Reply With QuoteThat is scary. Either a very irresponsible and inconsiderate seller or a scammer.
Either way, not a good position to be in.
I agreed to purchase a 2009 Rolex Submariner from a member over on WatchesUSeek located in Germany (I'm in UK). He seemed like a great seller at the beginning - prompt replies, photos of watch as requested (showing serial numbers and papers), we exchanged ID documents (passports and recent bank statements) and even signed a contract (signatures and addresses matched perfectly).
On the back of that I wired him the cash in the first week of February. Then the stories started...
He wasn't able to ship the watch immediately. Then he said he shipped it a week later, but I didn't get tracking number. Then apparently dhl returned the package to him without explanation.
A second shipping attempt was apparently made, I didn't get tracking number until a few days later, which didn't work. A week later the watch again was returned apparently.
Communication became more scarce, but he kept trying to reassure me that he was sorry for the problems and just too busy to sort it out - he is my dad's age, 55 years old and a financial director at a big company (apparently, though his id documents stacked up)
He said he would arrange to wire the money back to me until he manages to get the watch to me (and i could pay him then). Needless to say, the money never arrived - apparently he is still chasing his bank down and is getting a friend to send me money instead.
A third delivery attempt was made, this time with a support story that he didn't fill in customs papers previously because he didn't know that was needed (as it's a transaction within the EU) but this time he apparently completed it all.
Still no watch...same story for a 4th failed attempt apparently.
I've now started telling him I'll commence legal proceedings in Germany - which I will on the back of the contract we signed. His communication has become even less rare, now weekly only to say he's trying to get money to me while locating the watch, but with no explanation what has gone wrong with recent delivery attempts.
It has taken me a long time to convince myself he is trying to con me - all the due diligence I carried out initially stacked up perfectly and the seller was very communicative and honest...I still don't want to believe I am being tricked, but I think I have to own up to it and get serious about the legal proceedings and visiting Germany to sort this crook out.
Happy to hear your thoughts guys, I'm really in a dilemma about this...
Thanks
Chris
That is scary. Either a very irresponsible and inconsiderate seller or a scammer.
Either way, not a good position to be in.
Feels crap...I'm an honest guy, done so many deals online...felt really happy with this guy too, but now just in a pickle.
I'll certainly start legal proceedings soon - have read it's not too hard in Germany and I've got everything I need (even relatives in Germany) but so would rather not have to do this
OP: I think you know the answer to your question.
Hope you get your money back.
Chris,
All I can say is I really, really hope you get your money back.
This is awful and so frightening. There are some heartless people out there.
I'm sure some of our legal experts will be on soon to offer their advice.
Hope you get sorted mate.
Dan.
Am I in denial thinking he is just a very busy business man who didn't have time to sort out the sale of the cheapest watch in his collection??? DamnOriginally Posted by seabiscuit
If he's got copies of your ID, bank account details and signature, I'd be seriously worried. Speak with your bank immediately and seek their advice.
Damn, you're so right...I didn't fully think about that!! Oh my...
You are not being scammed - you HAVE BEEN scammed.
He has your money, bank details, ID-passport and signature. There is no watch, there never was.
Seek help right now. I don't even know where you'd start I'm afraid :(
It unfortunately sounds like he is very busy ripping people off. Sorry to hear this. His documents could easily be forged (I.e. It sounds like he has all the equivalent info from you which he could be using with other people)
I'm just thinking, what can he do with MY bank details???
Hi Chris. Not your fault. You're obviously honest and trusting, whereas the seller isn't.
Is there any way your German relatives can pay this guy a visit? Face to face may be the best way to get this resolved in your favour.
Also, what really gets me is that when I asked him for a back statement, he went that very day to get a print out from the bank with his details on...so it must be his own
See if Stuffer over on wus can help he is in law enforcement in Germany
Thanks mate, that's great advice, will do
I'm afraid you are.
Step back and look at it. How many times in your life have you had trouble with either posting a parcel or sending a bank transfer? For me it's pretty much ZERO in 57 years, how many problems has he had in 10 weeks? Loads! Very busy business men are normally either very efficient or have secretaries. Its all BS. Act ASAP.
You guys are certainly moving me to action...
I would be worried.
No way should you have sent an unknown person such in depth ID details. He has got everything he needs to be robbing you.
The chances of this being a legit deal are small indeed. The stories about the deliveries and friends sending money are just fairy tales intended to keep you off balance and to give him time.
Have you googled all the details you have of him to see if you can get a secondary trace of a phone number or other details? Have you tried his general works number and asked to be put through to him?
Consider publishing his details here so others can try and trace his antecedents.
Mitch
What he can do is that he can send your details in place of his own to another person, then promptly scam them in the same way that he did you.
Get the police on the case right away.
But to get the money he still needs to give out his bank details and I've got a back statement showing his name and address - how can he clone that?
This does not make for good reading, i hope the OP gets his watch or money soon...
Or he is giving the details of an account he already had access to... Have you ever seen 'proof of life'? That is to say him in something that is not an ID card photo and the like that is current?
I'm not sure but these scammers are smart. He could change his name maybe? Would be worth doing if scamming thousands. In future buy from here Chris.
This, ^^^^^^^^^^^
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but three times, its enemy action.
Really sorry to hear of this experience, good luck I hope it pans out.
I suspect you are not dealing with would you thnk you are. This scammer has probably hijacked someone's ID.
Now he has your ID.
Was all your due diligence done looking as scans? If so they would be easy to fake.
Oh dear , what an awful story, hope you manage to sort it out in some way. I would certainly be taking things down the legal route at this stage
Just wanted to say that although i cannot offer any advice on the situation i feel for you going through this, it could be any one of us
Although things do not look good i will be keeping my fingers crossed that everything turns out ok
Keep posting with any developments as there really is a wealth of experience on here and some very clever people that can offer excellent advice
I found some info online about how to start court proceedings - they are quicker and cheaper than here in uk. I was born in Germany and so can write my initial papers, which i will do in the hope this will move him to some action...
I'm sorry I can't help as it's beyond me, there's some very clever people on here who have experience of this and giving great advice.
Really hope it works out in your favour.
I felt safe in beginning and have done several purchases and sales this way - selling can be a pain via paypal, I appreciate that.
It all looked legit from the beginning - pictures of the watch set to the time I wanted, a scan of a bank statement on the same day I requested it, copies of ID and matching signatures on the contract I drafted.
Gonna go to German authorities to on Monday...
What I don't understand is why he's been in continues communication since then...surely a con man would take his money and run!?
You need to confirm first that the person you are intending to take proceedings against is the person you have been dealing with. It could be expensive for you if you issue proceedings against a third party.
I think it is probable that the ID details you have are created or hijacked.
For starters try his generic works number (not the number he has given you) and ask to be put through to him.
Mitch
Last edited by Mitch; 12th April 2015 at 16:16.
Any ideas how I would do this?
Can't I just rely on the bank statement details - I sent money to his bank account and have the address and name linked to that bank account??
He could have created a false identity or hijacked a real or dead persons details and opened an account using those details.
He has given you his alleged employer's details and that is the obvious starting point for confirming his existence.
Have you googled his alleged address and looked it up on Google street maps?
Mitch
Last edited by Mitch; 12th April 2015 at 16:29.
Horrible situation and I hope it all turns out well for you.
I think others are saying that the details you have been given may not be the person you are dealing with. I guess you could try to contact the person named on the ID/Bank statements and see if he has also been a victim of a scam.
Part of me hopes the guy is just terribly inconsiderate, but it doesn't look good!
As stated in post 25, I fear the person you think you are dealing with is also a victim of this scam.
Yes that is probably the case but this would be a very very well thought out scheme.
All the scams I have seen, I have dealt with or I suffered under were always simple and for broad audiences never very targeted.
The last one was someone using a unknow parcel service to send me an AP from UK to Germany and refusing to use Paypal thats always a bad sign.
You should try to find more information about this person on linked in, Xing, facebook, even try calling his company you will know whats up really quickly. Try to solve it before you involve police as this may not work at all (my case) and will take a lot of work and forever.
Post the info you have here, some chaps here have an amazing ability to find out extra information.
The more he can delay you taking action, the lower chance that he can be found, and he has probably moved the money away from the bank and his location, and possibly found a way to cover his tracks.
If you have his address or phone number, you can use a few internet resources such as whois to look for him.
You may wish to edit this, not allowed in publicly viewable areas.
F.T.F.A.
In order to pay money into a bank account, all you need is an account number and sort code (or, as this is in Germany, IBAN details).
You have no way of knowing who owns that account, so the possibility is that the bank statement you received was forged (simple using Photoshop) and the contact details (name/address) on that statement bear no relationship to the real owner of that account (the scammer). For that reason, there's little point in trying to sue the "seller", or for you to travel to Germany in the hope of finding him.
As others have said, there are enough hallmarks of a well-planned fraud here that you really need to engage with law enforcement as soon as possible.
The scammer may well continue to correspond with you by email - it takes very little effort on his part, but the longer it takes for law enforcement to get involved, the colder the money trail will go (and the longer he can use the fraudulent account to try to defraud others).
This is rubbish - you don't need any customs papers for sending stuff from Germany to here. You need to report him to the police in Germany. Find the force responsible for where he allegedly lives and go to their website - in many cases you can report a crime via their website.
I hope this works out for you, but unfortunately it feels like it may not. Scans and photocopies are so easy to forge with today's technologies that you really cannot rely on them as proof of anything. Worst case scenario is that your details could now be available for a scammer to use on someone else.
It's been ten weeks and nothing just excuses and false promises, so just a little heads up on this one, start looking up credit card fraud he could open many accounts with that information.
Had your details for 10 weeks, less than 2 weeks to open accounts, a few weeks spending, plus 6 weeks for the bill to drop through your letter box, so it could be any time this week I reckon.
In the words of Captain George Mainwaring ....... all together now......
Reading this it occurs to me that the internet has given rise to trading possibilities which our consumer protection proficiency has yet to catch up with...scary.
Extremely scary. You were buying a watch. Surely all he needed was an address to sent the watch to and money in his account. Why did he need your passport, bank statement and signature? Why would he need all this information unless he plans to use it for a dishonest purpose? I would be asking for advice from police and possibly seeking advice from lawyer who is an expert in identity theft.
Last edited by GrandS; 12th April 2015 at 19:41.
I can't offer any words or advice that differ from what has already been said but I really do hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction, it's an awful state of affairs to be in and I'm sure you won't be in the least bit surprised to hear that I don't envy your position in the slightest - good luck!
Is there a H&V over on watchuseek that you can check up on?
See if they did any deal with an established member. Deals with low posting members with no feedback them self can prob be ignored as unreliable.
Post this on the replica forum, those guys clearly work for MI5 and will crack the case in no time.
But in all seriousness, what a nightmare of a situation. I assume the seller had no feedback on WUS?
That’s the bit that struck me as odd (although perhaps the OP initiated that exchange of info).
I do hope this all gets sorted out, Chris-X.
- - - Updated - - -
That’s the bit that struck me as odd (although perhaps the OP initiated that exchange of info).
I do hope this all gets sorted out, Chris-X.
The more I read this, the more I think the most simple answer is he is stringing you out to maximise the time has to use that bank account to scam other people without the hassle of setting up a new one.
Edit: I see over on watchuseek he's just been banned for using someone's images to try and sell another watch - if there was any doubt, you've been scammed.
Last edited by Alansmithee; 12th April 2015 at 19:39.
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