might have to send it back. If you can get into store to inspect that's probably better as they don't seem to have a clue what they've got or what condition it's in.

[MFB Scotland]

^^
I'm sorry but I'm off all things Bremont for the forseeable. I'm sure you understand. I've never tasted them but there's a bad taste in my mouth....

[Rodder]

I think they're hit and miss. I sold a watch to them and received near to the top end of the estimate. From receiving the watch they took a few days to do everything; confirm price and then pay money in to account. This resulted in me having to phone a few times, can't remember names but some were polite and helpful and others clearly couldn't give a damn. I asked about a part ex on this watch http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/Tag%20H...044/item/45267 but they quoted such a high price I didn't even negotiate. Apparently they were saving it for an auction. And that was around four months ago now.

[treebirch]

Sorry to hear the watch was not as described and the service you received not to your expectations.

From reading your post though I do feel we now live in an age where people's expectations on service are incredibly high as everyone expects 'instantaneous' responses, probably brought about by email/social media/twitter etc etc.

A phone call back within 3 hours and a full refund within 24 working hrs of receipt is not that bad imho of a big company these days....

The condition of the actual watch is another matter but as has been said above that doesn't seem unusual with Watchfinder.

Write the £14 off, put it down to experience and shop elsewhere in future....that hurts them way more than £14 I expect.

I know I have said it before but try living in France, the other day I ordered 5 ignition coils for my car, I paid for 48hr delivery, 4 days later they showed up, but with one missing. I called the supplier straight away, I asked them to dispatch the 5th one on a next day service. They informed me that because I had selected 48hr service they would send the remaining one the same way and that it would take them 48hrs to prepare the order and 48hrs for it to get to me. 2 weeks later I finally got the 5th coil! That's frustrating!

[steptoe]

Seems a perfectly good company ... You buy a watch, don't like it or think it's not as described , they refund you . All pretty simple and straightforward.

[UKWatchGuy]

You would need to handle the watch in person.
If you can't do that then close up detailed photos of the watch would suffice.

If none of the above then walk away, why would you buy unseen based on the subjective 'opinion' of a salesman !

[mart broad]

Any form of Internet purchase where one is not handling or getting touchy freely with the product can be subjective for instance since moving it takes me an hour to an hour and a half to get to a decent M&S or John Lewis so we use the net not all purchases are up to scratch in size,fit or quality and go back and if I have to I pick up the return postage which is a darn sight less than my fuel or time costings why should a watch purchase be different?
Bottom line IMO. you bought a watch and haggled a deal which turned out not to up to scratch returned it got refunded and paid a few quid in postage which was a darn sight less than going to their store next time go to the store.

[MFB Scotland]

Seems a perfectly good company ... You buy a watch, don't like it or think it's not as described , they refund you . All pretty simple and straightforward.

That was my experience.

However, for me the issue is that the customer cannot rely on an accurate description with regard to condition. It would be much better if they graded the watch like say Parkers or watches.co.uk.

[alanm_3]

Maybe I've just been lucky but almost all of my dealings with WF have been positive, with only 1 negative one and that included the input of Alex, as mentioned above, due to my regular contact being on holiday. I has asked for a trade-in price for a watch I was planning to flip, so sent an email, got a response with an initial offer, to which I responded with a counter offer. Never got a reply and after a few days, I mailed him again to be told "I never replied, as that was my offer, take it or leave it".

Customer friendly he most certainly isn't but as a sales manager, perhaps that was to be expected.

[davy26]

Any form of Internet purchase where one is not handling or getting touchy freely with the product can be subjective for instance since moving it takes me an hour to an hour and a half to get to a decent M&S or John Lewis so we use the net not all purchases are up to scratch in size,fit or quality and go back and if I have to I pick up the return postage which is a darn sight less than my fuel or time costings why should a watch purchase be different?
Bottom line IMO. you bought a watch and haggled a deal which turned out not to up to scratch returned it got refunded and paid a few quid in postage which was a darn sight less than going to their store next time go to the store.

I have had only one WF transaction and it was fine. Crucially, I'm not too far from Maidstone so was able to go and inspect the watch (Speedy) prior to purchase. As well as being able to really assess the watch, a visit enables a proper interaction with the PERSON involved - very good for rapport and honesty. In my situation I was not only fully happy with the watch, but also able to negotiate a further price drop in friendly eye to eye style. In my view WF are good on price but obviously operate on high turnover which makes attention to detail difficult for the business - but not for us, the buyers. Surely we've got the time - and the motivation of course - to look into everything very carefully; to me that's part of the fun of watch collecting, (and it can be an anti-climax when everything has checked out and you've bought it: all you can do then is wind and wear the bloody thing!).

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[lordloz]

Whilst I'd think very hard about dealing with WF personally (I often browse their Royal Exchange shop, but their prices always seem steep to me), I have to agree with the above.

"At lunch", might have meant in a meeting with a supplier or at a scan with his wife or anything. Response the same day seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Likewise a 24 hour refund turnaround seems perfectly reasonable.

As to the condition of the watch, if you want to know for sure, see it first, but as the OP couldn't/wouldn't do that, then the option to return for a refund is the standard approach to these things and expecting return postage to be refunded seems a bit unreasonable to me. Otherwise, you could order up a new watch every week, return it and get a refund.

I'm not suggesting the OP did this, but the refund is there to allow you a chance to assess it, everyone will have a different idea of what constitutes acceptable condition on a used watch. By not travelling to their store you're saving time/money in excess of £14 I'm sure.

Although you'd LIKE to think WF recruit people who know and love watches, my experience is much more akin to dealing with used car dealers...

Putting my tuppence in...

To slightly defend WF and I have never dealt with them or have any connection but I found when hiring a van for instance and my deposit is refunded it's not like a bank transfer payment to friends and family or SC and has taken 48 hours to process before now? My bank (Metro) though is frequently quite slow so 24 hours is reasonable I agree.

The postage is annoying but most stuff purchased online or by mail can be returned but general rule is post charges are sellers discretion and one of chances not dealing direct with bricks and mortar in person. For large amounts that the watches bought are hopefully £14 (as Snowman says above) is worth risking if big savings have been made buying online etc.

Of course because it's bought unseen and online or over phone you are perfectly entitled to a refund completely because they are trading under distance selling regulations and have to refund you for whatever reason (or no reason) they have no choice on this so they aren't giving away anymore than any other retailer to customers with their guarantee....

This one character Alex and one or two perhaps other front of house staff need some customer service training though I do agree... and I'm sure we're all grateful for feedback like this which means we're forewarned and therefore forearmed and that puts us in a strong position....

I know we have heroes and villains but maybe we need a watch dealers version of Trip Advisor