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Thread: Grand Seiko quartz vs Citizen chronomaster

  1. #1
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    Grand Seiko quartz vs Citizen chronomaster

    Hello!

    I have posted this on Swedish watch fora but thought you guys might appreciate the pics and some of my thoughts.
    I have owned two GS quartz and have my second chronomaster en route.

    Both watches below are HEQ, (or perhaps HAQ), that means high end quartz (or high accuracy quartz). I am not sure what it takes to call a quartz caliber high end. Price only? Does it has to be thermo compensated?

    Citizen Chronomaster (a.k.a The Citizen)
    Ref#CTQ57-0953
    Diameter: 37-38 mm. (depending on where you read, feels like 38)
    Material: Titanium with Citizens Duratect-treatment.

    Grand Seiko
    Ref# SBGX059g
    Diameter: 37mm
    Material: Steele



    Imo a nice pair to compare, in Japan they cost about the same. In Europe the GS is pricier and the chronomaster is only sold in Japan. I think.







    Both dials are clean and or strict. Imo is the Citizen dial slightly better executed (albeit with an uglier color)
    Notice the Citizen dial has applied second markers, and only two lines of text. The word chronomaster is written with a discreete colour and is never in your face so to speak (please excuse my lack of correct analogy use)

    The seiko dial is white, very nice. The Citizen dial varies from pretty white to faint urine yellow. Also pretty nice.


    Both watches has excellent AR-treatment. Important to me.

    The Citizen has lume, good feature. It is surprisingly good (for a dressier watch) . The lume is nice applied, no blotches and sharp edges.
    The GS has latest generation hands with both brushed and polished surfaces. Good in low light and fun when light bounces. Pointless in darkness.








    In theory Citizen wins the caliber-fight. Better timing specs (+- 5 spy vs 10 spy) . It also has a perpetual calendar and a possibility to move hour hands in increments of one hour without stopping the second hand. Nifty when traveling.

    Bracelets and clasps:

    Both class are nice, quite good for watches in this price range

    Seiko has a nice but perhaps slightly boring bracelet, and it sort of looks like another famous bracelet. Good to have screws in links.

    The Citizen bracelet is imo not very good looking, but you can tell they have put a lot of work in it. Both polished and brushed part. It is slightly more "smooth", and more comfortable. Since it is made of titanium it is also very light. That combined makes it a very very comfortable bracelet.
    If you need some weight on the wrist to feel at ease with your expensive watch titanium is of course a bad choice.
    Big drawback (for me) with pin and collar system for bracelet sizing.






    Citizen at viewers left:




    The GS with much better finish, nicer polish and more advanced case shape. Every GS I have had has had mirror like polishing.
    The Citizen feels a bit thinner.

    The back sides are pretty much the same.
    GS with lion medallion, my watch here with blue gluey thingy which I never pulled of.

    The Citizen with their classic eagle.










    Both watches on my 18,5 cm wrist.








    Both watches are rated 100 meters.

    Verdict:
    I think the chronomaster is a better watch.
    Perpetual calendar, independent hour hand, lume and slightly better accuracy takes it home for me.
    If titanium is a big nono you can buy a steel version (no titanium GS quartz currently AFAIK) .

    The seiko is nicer looking and better finished. Perhaps a better choice if you want a fancy dress type watch when going to posh parties where garishness like lume is super frowned upon.

    Thanks for looking!

  2. #2
    Excellent post and really hard to choose one.
    Slightly non plussed by your description of Citizen dial color as Urine yellow!😄

  3. #3
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    Great write up - thanks!

    They both look excellent - I prefer the GS

  4. #4
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Great review thanks, I also had a smile at urine yellow.....
    Cheers..
    Jase

  5. #5
    Master
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    Yes GS do have 9F Quartz in titanium:http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/gs/coll...hp?pid=SBGX069

    On paper the Citizen is the clear winner so why do I prefer the GS? If I needed an excuse I'd try to convince myself that maybe it will last longer due the simpler movement, but to be honest it's just because I just prefer the brand and the looks.

  6. #6
    Very nice review and comparison. Thanks for posting.

    The look of the watches are very similar, elegant and restrained.

    I would take the Citizen every day though. Better movement and made of better, more expensive material, Duratect Titanium.


    The Seiko does have the mirror polished Zaratsu finishing in its favour but it is not enough to swing things in its favour.




    Mitch

  7. #7
    I have always thought the Citizen the better watch with its more practical specs and wondered why it never got the respect the GS has.

    Nice review.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    Yes GS do have 9F Quartz in titanium:http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/gs/coll...hp?pid=SBGX069
    Thanks. I thought that one was discontinued. And have never seen one in Swedish shops.
    Glad I am wrong. That color scheme on the dial makes me not want to have one though.

  9. #9
    Master WatchIng's Avatar
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    Both super! I prefer GS, but I wish they wouldn't repeat themselves so on the face - I mean, do we really need to know it is a Seiko, a GS and a Grand Seiko?

  10. #10
    Thanks for posting BigSwede. I have always preferred the styling of the Chronomaster despite having chosen GS Quartz for myself. The rounded case sides, improved depth provided by the generous hour indicies and altogether more pleasing hands, never mind the added functionality of lume and the organic flowing "Chronomaster" namestyle. By comparison, the GS appears sterile and restrained.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for this, Big, great work. I have a question. Does the Duratect titanium look as good as the GS´s stainless steel?

    As new the Citizen's movement is clearly better than Seiko´s. I do however suspect that the added complexity will have an impact on reliability. I don´t think you mentioned this but the GS quartz has a sealed movement that Seiko expects will last at least 50 years without any maintenance. I doubt that Citizen can make a similar claim. I wonder if the Citizen will maintain it´s plus minus 5 second a year timekeeping 20 years from now. I suspect that Seiko has kept their movement as simple as possible in the interest of reliability.

    These are both fabulous watches. I chose GS quartz due to lower price, I expected durability to be better and I think stainless steel looks better than titanium. The Citizen is however an outstanding watch and I would love to have one.




    Last edited by GrandS; 6th May 2015 at 21:36.

  12. #12
    Great comparison review, I had to smile at urine yellow as well. Thanks for posting.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandS View Post
    Thanks for this, Big, great work. I have a question. Does the Duratect titanium look as good as the GS´s stainless steel?

    As new the Citizen's movement is clearly better than Seiko´s. I do however suspect that the added complexity will have an impact on reliability. I don´t think you mentioned this but the GS quartz has a sealed movement that Seiko expects will last at least 50 years without any maintenance. I doubt that Citizen can make a similar claim. I wonder if the Citizen will maintain it´s plus minus 5 second a year timekeeping 20 years from now. I suspect that Seiko has kept their movement as simple as possible in the interest of reliability.

    These are both fabulous watches. I chose GS quartz due to lower price, I expected durability to be better and I think stainless steel looks better than titanium. The Citizen is however an outstanding watch and I would love to have one.




    Nice looking watch you have there.

    I have not read anything regarding problems with the Citizen and I suppose another thing in their corner is the extended warranty that I think they honour here in the UK.

    Aside from the Citizen they do have some pretty good higher end JDM Eco drive watches.

  14. #14
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    An excellent comparo, thank you. I think I'm swayed towards the GS
    I may be biased tho' with my p!$$ dialled option.
    Last edited by reggie747; 6th May 2015 at 23:35.

  15. #15
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    Great write up John and I've you to thank for my lovely white dialed GS Quartz.

    I've often thought of adding a Chronomaster but couldn't decide which model to go for and whether to go steel or titanium. Instead I've ended up with a black and white version of the same watch and whether I need both in the collection remains to be seen.




    Cheers
    Neil
    Last edited by jneds; 6th May 2015 at 23:03.

  16. #16
    For those unfamiliar with "The Citizen" range, it's worth noting that a later generation of solar charged quartz and automatic mechanicals are also available.
    Alas none of these appear to be forum darlings here.

  17. #17
    Grand Master dkpw's Avatar
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    Many thanks BigSwede for an excellent post and review. If money were no object I'd have both. If I had to have one, I'd plump for the Seiko on grounds of appearance and finish, although acknowledging the Citizen is more technically advanced and interesting. Sadly both fall just short of the too small line for me - but I appreciate both watches' many qualities.

    "tack så mycket"

    David

  18. #18
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    Thanks for sharing, great post and comparisons their I think I'd be leaning more towards the seiko myself but both are lovely

  19. #19
    Love the champaign dial.

    I don't particularly like either watch but if I had to chose (as a collector) it would be the GS. If you are aiming to use this watch everyday then the lume becomes more useful in which case the Citizen kind of wins.

  20. #20
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Thank you for a very intriguing comparison. I had not until now taken on board how similar the watches are. Interestingly, the bracelet on that Citizen is very similar indeed to the bracelets on some GSs, e.g. the SBGE001.

    I had previously thought that I'd want at some stage to buy a GS quartz and a Chronomaster/The Citizen but probably the GS first. However, I think I'd rather obtain a Citizen first.

    I know some of the The Citizen range (I think) have a power reserve on the dial. If there is a blue dial version with power reserve, that would be the one for me. If not, then white/cream/urine yellow(!) with power reserve would do for me.

  21. #21
    Master
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    Unless I'm wrong, the PR equipped The Citizens are Eco-Drive based, not the standard battery like the ones John has shown.
    There is/was a blue dial Chronomaster – http://www.relojes-especiales.com/fo...master-190675/

    http://uhrforum.de/the-citizen-aq1020-51e-t132658
    http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?t=125471

  22. #22
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ S View Post
    Unless I'm wrong, the PR equipped The Citizens are Eco-Drive based, not the standard battery like the ones John has shown.
    There is/was a blue dial Chronomaster – http://www.relojes-especiales.com/fo...master-190675/

    http://uhrforum.de/the-citizen-aq1020-51e-t132658
    http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?t=125471
    Thanks. I don't mind an Eco-Drive model if it still has the perpetual calendar (which it does).

    Although I mentioned blue dial, the Eco-Drive black dial AQ1020-51E looks stunning.

  23. #23
    Craftsman
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    The GS jumps out at you when you first look at it but gradually the Citizen overtakes with its better movement, features (like perpetual calendar, etc) and durability.

  24. #24
    Just excellent.

  25. #25
    Thanks for the write up - an interesting comparison. I've tried the GS, would like to try the Citizen. And the independent hour hand, along with the lume and WR100m, makes it an excellent choice for traveller's watch. (You're also not likely to get mugged for it!)

  26. #26
    personally I prefer no lum hands but the cream dial of the Citizen is better finished than the GS

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jneds View Post
    Great write up John and I've you to thank for my lovely white dialed GS Quartz.

    I've often thought of adding a Chronomaster but couldn't decide which model to go for and whether to go steel or titanium. Instead I've ended up with a black and white version of the same watch and whether I need both in the collection remains to be seen.


    Cheers
    Neil
    Thanks.
    Glad you like the watch. They are great!
    To clarify, the one you bought is not the one pictured in this review, your watch was unused.

    I am now ending up with both a steel and a titanium Chronomaster instead...

    Cheers

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkpw View Post
    Many thanks BigSwede for an excellent post and review. If money were no object I'd have both. If I had to have one, I'd plump for the Seiko on grounds of appearance and finish, although acknowledging the Citizen is more technically advanced and interesting. Sadly both fall just short of the too small line for me - but I appreciate both watches' many qualities.

    "tack så mycket"

    David
    Thanks mate.

    There are now Chronomasters that are 40 mm. With eco-drive and power reserve on the dial. Very nice watches also.



    Stolen pic obviously

  29. #29
    Function = Citizen

    Looks = GS

  30. #30
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    Thanks for taking the trouble, nice review.

    Both watches have Always been top of my quartz list, with the Eco-Drive version of the Chronomaster on top, the screw crown 200m version that is.

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  31. #31
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    Both watches have Always been top of my quartz list, with the Eco-Drive version of the Chronomaster on top, the screw crown 200m version that is.
    Do you know which model that is?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSwede View Post
    Thanks mate.

    There are now Chronomasters that are 40 mm. With eco-drive and power reserve on the dial. Very nice watches also.

    Stolen pic obviously
    The power reserve and the missing Chronomaster writing ruins it for me. Does the Duratect titanium really look as good as the GS stainless steel?

  33. #33
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Do you know which model that is?
    Hi Mark,

    Those are the Citizen AQ1030-57A and the AQ1030-57E.
    Set the time, screw the crown down, and never look back :)

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  34. #34
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    Hi Mark,

    Those are the Citizen AQ1030-57A and the AQ1030-57E.
    Set the time, screw the crown down, and never look back :)

    Daddel.
    Thanks. :-)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandS View Post
    The power reserve and the missing Chronomaster writing ruins it for me. Does the Duratect titanium really look as good as the GS stainless steel?
    The polished titanium on the Chronomaster looks very very good. Not as super duper polished as GS blade polishing but great look nevertheless.

    GS and (Omega) have some polished titanium watches (like snowflake and titanium planet ocean) and IMO the Citizen duratect doesn't fall behind these.

    The duratect is in my experience harder than Seikos Bright titanium since I haven´t been able to scratch it in a year byt my SDGZ013 has in one month attracted slight slight hairlines.

    Cheers

  36. #36
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    Many thanks for sharing all of this, very much appreciated.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSwede View Post
    Thanks. I thought that one was discontinued. And have never seen one in Swedish shops.
    Glad I am wrong. That color scheme on the dial makes me not want to have one though.
    It does have a sibling in Ti with a textured white dial:

    http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/gs/coll...hp?pid=SBGX067

    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    For those unfamiliar with "The Citizen" range, it's worth noting that a later generation of solar charged quartz and automatic mechanicals are also available. Alas none of these appear to be forum darlings here.
    Perhaps not, but I've had mine for nearly 2 years and it gets daily wear during the working week:



    Citizen has just released some models without the PR indicator and hopefully there will be some more variations in the near future.

  38. #38
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    It does have a sibling in Ti with a textured white dial:


    Citizen has just released some models without the PR indicator and hopefully there will be some more variations in the near future.
    Do you have the model numbers for them?

    Much appreciated.

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  39. #39
    Master
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    I liked the Citizen until I saw the wrist shot...

    Great write up.

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    It does have a sibling in Ti with a textured white dial:

    http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/gs/coll...hp?pid=SBGX067

    Oh lalala.

    Thank you very much, straight up on my "back of the head list".

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    Do you have the model numbers for them?

    Much appreciated.

    Daddel.
    They are the ones on this page with the orange tags marked 'New':

    http://citizen.jp/the-citizen/lineup/eco.html

  42. #42
    Master DB9yeti's Avatar
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    Is there a reason GS are so lauded and the Citizen is not? Both very attractive watches, but I have been reading about GS for much longer (mainly since joining here) and do see one in my future.

    The Citizen, at this sort of level, is not on the radar, which is a shame.

  43. #43
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DB9yeti View Post
    Is there a reason GS are so lauded and the Citizen is not? Both very attractive watches, but I have been reading about GS for much longer (mainly since joining here) and do see one in my future.

    The Citizen, at this sort of level, is not on the radar, which is a shame.
    Just seems to me to be a result of the normal tides of mindspace that come and go. I have only become aware of GS because of this forum. In turn, GS is being promoted outside of Japan and, as far as I know, The Citizen/Chronomaster is not. In time, I wouldn't surprised if The Citizen/Chronomaster catch up (but active promotion would help of course). The fact that quartz in general is being taken more seriously should help The Citizen/Chronomaster, I think.

  44. #44
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    They are the ones on this page with the orange tags marked 'New':

    http://citizen.jp/the-citizen/lineup/eco.html
    Thanks :)

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  45. #45
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    I like the Citizen better myself, but is the dial champagne or silver? It seems to be both colours in different photos.

    M.

  46. #46
    Master DB9yeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I have only become aware of GS because of this forum. In turn, GS is being promoted outside of Japan and, as far as I know, The Citizen/Chronomaster is not.
    I have not seen GS promoted anywhere other than on here as far as i can recall - not that I look for it. But that does mean my perception is based entirely on the overwhelming positivity of owners on here.

    Silly question I suppose but do Citizen make mechanical watches of this quality to rival the mechanicals of GS?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I like the Citizen better myself, but is the dial champagne or silver? It seems to be both colours in different photos.M.
    It can appear either, depending on the angle and intensity of light. GS models with champagne dials have the same quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by DB9yeti View Post
    Silly question I suppose but do Citizen make mechanical watches of this quality to rival the mechanicals of GS?
    Only two models:

    http://citizen.jp/the-citizen/lineup/automatic.html

    Whilst the cases and dials reportedly match GS quality the movement specs aren't quite up there. They are less expensive than GS autos though.

    I should add that they are significantly thinner than the GS, which is my one gripe with GS autos.
    Last edited by GlennO; 7th May 2015 at 10:59.

  48. #48
    Master DB9yeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    Only two models:

    http://citizen.jp/the-citizen/lineup/automatic.html

    Whilst the cases and dials reportedly match GS quality the movement specs aren't quite up there. They are less expensive than GS autos though.

    I should add that they are significantly thinner than the GS, which is my one gripe with GS autos.
    Thanks for that!

  49. #49
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DB9yeti View Post
    I have not seen GS promoted anywhere other than on here as far as i can recall - not that I look for it. But that does mean my perception is based entirely on the overwhelming positivity of owners on here.

    Silly question I suppose but do Citizen make mechanical watches of this quality to rival the mechanicals of GS?
    I have seen GS promoted with a very small amount of advertising in the specialist press, eg in Watchtime magazine:



    Then they have their English language website, which gives you at least some idea of selling points, and a brand story. It's not much, but it's just enough to help you see the brand (or sub-brand) in a good light. Citizen as far as I know haven't done even this over here for their higher end offerings, and superficial as it may seem, I have trouble imagining their logo on my wrist, in spite of the movement specs. The brand image just says absolutely nothing to me, and the aesthetics don't quite hit the spot either. I do wonder if Seiko will ever get round to making a 10F with a perpetual and adjustable hour hand... But perhaps not, seeing as the 8F was perpetual and they chose to to include this in the 9F, possibly opting for maintenance free longevity over functionality.

  50. #50
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    I do wonder if Seiko will ever get round to making a 10F with a perpetual and adjustable hour hand... But perhaps not, seeing as the 8F was perpetual and they chose to to include this in the 9F, possibly opting for maintenance free longevity over functionality.
    I do hope they bring perpetual calendar to the GS quartz line. It would surely benefit from it.

    I can't understand why Seiko discontinued the 8F/4F perpetual calendar line without properly replacing it at the medium end or higher end of their product range. It's not as if Seiko are ashamed of quartz as some manufacturers seem to be. They still have lower end quartz perpetual calendars and (if I remember correctly) Kinetic perpetual calendars. These include new (I think) quartz movements. E.g. The 7T86 movement, a chrono, alarm, perpetual calendar movement, put into some rather nice-looking watches.

    But perhaps a high end quartz perpetual calendar is coming. Slowly. Seiko seem happy to evolve their high end lines very gradually indeed so perhaps we just need to be (very) patient.

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