Reply With QuoteIt Doesn't seem to be NOS, it says it's basically a rep, built with service parts? or not a rep then? but anyway, where did the parts come from?
Its not genuine in any case
My travels have brought me to Singapore and the local equivalent of Gumtree has brought up this NOS Omega Seamaster 300.
Here
It works out to be about £2100. What are your thoughts on it?
Many thanks!
Last edited by Elemenopea; 18th May 2015 at 09:55. Reason: fixed link
It Doesn't seem to be NOS, it says it's basically a rep, built with service parts? or not a rep then? but anyway, where did the parts come from?
Its not genuine in any case
The hands don't match the markers but I think this is fairly common.
Paul Walker on here made one for me and had to relume the hands to match.
The price is ok but not great. Depends how much you want one as you could probably get a used genuine one cheaper than that on the second hand market.
This watch is not NOS.
Back in the days Omega used tritium as you probably know however these parts are all new and used luminova and put on a vintage (?) case. The price is outrageous since these can be bought for approximately €1500 in the Netherlands nowadays..
These watches are called Wathco SM300's you can dive deeper into them and will find much better prices examples..
Watchco sold up on these last year if I remember due to Omega stopping the distribution of parts.Originally Posted by Emilio
They will be harder to get hold of now I feel.
Are those WatchCo rebuilds as much as around £2000 nowadays!? I sold mine about 18 months ago for £1000... :)
Nice watches anyway, even if I prefer the original ones.
It looks genuine, but as someone else said, it's not NOS as such. Omega carries all the spares for the SM300, as the ad states, and some companies (WatchCo for one) and individuals would buy all the parts needed to then build a complete SM300. The movements can be nabbed from an old 60s/70s Constellation and such like, serviced and fitted in the SM300 case. I've seen loads of examples where the hands lume doesn't match the dial. I guess they were different batches made at different times?
I have a used one which cost a fair bit less than this and came with lots of genuine Omega paperwork, which I suspect this one doesn't have. The problem is what if it hasn't been put together very well or the movement hasn't been serviced properly? It's a bit of gamble at that price. However, if it is the genuine Omega mesh bracelet then that's worth £300 on it's own. I've got mine on a period tropik-style rubber.
These SM300s will become rarer and rarer so if you get a good one, it could be a reasonable investment, or at least you'll lose very little on it. They're a great fit though and I love the styling.
Had to search for a few hours but I was almost sure that I had seen it before somewhere:
http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/99...shorloge-staal
Sold for €1500,--
It looks almost like the identical one. Not sure if it is the same.
Personally I don't think the watchco's will rise in value since these are just franken watches.. I have spoken to many serious collectors and not one would even think about buying a watchco SM300.
Last edited by Emilio; 18th May 2015 at 11:46.
Not the same one for sure, the colour of the date wheel varies!
The prices will rise. Especially the Watchco made watches. The parts are no so accessible, so harder to make one up now. How much does an official rerelease of an old Omega cost new these days?
Essentially you you got a new Omega watch, with a fully reworked movement - using parts to replace on the 60's / 70's models? What's not to love? If Rolex or any other big brand made it possible for you to go out and make your own 5512/5513/1665/1655, simply by finding a nice movement, people would be falling over themselves to do it - but for some reason (probably because they were cheaper to do), a lot of people stuck their noses up - but most didn't.
Serious collectors? Those with enough cash to track down the very best originally 60's 70's watches might not be interested - but for those of us that love the looks, and the fact they meet water proof standards and can be used as an everyday watch, it's probably enough.
They provide the ability to have a modern made vintage - something must have resonated far within Omega, as they they started doing it themselves, with rerelease update models!
Ive had quite a few, and they are fantastic watches. They used to be cheaper, because the Aussie $ was so much stronger and parts were available - now neither is the case - so the watches would be around 35% more expensive anyway, even if you could get all the parts.
I still have a left handed crown SHOM 200m model, which I absolutely love - and can't see a modern watch that competes with it in the current Omega line up.
It's just a matter of time...
Hard to tell - once they stop making them prices may well rise.
They do present an interesting prospect, a genuine Omega movement, case and parts but not a factory watch. But able to be used daily as a modern watch so a nice addition to a vintage collection! I had a WatchCo SHOM and parted with it very cheaply, I'd quite like it back now although perhaps the SM300s look a little more wearable
I'm sure a serious collector, whatever one of those is, wouldn't buy one as a genuine SM300 but as a daily wearer with the looks and quality but proper water resistance, I think they are a fun buy. £2k is not so much 'fun' though.
The term 'collector' covers a wide range of individuals; I`m a collector and I`d be happy to own one of these......so maybe that means I`m not a serious collector? I guess the really serious collectors don`t like 'em!
These watches have a different appeal, they're relatively affordable and very 'wearable'. I`ve built two and I was delighted with them......might wish I`d kept one if the prices go up!
Seriously, a nice original Seamaster 300 appeals to a different buyer than a NOS/Watchco and it's not really a fair comparison.
As for the OP's example, I think the price is a bit heavy. I`d need to be convinced it was built from genuine Omega case parts (albeit recent replacements) and I`d want some assurance that the movement had been properly rebuilt. I'd also look very carefully to be sure it had been assembled properly. Rebuilding these movements isn`t cheap if it's done correctly, and many of the donor movements are in poor condition.
As stated earlier, hands and dial often don`t match on the recent builds, and if they don`t match they never look right. Nice reluming job on the hands for some lucky lad to get them matching.....been there, done that, it's a pain in arse!
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 18th May 2015 at 14:43.
All good points. most of mine in the past were from Watcho, or built by STS - so I have been very happy that they were good for daily wear and water resistant.
They can be great watches and provide something just a little bit different. As said above £2k might be more than just a fun purchase, but you get something usable from a great brand - that said, I paid a fair bit less for my Ceramic SMP and wear it a lot and it's still under Omega's Co-Axial warranty - so there is lot of choice out there for the money. I'd even be tempted to put a little more towards it and buy a loose 14060 Rolex Submariner - which to me would do the same job- but some want something a little more vintage and the SM300 is a bit of a bargain compared to a similar condition 5513.
It's just a matter of time...
Cousins have most of the parts and still available on eBay too..... They cost up around £1600 in parts £2000 on eBay made already
Second hand can be had for less but watch out for fake service parts.....
So the benefit of this watch (i.e. not NOS but new build) is that it is essentially a new watch in vintage style?
It means that this will stand up to daily wear then right?
I really appreciate all your replies so far everyone!
IMHO you will get a "vintage" watch you can dive with and it tell the time in the dark.
Here is my one.
http://www.watchwallpapers.com/smrebe.htm
It may be possible to source the parts cheaper; Cousins are charging more for Omega stuff than others thesedays. However, other suppliers would have to order the parts from Omega and that could be a bit hit and miss.....anyone building a watch needs ALL the bits (including the case clamps, date wheel and a new stem) and it's no good getting some bits and finding you can't get the others.
Expect to pay £100 for a reasonable 565 movement, then a further £160 in parts to get it running right (new spring barrel, spring, reverser, rotor bearing) PLUS labour to sort it all out......unless you're able to do it all yourself.
If I really wanted one of these, I wouldn`t use the 1171 bracelet. The SMP 2254.50 bracelet (1610/930) almost fits and with some modifications to the end pieces it could be made to fit correctly. The small tangs on the back of the end pieces aren't in the right place to stop the ends rotating too far, but I think this could be altered by micro-welding. Only drawback is the cost; you could get a new SMPc in some parts of the world for the same price.
Paul
That is exactly right. It has a period movement however so doesn't have the most modern antimagnetic properies, shockproofing and come with 30-40 years of wear but should (you hope) be serviced and regulated well.
I sourced mine just for that - to have an everyday watch that I could enjoy and wear and be vintage inside and in looks... no way could I afford the factory ones that although sport an amazing patina, are getting silly prices... (ok it was my 40th birthday too and I just had to go for the black date wheel)
I'm starting to see made up speedmasters too now - but for prices of decent used ones...
Last edited by Xantiagib; 19th May 2015 at 13:45.
I wouldn't call it a Franken watch. Is exactly what it is called a Watchco SM 300m. Most collectors I know would gladly wear one as it is made from genuine parts.
+1.....franken watch is inappropriate.I wouldn't call it a Franken watch. Is exactly what it is called a Watchco SM 300m. Most collectors I know would gladly wear one as it is made from genuine parts.
paul
I also agreed with the new school of thought. I would love a watch made from vintage parts with a knowledge and guarantee associated with buying a new watch. Purely because I intend to wear it and not treat it as a museum piece. Different schools of thought I guess.
If only I had enough money for a SHOM.
I've got one of these too, and it's a lovely old thing. Mine has service papers from Archer Watch in Canada, so I'm confident of its function and integrity. Plus the black date wheel looks terrific.
If one of these "serious collectors" stopped me in the street and pressed me on it, I wouldn't attempt to claim that it was a 100% authentic Omega, but for all practical purposes and to the non-anorak population, it basically is. But it seems we need a term that's less pejorative than "frankenwatch" to describe watches like this. It's not an "homage" either, since none of the parts are copies; they really all are authentic Omega parts.
Perhaps I will explain, if asked, that this watch was transported to our world from a parallel universe where Omega kept the SM300 in production for several additional decades, just as Rolex did with the 5513. After all, they are very comparable watches. In fact, I think I might like to live in that universe!
indeed it does not have a label as such as not a hommage, nor is it a replica... and definately not a franken (the latter being made up from parts of different models mostly same manufacterer)
so its more of a reproduction, a kitcar version so to speak.
I like that. Other useful terms might include "re-creation" or "unofficial reissue".
Not really a kitcar version - as I don't know any kit cars made by the car brand they cars resemble. It is a completely authentic watch made from mostly new and (I believe with the exception of the movements) available spare/replacement parts.
It's just a matter of time...
I used to have a couple of those.
There’s no doubt about it, they are nice to look at and make a great practical watch with an excellent movement. However, I was never able to come to view them as complete watches. In other words, the fact that they were not made by Omega, they had never left the Omega factory as complete watches, began to reduce their value and their appeal to me.
So they got flipped.
It's an interesting discussion, what are these WatchCo-kinda watches? To me, they're not Omega's for sure. They have to be put together by Omega to be just that. Are they franken? The fact that all parts are original Omega doesn't really matter. On another forum, someone recently showed a great looking vintage Speedy that comprised of:
105.012 Case + matching hands
105.003 Dial.
145.012 Caseback.
145.022 Bezel (with authentic misprint)
321 caliber
All original Omega, all 100% Speedmaster, some of them quite rare actually. But nobody would argue the fact that this is as franken as it gets.
I really shouldn’t have done that. £2300:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OMEGA-1970...item1e9e9f3707
I'd respectfully disagree - the parts are all made for this specific model - the example you give above is about mixing and matching, which is clearly not the same. If you had an original version of this watch and wanted to replace any parts they would have been the same parts used which these watches are made from.
It's just a matter of time...
I am sorry but this is comparing apples and oranges.
Parts from different models mixed and matched make a Franken watch but this example is different.
Wouldn't call it original but not Franken either.
Not Frank watches, maybe zombie watches. They've all the right parts to be a genuine Omega, but they're not.
??
I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. They are all genuine Omega parts, so they are. Did that sound a bit Irish? I hope so :)
Zombie watches is fine with me lol
But it's a bit like trying to replace a few bits on your old Rolex - you won't get a high hat crystal from them, and you won't get a nice fat font bezel insert, and you won't get an original crown, and certain internal movement parts have been upgraded - but if you change all these things - you still have a genuine Rolex watch. Also, if I got a replacement case, and a replacement movement, and added all the bits from the parts bin - it would be genuine - just because it wasn't sold through an AD does not make it any less so.
Last edited by Omegamanic; 29th May 2015 at 00:09.
It's just a matter of time...
Yeah but doesn't being put together by the manufacturer by its qualified staff and the testing that the manufacturer performs play a factor in it being genuine too?
I don't collect watches, I wear them. I bought the parts 3 years ago and sent them off to Archer in Canada for service and assembly. The parts are all genuine and that is all that matters to me. I don't get caught up in whether someone thinks it is a franken or not, I simply don't care because I love the watch. It keeps great time, is comfortable and looks great.
I had two of these made up by STS and sold to forum members a while back, they are great watches and part of the fun for me was the involvement in getting the parts together and sourcing the donor watches for movements. I am sure these will go up in price (the cases already have and the non-date dials are very difficult to find). I still have one of each dials and a pair of crystals for sale in SC, also a handset from watchco not in the listing. These were mine http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...M300-new-Build http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...New-Build-SOLD
Last edited by Crispin; 29th May 2015 at 05:40.
Of course these 2 cases are not at all comparable. But the point I was trying to make is that dismissing a watch from being a franken solely “because all parts are original Omega” (an argument often used with regard to these watches) doesn’t make sense. I was using the Speedy franken example just to emphasize that.
For me personally, them not being built by Omega just dismisses it from being an Omega. But that’s just IMHO of course.
I like the 'Zombie' reference.... 'replicant' may be more appropriate ... just checked cousins today on the case: £1050 - it was £845 not long ago !
Not really - as a good watchmaker takes watches apart piece by piece and puts them back together every day - does that make your serviced watch not genuine because it wasn't put together by Omega?
- - - Updated - - -
Not sure I like anything with replica** in the name for genuine manufacturer parts.
It's just a matter of time...
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