Reply With QuoteUnfortunately this is not the first time this has happened. It is worrying because you had a full service and you just wondered what they have messed up!
Happy Tuesday Folks...
My Dad's 18k Gold White dial IWC Portofino started playing up recently to the point where it stopped completely. Well out of warranty so a number of options open to us in terms of servicing as I believe these just have an ETA 2829-2 movement. It's the first service since buying new about 6 years ago. The watch is no safe queen and is worn every day so the crystal was looking a little worse for wear and the gold looking a little dull so the decision was made to give the whole watch a bit of an overhaul and it was decided that we should take the AD route so that the watch will come back with a 2 year warranty from IWC.
I took the watch down to DM Robinson in Canary Wharf on my lunch break. They were fantastic as usual and booked the watch in while I had a cup of coffee and enjoyed the free chocolates. This was back in April. As well as getting the movement serviced, my Dad wanted a new crystal and for them to give the watch a polish to bring back some of the lustre...No issues so far...
Fast forward to Thursday the 11th of June and i get an email from DM Robinson that the watch is ready for collection. My office building is just above the shopping centre where DMR is located so went down there straight away. I took a Loupe with me to inspect every inch of the watch before accepting it. The watch looked absolutely stunning and was ticking away merrily. I happily accepted the watch and gave it back to my Dad the same evening. He was as you can imagine, over the moon...
Fast forward another couple of days and I pop in to my parents place on the way home. I ask my Dad about the watch and he says that it doesn't appear to be keeping very good time and in fact it stopped last night...I thought perhaps he has not wound it properly and proceed to wind the watch using the appropriate method of gently shaking it. I did this for quite a while to be confident that the watch was properly wound.
Went round the next day and again enquired about the watch. He again said that it is losing time and had in fact stopped on his wrist!...I couldn't believe it!...I then decided to wear the watch for a few days to see if I could replicate the issue. It didn't take long...After a couple of hours the watch stopped on my wrist as well...I still wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt as I refused to believe that a freshly serviced watch could have these sort of issues so I wore it for a few more days...It continued to have the same issues. Work for a few hours then stop completely.
So yesterday took it down to DMR again to send back to IWC. The watch has completely stopped by this point and no amount of shaking/winding with the crown could get that little second hand moving again...The assistant tried and failed. So now its on its way back to IWC to find out what the problem is...
How disappointing. My Dad absolutely loves this watch. He fell in love with it at the IWC Boutique in Hong Kong and bought it on the spot and it has been a constant companion since then. When he got it back after the service and saw that the watch was like new again he was very excited but these issues have taken the shine off somewhat...
I am just hoping that they manage to locate and resolve whatever the issue is. I can't believe that they would not properly check and test the watch before sending it back to the customer. Very disappointed in IWC. I was actually thinking of buying a Stainless Steel Portofino for myself in the future when I have the funds but am in two minds now.
For those that are interested I will update this thread as and when...
Unfortunately this is not the first time this has happened. It is worrying because you had a full service and you just wondered what they have messed up!
Not the first time I've come across such a story, regarding IWC.........
Let's hope, for your dad's and IWC's sake, they will do their utmost to set things straight.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Or JLC. Or Rolex. Or >insert any brand here<Originally Posted by Daddelvirks
It happens; it's incredibly annoying, it's shoddy that it can and does happen and no doubt will be sorted very quickly to your satisfaction - I hope it doesn't spoil the ownership experience going forwards!
LVMH too.
My Zenith went back 2 times after coming back from a full service. 1st with a scratched (new) crystal, then a chipped chrono hand.
It's back now - but the whole saga took over 6 months and the warranty was running from the 1st return date - which p!ssed me off - eventually after much 'put the manager on the line' discussions, I managed to get the warranty dated from my acceptance.
z
I agree and I hope so too...I think right now I'm just a bit miffed by the whole episode especially after paying a not so insignificant amount of money to repair and refurbish the watch (I paid for it as a gift for my Dad). I'll probably still end up buying a Portofino for myself at some point in the future!
After reading Downers Recent thread I thought 'Ahh it's just a one off it will never happen to me'. Little did I know...
Sadly it's not rare to have a fiasco when dealing with watch brands under the Richemont parent company....it's about time they sorted out their service departments- they appear happy to spend millions on advertising but bugger all on competent after sales care. JLC, Panerai, IWC- all rubbish servicing dept imho
That's frustrating. I've had a similar issue with a Seiko (yes really).
Gray
Now THAT I don't believe
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Indeed, I've had really positive experiences with a number of brands, but (thankfully fewer) frustrating experiences with the same ones (including Rolex, Omega, IWC, Sinn.... - none of them is perfect!
Or slowly, after several attempts:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...ighlight=wrong
Does anyone know why such fiasco keep happening all the times ?
Is this something to do with an individual watchmaker’s capability ? Surely, they must be trained to the company’s standard. They must have the correct equipment, parts and tools to carry out the task. I bet they must have the standard procedure to follow during the intervention. So, where is QC ?
Do you think there’s similar failure rate if you send the watch to the service centre in France, Swiss , USA or Japan ?
Just judging by what others have said Richemont clearly have some issues with their service centres...I guess only IWC themselves would be able to answer those questions...
Interestingly though when I took the watch in to DMR the first time they did actually give me the option to either send the watch to Schaffhausen or their UK service centre in London...There is a price difference of course...I asked them what the difference in terms of quality of service is and they said there is none. They both service the watch to the same standard. so I opted to send it to London as it was the cheaper option...Perhaps that was the wrong decision...Not that I am blaming DMR in the slightest...They have been quite professional throughout and were incredibly apologetic about the fact that I had to bring the watch back in so soon after I received it. It's not their fault of course but its nice to know they care to a some extent...
Last edited by Watchfreek; 23rd June 2015 at 14:42.
Almost as long as it takes to service a Panerai!
Gently shaking the watch is not the way to wind it. It is no surprise it is not keeping time.
Ha. Yeah.
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...George-Villain
What's this all about then?
Perhaps shaking was the wrong word to use. I meant something along the lines of holding the watch dial up and horizontally in the palm of my hand and waving it from side to side and in circles around 50 times. What would you recommend? Also how would you explain it stopping on the wrist? By the time I got it to the AD the movement had frozen entirely and no amount of 'waving', 'shaking', 'circular motions' or even pulling out the crown and winding it that way would get it moving again...
Seriously?
Just because it's an automatic doesn't mean the manual winding method has somehow been removed.
Pull crown to position 1, wind by rotating crown away from yourself (clockwise if looking at the crown square on) for 50 turns.
Most of us, I presume, will turn the crown forwards, then backwards, and so on, rather than letting go of the crown each turn.
I agree and am aware of the winding method using the crown. I tried it when the watch was in my possession after I took it back off my Dad but the watch was still losing time and stopping on the wrist even after 50 odd turns. The AD tried it as well by which time the movement had completely frozen.
Meant to comment on this earlier.
"George", do us all a favour, and find another forum to be a dick with its users. But before doing so, reimburse Toby for his expenses in coming across, at the very least – you should be paying for his time being wasted too.
Are you for real? Kindly tell us when and how you are going to reimburse tobywatches for wasted time and expenses. I would reasonably expect 100 pounds per hour of wasted time plus transport costs and meals. If not, then I don't see a future for you here.
Last edited by GrandS; 24th June 2015 at 05:17.
What's worrying about this is the fact that the ETA movement is very straightforward to service and any half-decent repairer would be able to do it properly and get it right. The only tricky aspect is the reverser in the auto-winding; opinions vary as to how this should be lubricated but it is very prone to sticking if over-oiled.
As I`ve said before, the problem with IWC (and other brands who won`t supply parts) is the brand-specific items such as hands and crowns.
Having to pay high prices for a straightforward job is bad enough, but finding it's got problems is annoying to say the least.
What the OP hasn`t made clear is whether the watch will hand-wind efficiently with a correct power reserve; if it does, that points towards the auto-winding reverser as the culprit. That's a test worth doing to clarify things.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 24th June 2015 at 10:22.
Don`t understand the logic in this comment, not very helpful for the OP: Agreed, gently shaking the watch won`t wind it significantly, but provided it does enough to get the watch running it should auto-wind itself assuming the wearer wears it immediately and moves sufficiently to activate the rotor.
Try it on a watch that's in good health.....trust me it works. OK, to get the watch fully wound would require around 4-5 hrs of moderate activity (not sitting in a chair watching TV) but a healthy watch that's put on in a morning with virtually no winding should fully wind itself over the course of an 'average' day for most people.
Owners of automatic watches would do themselves a big favour by taking the trouble to learn and understand how they work; there's plenty of info on the 'web to explain this. An owner can do a fair amount of troubleshooting themselves.
Paul
Hi Paul...Thanks for your input...When I took the watch back off my Dad I tried winding the watch by waving it dial up in the palm of my hand in a circular motion around 50 times...I would have thought this would be more than enough to wind it to a reasonable level...I then wore the watch and checked the time regularly to ensure it was working...I work in an office environment but I do get up and walk around regularly...around 2 or 3 hours later the watch had stopped on my wrist.
I then tried to wind it manually using the crown...Again 50 turns in a clockwise direction. Same thing. the watch would run then stop after a few hours on my wrist...
By the time I got it to DMR no amount of waving, circular motions or winding the watch using the crown would get it to work...
For the record I very rarely wind my automatic watches manually using the crown...If they have stopped I usually just give them a quick wave in circular motions (Maybe 10 or 15 times) to get the watch ticking, set the time and date and wear them...Then as you said the watches will just wind themselves throughout the day...
I have no evidence for this, but I sometimes wonder if one factor in such cases is that watches that are supposedly being "sent back to (e.g.) IWC" are in fact being dealt with locally.
I have often thought the same thing...My wife gave me a Raymond Weil Tango watch for my 30th birthday...She knows nothing about watches and bought it purely because she thought I might like the design...It's just a quartz but as it turns out it is quite a solidly built watch...the bracelet in particular is quite impressive. Anyway time came to get the battery changed. As the watch has some sentimental value I decided to take it to Goldsmiths where the watch was purchased from rather than the butchers at Timpsons (I have had bad experiences). They said it had to be sent back to Raymond Weil. I was a bit confused by this but they said the watch would come back looking like new and with warranty...Fair enough...Time came to collect the watch and I was expecting it to come in a nice RW box or a pouch at least...Instead they gave it to me wrapped in bubble wrap...I doubt RW would send a watch back to a customer like this...
The IWC at least came back in a nice branded black leather box...
Indeed,
When I "wave" my Oriënt OS300 in the right way, you can see the powerreserve building up, never had a problem and it works fine.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I don't know. Why bubble-wrap it if it hadn't been posted? I'd have thought most stores would make a point of emphasising that they could sort/service something in-store, if they could. (The cynic in me suspects that if it was sent in a nice RW pouch etc, someone in the store kept the nice RW pouch...)
I`m puzzled with this one. If the watch won`t hand-wind that suggests the mainspring's the problem, but normal practice on a 2892 is to fit a new spring and barrel assembly because they're cheap; with them being pre-assembled and lubricated it's quicker and it should ensure that the lubrication/assembly is a correct. If the watch had a problem elsewhere I`d expect it to not run at all, or run intermittently.
Ideally, it needs putting on a timegrapher to see what it's doing. Why it's come back from service like this is beyond me.
I guess that the folks doing the work will be forced to rush and work through several watches/day, but that's no excuse.
Paul
I was thinking the same thing!
The rotor doesn't really "wind" the watch but stops a WOUND spring from unwinding.
Unless IWC tell me other wise?
I wonder how all this is affecting IWC sales. Do people still buy the things?
??????????
If the rotor doesn`t wind the watch, what does......the tooth fairy?
What stops a wound spring from unwinding?............the pallet fork!
Paul
I don't claim to be an expert on watches..... maybe there is abetter way of putting it.
Does anyone know of a instruction manual for a automatic watch that says "gently shake the watch to wind" ??
Please read my earlier post...I'll quote it here for your convenience...I also said in numerous other posts including this one that I tried winding the watch using the crown...
As far as I know simply making the rotor (oscillating disc or half disc) spin does not wind an automatic watch. If a watch was would fully then the disc spinning prevents the watch losing power reserve, for lack of a better term. An example would be if an auto watch had ran out of power reserve and had stopped, simply picking it up and shaking it or waving it about in a figure of eight for an inordinate length of time would not be an alternative to actually winding the crown. Once left alone, off the wrist the watch would very quickly stop again. Also during the period before it stopped the time keeping would have the potential to be all over the place due to the very low power reserve in the watch.
Again, I am no expert and stand to be corrected but it cracks me up when owners of automatic watches think a simple shake to get it running again is the proper method of operation.
- - - Updated - - -
Cool mate.
It's simple.
The watch stops when the mainspring's run down to a point where it isn`t producing enough torque to overcome the friction in the movement. All things being equal, the mainspring only requires a small amount of extra tension to start the watch running again (albeit sluggishly) and this can be provided by moving the watch too and fro several times. All it takes is one 'click' on the click stop to get the watch working. Picking the watch up, giving it a few shakes, putting on the wrist and proceeding to wear it is fine; provided the wearer is reasonably active the watch will continue to run and achieve full wind over a few hours. The rate will be way out for the first few minutes until the amplitude reaches a reasonable level when the spring has gained sufficient tension, but the wearer won`t notice a problem.
Seiko 7S26 movements don`t have provision for hand-winding. so the 'shake and go' procedure is the only option. That's what I did with mine today; I wore a freshly serviced vintage Omega all afternoon to check the timing before I send it out, then decided to work on the car, so off with the Omega and on with my Seiko beater....a couple of shakes then good to go. Just put it on the timegrapher and the amplitude's 255°. Probably not far off fully wound.
Making the rotor spin will cause the watch to wind provided the gearing in the autowind mechanism is functioning correctly. Some watches use a reverser wheel (or 2) which enables the rotor to transmit rotation in either direction into positive motion to turn the ratchet wheel and hence tension the spring. If the reverser sticks the rotor will spin but the watch won`t wind up. When the mainspring is fully wound it slips inside the barrel as the rotor continues to transmit power to it, thus acting like a clutch. The rotor is ALWAYS driving the barrel arbor and hence tightening the spring, but the spring can slip around the inside of the barrel when it reaches a certain state of tension. Basically, it's wound around the arbor so the remaining coils are imparting less pressure on the barrel wall. The braking action (friction) is lost and the spring slips.
Hope that clarifies this point.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 24th June 2015 at 22:47.
Seriously? I never hand wind any of my autos and they all run with the reserve they are supposed to, or near as damn it.
Thank you Paul for your continued and insightful input. I learnt a lot from that post! Also put my mind at rest that giving the watch a few 'shakes' 'waves' or 'circular motions' (choose your terms folks) and then wearing the watch is OK as long as there is a reasonable amount of further movement in your wrist to sufficiently wind the watch.
Update from DMR this afternoon:
Hi Kapish,
Hope you are well and had a nice weekend.
I have spoken to IWC this morning and your watch is due back to us Wednesday/Thursday.
The Master Watchmaker has advised that the hands were loose, this caused the second hand to touch the minute hand and this then created a blockage causing the watch to stop. This has now been corrected and your watch is just in the very final stages of quality control.
I will let you know as soon as your watch is back and ready for collection and apologies again for the inconvenience caused.
Speak soon.
Kind Regards,
Cerian
I asked my Dad if he had caused a jolt to the watch which might have caused this and he said no...It certainly did not receive any sort of knock in my possession. There were no marks or scratches on the watch (Verified by DMR when I gave it back to them) to indicate it had received any sort of heavy knock to dislodge the hands in this way...
Oh well. As long as the watch comes back working that's all that matters I suppose. At least they sorted it without any argument.
For the record I still like IWC and want to buy a nice stainless steel Portofino in the Future!
I doubt it was any fault on your part, I have heard several woes from IWC servicing. Now of course, the bad experiences are shouted loudest, but even that considered it is an above average occurrence.
Another Update:
Picked up the watch from DMR on Thursday the 23rd of July and gave it to my Dad the same evening.
I just spoke to him and timekeeping is fine (He isn't one to notice + or - a few seconds here or there). No issues with the hands sticking or the watch stopping at all. Of course we will continue to monitor the performance of the watch over the next few weeks. IWC accepted there was an issue with the watch and resolved it so have to give them some Kudos for that I guess.
How and why the watch was able to get through the final QC with loose hands and the fact that the watch was stopping consistently because of said issue is still a mystery and one I fear I will never really get an answer to.
My Dad was very happy to get his watch back in full working order. That's what matters I suppose. I'm still looking to get a SS Portofino for myself at some point! Really lovely watches!
Thanks for reading.
I think you are bang on with your comment!
I knew it was not a good day for JLC when the Richemont beancounters got their hands on the company and it seems it has turned out as I thought it would.
Glad it seems to have been resolved.
The horological equivalent of a mechanic failing to put the wheel nuts back in your car properly. Shambles.
Glad that the watch is now back and working ok. Coincidently my Portofino is also being serviced right now. I dropped it off at the new bond street boutique a few weeks ago and am impatiently waiting its return. One thing this thread has taught me is to inspect the watch very carefully after picking it up and also to keep a tab on its timekeeping for a couple of days. Don't want any loose hands!
Glad it appears to have been sorted satisfactorily, in the end.
It's just a matter of time...
I do hope this isn't related to a Richemont servicing issue:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40705621
Totally correct in all respects! It did NOT used to be like this before Richemont swept all of these watch manufacturing companies up!
He doesn't appear to fit the typical IWC demographic, if there is one (unless he's stashed his watches in the woods).
edit - judging by his downcast visage I'm guessing he's one of those poor souls who bought a Rolex believing it would instantly make him more attractive.
Last edited by Stanford; 24th July 2017 at 18:54.
you live and learn!
I aways thought Dobby was a CGI character?
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