Reply With QuoteThink why someone would pay daft sums for a pair of football boots signed by a player.
Different forms of previous ownership appeals to different people.
A genuine question, provoked by someone listing an 'issued Sub' as their 'exit watch' in another thread.
What is the particular appeal to people of watches that are, to all intents and purposes the same as a watch you can buy in a jewellers, of 'issued' watches?
I can see it if a father/grandfather wore it or if you're ex-services and were issued it, but I wonder what the appeal is for those with no obvious military connections.
Not looking to get flamed, as it's a question asked with no judgement (for or against), I just struggle to understand why people will pay, sometimes, considerably more for the same watch when 'issued'.
Thanks to anyone who wants to enlighten me.
Cheers.
M.
Think why someone would pay daft sums for a pair of football boots signed by a player.
Different forms of previous ownership appeals to different people.
I guess it's the same as any military paraphernalia, the watch will have some history, maybe...
Recently someone pointed out to me that one of my stolen service medals had appeared on eBay, people were bidding on it... I don't get it personally, why would someone want to buy a medal that was issued to me and not them?
adds value maybe? Like a comex vs standard Rolex
I'd like to think that an issued watch has a bit more of a "story to tell", if such things were possible, than the same watch non issued.
Surely an issued watch could have been worn by a clerk, recruitment office staff, or cook etc, and never made it out of the UK?
Undoubtedly, but why let the truth get in the way of a damn good story.Originally Posted by andrewcregan
I think this is it, down to the imagination of the owner really. A good condition issued watch probably spent it's life sat on a shelf somewhere.
Many watches didn't get issued from our stores because like a lot of issued gear, there were better alternatives. A g-shock was more practical than a G10. Also if you had an issued watch it was only temporary, you never owned it and would be required to hand it back in regularly for stock takes.
I have a G10 here that doesn't look like it was ever worn, they get marks on the back from the nato strap and this has none.
Lol, I like it
That is very likely. Due to limited numbers and the way things work with issued kit, if you are friends with the quartermaster you would be more likely to have an issued watch.
The appeal to me is not only the military ownership but even more the service history and history associated to these old tool watches. Depending on the military watches your collect you just can't go into a jewelers a buy "a new copy".
Personally I collect vintage manual wind pilot chrono's. These were to a large extend made on direct order from the air forces why no civil counter part exists. They are not horological wonders, although many of them have the flyback complication, but most importantly they have been worn and used as they were intended. That's what appeals to me - tool watches used as tools. Any civilian pilot could have used his chrono exactly the same way, but how do we know?
Do we know if "my" chrono's was used as intended? Of course not. Unless you pry off the watch from the wrist of a military pilot you have no proof for the individual watch. I do however think that there is pre-internet documentation for 99% of the military watches being collected, showing that the models saw service, and was used. This documentation is pictures, interviews with pilots, watchmakers, watch firms etc.
In the above context I will highlight the French Air Force chronographs, that carries the watchmakers service dates* on the outside of the case back. To me it is something special to know that my particular Vixa Type 20, was in service from May 1956 to at least March 17th 1980. During that time it was serviced 7 times and at least once at Pechoin in Paris.
/longbear
*the marks on the back are Fin de Garantie, why actual service is two years before that.
Let's face it, there are an awful lot of Walts out there
To me it is the history of the watch that matters, and issued military watches, unlike most of their civvy counterparts, have history. Even if the watch just sat in stores for years it still has the gravitas and history of being held in readiness for the defence of a country.
It is the same with firearms. I can buy a factory new rifle that will perform flawlessly but the thing has no history, no.. ..soul.
Compare the plastic fantastic civilian sporting rifles of today with this Lee Enfield SHT.LE MkIII .303:
The numbers stamped in the metal and the wood and the Lithgow cartouche tell me that the rifle was built in the Lithgow (Australia) Small Arms Factory in 1917 and issued to the 3rd Military District (Victoria) of the Commonwealth Military Forces in September 1917 with inventory/rack number 45134. The HV stamping tells me that the rifle sights were graduated for the "new" high velocity .303 MkVII full metal jacket ammunition. The fact that all serial numbers stamped on the metal parts and wood match, that it retains the original magazine cut-off, windage adjustable rear sight and piling swivel tells me that the rifle is all original from when it was built in 1917 and was not converted to the MkIII* configuration. Against the odds the rifle was never altered by arsenal refurbishment except for a new barrel. There is an H stamped in the wood at the top of the wrist and on the barrel Knox form and the numbers 9 58 and the Lithgow Star * stamped on the Knox form (not shown) that tells me that the rifle was re-barreled by Lithgow in September 1958 with the heavy target/sniper rifle barrel.
Reference to serial number records tells me that the rifle was issued to the Australian Mounted Division as a replacement weapon and used by the 8th Light Horse Regiment from December 1917 to 1919 in the Sinai and Palestine Campaign; that the rifle was returned to stores after WW1; taken from stores in 1941 and issued to the 39th Battalion where the rifle served in New Guinea from January 1942 until the end of WW2; issued to 3RAR in October 1945 where the rifle was taken to Japan with the occupation forces; taken by 3RAR to Korea in 1950 and was used during that conflict. After the Korean War the rifle was returned to stores until it was re-barreled with the H barrel in 1958 shortly before being replaced by the SLR L1A1 Rifle in 1959. It was then sold out of service to a rifle club in Victoria.
Now I have it with 98 years of history and dings and dents on the wood.
I am custodian of a piece of Australian history that I shoot in Military Rifle competitions. The rifle will still put shots into the target black at 300, 500 and 600 yards even with my old eyes.
I will care for into it's hundredth year and beyond until on my passing another custodian takes over.
It is the same way that I use and care for the 5513 I bought in Vũng Tàu in 1971, the various British CWC G10s and Pulsars, the US Hamilton, Benrus, Westclox and Marathons, Russian Vostoks and Pobedas and Vietnam People's Air Force Seagull chrono in my collection.
As I said gentlemen, it is all about the history.
Cheers!
I have nothing more to add. This is what it’s all about as far as I’m concerned.
And about the Vixa Type 20 engravings... This is what they look like:
There are also other, rather more prosaic set of attractions for "issued" pieces. And their added value compared to un-issued pieces.
In collectors terms, the specification has been written by the customer, and adhered to by the watchmaker, not all made by the watchmaker.
And this is usually documented, which adds to the background of the watch model, and is something rarely found in older "non-issued" pieces.
As is the procurement history, often also documented, with batches (and numbers within those batches) bought and issued at specific times.
As such, one can gain a truly complete picture of the issued watch, knowing what spec it was made to, what batch it was supplied within, how many were in that batch and what ID number a specific example is.
This is true collectors' dream territory. They can know with total certainty that their example is one of two hundred (or thousand, whatever). It quantifies rarity, and (in good examples) proves beyond reproach the originality (of the case at least) and so forth.
I know this sounds odd, and may not really be an attraction, but it is certainly something that will add value to issued pieces, and it adds it in a way almost totally unknown in civilian collecting.
Dave
A true limited edition
Designed and built for a specific purpose
Rarity value and solid investment
Provenance (If you are lucky)
Low key (and sometimes unique) design
And you are unlikely to see another while walking down the street
Terry
Hmmm....
I'd like a Rolex Milsub with sword hands because it doesn't really look like the sort of Sub a banker would wear and it has a 60 minute bezel. But's I'd also like SL lume and mint condition.
Most RN divers I knew used Seikos - I know I did. One of my colleagues did have a MilSub, and I reckoned the lume and legibility were inferior to my Seiko.
Quite liked the CWC Diver when I got issued it, but sadly it didn't have a date so I left it in the drawer and used my Heuer Chrono....
A Steinhart OVM might scratch that itch. Though, of course, it's not the real thing, which is where we came in.
I also collect a few military arms they do have history the last weapon I got last year a Remington Rand 1911 issued in1944 plus it was the issued side arm I was issued on quarter deck watch on ship. But let get back to why we collect issued watches it's the history they have and there are less of them than new off the self watches that every body else has. Issued watches are rare and getting harder to find having a watch with history and one not many else have and fun is in the hunt is why we do it. I was not on the hunt and just added this today Precista 1993 RN Quartz Diver should get it in a few weeks.
Friends in low places always helped when trying to extract kit. I remember hearing the story of a QM telling a young Marine that he couldn't have something even though he could see it on the shelf. He was informed that they were stores and were for storing and that if they'd meant them to be given out they'd be called issues.
I was lucky enough to the issued a G10 and to manage to hold onto it but, as has been suggested I actually used a G Shock most of the time with a Seiko divers watch used as well.
Graham
When you consider many of the guys in the forces choose to wear a watch of their own choice,G-Shock one of the favourites.
Would that mean if he were to sell his non supplied MOD watch and sell HIS chosen watch he wore whilst in service,could he get more for the watch!...........well it was worn in the services and has a story to tell.
It is odd yes,but I have just bought an issued CWC Royal Marines diver,and presently have the NON issued auto date version inbound........just a great looking watch.
Not for me, as I'm on Longbears side. The ultimate toolwatch aspect (watch made according to demands and specifications which the MoD thought was necessary for the users) doesn't apply in your example. AFAIK hardly any watches are made especially for an army nowadays. No need for that anyway as watches like G-Shock have become so complete/multi purpose. What is there to add?
Watches will be collected for various reasons,the fact some can't understand those reasons doesn't make it any different to collecting watches in general whether new vintage or a specific brand or use.
I can't say I like all watches ever made,but I do know what I like when I see it,but most of mine have been divers tbh,with the old faithful Rolex 1601 for those dressier moments.
It doesn't have 4467 on the back by any chance?
Graham
No.
Non at all, makes no odds to me.
I don't understand why all the fuss of paying premium prices for something that's been kicked around.
Bugger, could have named your price.
Thats why you wouldn't buy one.Non at all, makes no odds to me.
I don't understand why all the fuss of paying premium prices for something that's been kicked around.
BUT many would and do 😋
We have an old, really beat up bag that we use for clothes pegs. The other day I asked my wife why we didn't get rid of it and get something new. She said she wanted to keep it because was the shoulder bag that her father used during WWII (for a gas mask and such, I presume). No markings are on it, so I don't know whether it was issued or not, but I don't care either.
I also have the watch he used then (not issued) and the compass he used (issued, I believe).
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 19th September 2015 at 16:32.
Just providing a counterpoint chum, this hobby / obsession of ours is a broad church, I really enjoy reading the threads devoted to uncovering the back history of a particular watch, but paying well over the odds for one just well, for me anyway no, but I'm good with those that feel the need.
What's not to like, sword hands which are superior than Mercedes to me, plus 60 min bezel. 5517 was only made for the MOD, I think. Add on the caseback markings and you have the most iconic watch that Rolex made. As others have said, each to their own
http://www.thetimetraveler.co/watche...0-milsub-5517/
Finding stuff like this make me collect issued watches not to kicked around some how this issued one found it's way to the states
Last edited by River Rat; 26th September 2015 at 16:49.
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