Reply With QuoteTotally agree. Price is something personal between buyer and seller in my book.Originally Posted by DB9yeti
I don't want to disclose the price I've paid. I mostly buy my watches new from an AD and I usually get a better deal than some I see reported. I have a good relationship with my chosen AD's and I don't want to jeopardise it. Disclosing the price might anger another customer who has paid more, or it might bring some rude loudmouth to the AD shouting that a dude called Possu said he paid just xxx€ and I demand the same price. That wouldn't be beneficial to the AD and it wouldn't be beneficial to me. If somebody asks where I got the watch and what I paid for it, I'll just say where I got it and got good service and was happy with the price.
Totally agree. Price is something personal between buyer and seller in my book.
Last edited by Chinnock; 1st March 2015 at 08:49.
If you state price your are either looking for assurance you didn't pay too much or are keen for people to know what you spent.
Either way it's crass.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
I feel the opposite - this is not a cheap hobby - money is fundamental to our ability to partake in the hobby at various levels.
I genuinely dont see why it is considered so "dirty" and secret when it comes to price paid - we're all like minded folk on a specialist forum, and for me this is an all to frequent and frustrating omission.
It's not like talking money "down the pub" when surrounded by folk who probably have no specialist interest in the topic.
It really is about the money.
Then feel free to post up the costs of your watches if you need everyone to know how much you've spent every time. I won't, and I don't.
It's not a 'dirty' secret and anyone can find out for themselves. It's just crass to tell people about who much you've spent. If they ask, then perhaps that different. They'll still be ignored by me, but other mileage varies clearly.
The hobby, for me, is about watches. Of course they cost money, and it's easy for anyone to find out in 30secs flat, but the hobby isn't talking about how much they cost.
The flip side of this is someone going into your AD and saying " I was going to buy this at xxxxx for £xxxx but Possu suggested I could possibly get a better deal from you".
Win win; the dealer gets s sale, buyer gets a good price and Possu's a great guy for bringing business to the AD!
Sure, I see your point, but I just think that it's a unique hobby whereby price is intrinsically linked to the item itself.
I am a cyclist and on one of the road bike forums (where bikes easily cost upto £10k), and when someone displays their bike build, it's common practice to put the cost of the bike and/or all the components for general interest. No-one regards this as a secret, and it's just accepted and very helpful not having to go and google grey dealers / bike shops for all the prices which is an inconvenience.
The topic of money? Everyone needs to earn, presumably they all have jobs, why would you not sit in a busy pub and tell everyone how much you earned?
For me, it's the same, for you clearly not. Let's agree to differ and you can post your incomings with attention to price paid however you wish.
Must admit, I'm with ach. I don't see what the big deal is about sombody asking the price or somone stating the price. Generally if your on this forum you have a intrest in watches and obviously price has a big part to play in what watches you can aspire or hope to own and to some extent your interests follow what you can afford.
I could only dream about dropping 20k on a watch however because somebody else has im not going to cry, and asking is out of a pure interest and possibly a "if I won the lottery" moment. Even then a ball park would be enough for me.
Saying its "crass" " have class " "it's vulgar" just screams "I'm considerably better than you"
Let's face it you must be very touchy if you find the price of watches vulgar on a watch site.
I see how it's valid on that forum (no idea why, but I do).
Perhaps it's because watches are nothing but a luxury item and some utterly absurd sums are spent on them here. Jealousy rears it's ugly green head here infrequently, I somehow doubt that on a bicycle forum.
I used to be on PH forum discussing cars as well. Same thing, money is almost never discussed unless its a 'how much is a good XXX?' question. No-one asks how much your car cost or how much the modifications cost. When they do, they are ignored; invariably it's someone with no idea, teenagers/students usually, who are often shocked and then react badly and rudely 'you've got more money than sense' etc.
Cost of servicing seems very OK to post up though, as it does here :)
Then as discussed, continue to post up the prices you have paid for your watches and discuss them ad nauseum. As much as you seem to think you're not, you're already showing a chip with the 'I'm considerably better than you' comment.
Perhaps you're unusual in that you want people buying £20k watches to ram the prices of them down the membership's collective throats. Had you considered that not everyone wants that?
I never fail to put in a good word about my AD's when I get the chance. I just think it's wiser to leave out the exact amount paid. I do hope some of the personnel read the forums and appreciate my actions.
In this light I'd like to recommend Westerback and Osk. Lindroos, if you find yourself shopping for watches in Helsinki. Good deals to be had and excellent service too.
I don't think that's what's being discussed. We're not discussing the price of watches, we're discussing talking about the prices paid for a specific member's watch.
Subtle, but very big difference.
But they'd actually say "I was going to buy this at xxxxx for £xxxx but Possu says he got it for £xxx and I want the same deal".
You can get the ballpark figure in less than a minute with googling, so I don't see the point in disclosing the amount paid.
No diffrence at all ! If your asked, clearly the person wants to know! I'm new to watches so if I see somone showing off their watch I don't recognise then what is wrong with asking how much that type of watch would cost? It then gives an idea if it's somthing I could buy?
If somone insults you for telling them then it's their issue not yours..
Talking of "chips" you are probably a really nice guy but you come across awful on the forum with majority of your posts.
I'm with DB9yeti on this one. Maybe it's old fashioned, but I was brought up to believe that going on about money is vulgar. Perhaps it began with the well off not wishing to make others uncomfortable, but in general even for the rest of us, someone will come out of it feeling disappointed with their life and someone else end up looking like a show off - so as a dinner party conversation it rarely improves the atmosphere.
Fortunately we can all enjoy discussing a beautiful watch, even if we can't all afford to own it. So I'd rather concentrate and what unites us than what divides us.
Agreed, there's a fine line between being informed and what can be perceived as bragging which is a distasteful trait IMO, best off not discussing atall...Google's a wonderful thing
Both sides in this discussion have valid points and the way to go about it is just a matter of personal preference. I see no reason to go down to personal insults.
The point ach made regarding bike forums is a good one, but I think the watch game is a bit different. I have seen discussions of mods and services, where prices paid are mentioned and I think the bike example is closer to that. There is a subtle difference in it. I'll try to clarify my point with examples:
1. Just got this watch brand new and paid a whopping £xxx. Really love it!
2. Just got my watch modded. New bezel from bezel.org £xxx, new set of hands from hands.com for £xxx and a dial from an old pocket watch off auction site x for £xxx. Total cost for moddind was £xxx and I'm pretty darn pleased.
I think there is a difference, but as said, I understand there are other and reasonable points of view.
There's an ignore list. Please do add me to yours.
The days when this forum's SC was, mostly, essentially a lending library in which we passed watches around at no profit/modest loss, have, I'm afraid, long gone.
That's partly shown by the fact that our host has identified the issue with dealers, but also by the fact that very optimistic prices are regularly asked on the SC - sometimes even significantly more than the same watches are available from traders on C24 in my experience.
So I'm cautious buying from folks I don't know, especially when they've owned a watch for a short period, know nothing of its history and can't even comment on timekeeping when asked.
So, to answer the OP's point: I feel a bit better about an asking price when a well-known member says (as some still do) that they're asking the same as/less than they paid - but I still do check these days. Especially if the seller insists on shouting 'BARGAIN' in their listing. I'd rather make my own mind up about that....
I disagree - plenty of that still going on IMHO. But a lot of watches I am moving on for something else don't even make it to SC, they're sold via PM.
1. This forum was never about the money until the last couple of years. Membership increase, rise in social media, the forum changes.
2. Sales Corner prices are "transparent". No they're not. Seller XYZ asks for (say) £1000. Potential buyer offers (say, again) 10% less & deal is done.
Seller XYZ doesn't post "Sold for £900!" He posts "Sold!" Only two people know the actual amount agreed; the buyer & the seller. The only transparency is that the watch is no longer for sale from Seller XYZ.
3. Telling people what you paid is most often done to show how you got a bargain, insider's deal or whatever. It is done to show, essentially, that you are smarter than the average bear.
Not sure if that was a typo?
I have never seen any overt jealousy here in all the years I have been browsing, and hence my rationale that revealing the cost is of pure interest, not jealousy etc. I have no feeling either way about the purchaser when money is mentioned - I am not sure where jealousy even comes into this, nor comments about "vulgarity" (I think as hinted at above, this notion says more about the purchaser than the observers who likely really aren't bothered other than in a genuinely curious way about the cost of the watch itself for what it is, not the wealth of the owner. After all, everyone seems to buy on credit anyway ;-p ;-p (but we wont get started on the credit-for-luxury-items debate here)
It wasn't a typo. It's thankfully not a common occurrence. But it's there.
This discussion is now turning into people with different opinions ascribing characteristics to people they don't even know. Let's just not bother.
To answer the OP, the 'etiquette' is to do what you feel comfortable with. Asking the cost of a watch will be politely ignored by me. Others can and will do as they wish.
I think what I originally posted about is best shown by an example. By the way; this is the first time I have ever discussed the detailed price of a watch I own online.
I have a about a dozen watches and right now I have a Seiko 5 on my wrist that I really like. I'll link a picture at the end.
The watch could be purchased in a high street shop for ~ £160 or there are online sellers offering the watch for about ~ £60 (incl P&P). I got mine for about £80 a few months back.
To put that in perspective a guy could buy 2 of the same watches online and still have money left to get a couple of NATO straps and I personally think that is important and anyone who was going to buy that watch would kick themselves if they didn't know about it.
Does anyone think I am crass or vulgar ?
Does anyone care?
A lot of people are getting very hung up on issues here, and things are getting too personal.
We all spend and loose a hell of a lot more on cars, but even in that murky world pricing is more transparent. For example Parkers produce their used car pricing guide and Top Gear list target prices based on market research.
With more relevance to activity on this forum, individual marque and classic car fora members are happy to advise new prospective buyers on pricing, condition, spec and inside information on potential sales from trusted individuals. This is viewed as a way of promoting the hobby within a virtual community, and maintaining sustainablity. There's no shame in telling someone their budget is too low, try consider something else, get it checked out thoroughly at that price, or it seems over priced at that.
We're all trying to avoid sharks and dodgey deals, and at the end of the day the forum is a place to get people more enthused about watches. If we can encourage more buying and selling at sensible prices without individuals loosing chunks of money, it can only get stronger.
Since joining this forum my interest in watches has grown hugely. Previously I could afford to buy a new watch every 3-4 years, and after the thrill had gone, they'd be horded away. Now I'm more inclined to flip, and turn them over more frequently. My interest in both the top and lower end of the price spectrum has increased as I see models that the usual marketing doesn't expose me to. I'd be much happier now buying an £100 watch or one at £30K knowing I could flip it without wasting my hard earned cash in the process.
Rough pricing knowledge is valuable and should help watch trade, not hinder it. The only people scared of it are those who are making a lot of money out of it.
Just my personal opinion, which one should be able to share without open criticism or hostility on a forum such as this!
Is there not a risk to an AD of losing its AD status for a brand of you broadcast the good deal you may have got?
RRPs are available to all. Most know what discounts are available after that to all. The odd person can negotiate a little more due to being a preferential customer, or because they are buying a NOS watch or are a cash buyer on a Monday morning etc.
People are too concerned with what other people have paid. As long as you are happy with your deal and the watch then forget everyone else.
Rough pricing is available all over the internet isn't it? No-ones being scretive, some just don;t put what price they paid. Surely that's their business?
As to your second point - you're wrong.
I see a lot of this happening here with watches. People asking where to get their Seiko 5's or Orient Makos, someone asking about the price of a particular watch they're considering etc. If the question is asked in a polite manner, usually it gets several answers. There is a huge difference in giving your opinion about a deal, or pointing someone towards a good retailer vs. telling what you have paid for yours.
I agree with all of that. But that;s not the same thing.
I use a marque specialist for work on my car and I offered it up as a prototype for them to develop their modifications on. The price I pay is basically material costs, I do NOT pay what the regular paying customers do, plus I get a lower labour rate for general work due to having that relationship. Me informing all and sundry that they can't get the prices I do seems a bit unfair on everyone really.
I don't publish to the whole World that info (neither a lot of others), but I don't have any problem to tell it to my friends and colleagues when they ask to me.
Just a question of common sense.
To use this car analogy, surely if there was another reputable marque specialist in your area that was say £20/hour cheaper on labour or 5% cheaper on parts etc. you would wish to know that ?
You'd be crazy not to want that information.
On the street, when someone asks "oh how much was your watch??" then i appreciate it's a classless question, that's none of their business. 99% of the time they want to know to judge you one way or another.
On a watch forum though... if you're going to the extent of showing off pictures of your new purchase (nothing against that, please do, i love seeing others watches!) then I don't understad why you would be offended and/or be secretive about the price... we all know or can research the approximate value of MOST watches, so by asking the question, the chances are we love the watch and just want a quick answer as to whether it is going to be affordable or possible to be aded to our own collections.
So yeah... no problem asking or being asked for a price of a watch here.
Your analogy makes no sense with regard to my example.
1) there isn't one
2) I get a discounted labour rate - basically cost
3) the parts are made bespoke, I pay for the raw materials
I recommend them to everyone, but when asked 'how much did you pay for your fancy clutch', I can't/won't answer because I pay a different price to others. They can contact the garage, just the same as people here can look on C24. The same goes with watch dealers you have a long relationship with.
You'd be crazy not to keep posting this tripe - only 3 more posts to access SC!
If via PM, the required advice is dispensed and no-one appears crass.
I don't because it is no-ne else's business but mine.
If someone asks nicely I may (or may not) tell them, once again because it is no-one else's business.
Quite simple really.
If my friends or colleagues ask, i just tell them you can't put a price on quality
I agree, I think a polite PM would probably elicit the required answers.
Your after getting way too emotive about this topic !
Anyone would think I'm proposing some sort of rule change here, I'm asking a question and I understand your point. Stop getting bent out of shape.
You're arguing people's answers if they don't suit you. It can become irritating thus the shape bending.
Amidst all of the chat about attitudes and vulgarity etc. Theres also the issue of relationships.
Some people have put in a lot of effort to make good relationships either on or off the forums or with dealers.
They take time to build.
I've made offline friends here who are able to source me what I'm looking for, take trade on what I have etc and spend time in my company talking about watches as a mutual interest. That's my primary source for trading.
Secondarily Ive got a couple of dealers who ive used over the years who know me by name, treat me well, and will give me a good discount because of the relationship I have with them. They'll also bend over backwards to help people I send in their direction.
That takes work, it takes being reliable, it takes honesty.. and sometimes it takes significant financial input.
Why do you think that you or anyone else should be handed the information and results of my effort so the results can be used as a bargaining tool to get prices that you/they want?
If it's just a case of curiosity or price checking, do a little self led research or fire a PM over and I'd help but I think there's a bit of misplaced entitlement happening if you feel that you should automatically be given the numbers / discount details that others achieve through their own time and graft.
* I'm not talking about heads up deals here or finding something cheaper elsewhere online than through a bricks and mortar.. Google usually yields the same results if you can be bothered to use it.
Last edited by verv; 1st March 2015 at 15:23.
I'm not proposing anyone should be posting prices on here if they don't want to, that's not what the original question was about and I have no interest in pushing anyone's sense of responsibility/class/etc.
I myself have never posted any price data here, WUS or Rolexforums (with the exception of the Seiko 5 illustrative example given while ago) and have been on watch forums for 10 years or more.
I am also an active member of a particular car brand owners group and also a group on models (kit and scratch built). Both of those forums would typically discuss costs as part of any review of a car or model product that a poster purchased. The same analogy is not true for watches in geneal.
I find myself complicit in the whole process and that is very interesting. If I built a model boat and posted pictures online I would talk about the costs of components where I got them etc. I would not do the same for a watch and wonder if that is playing into the hands of ADs.
I'm with DB9Yeti on this (apologies for referring to you in such a way, I only know you as the user name).
The way I see it is my personal enjoyment of the forum I don't need to know the prices, for example DB9Yeti recently posted about the VC incoming he/she had and I really enjoyed reading that post, looking at the photographs, the enthusiasm shown for the watch, and the unusual styling of the watch itself ... I'm not interested in what was paid for it as that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the thread. If I was ever in the market for such a watch I'd do my own research for what they cost at that time (and prices do fluctuate) and possibly contact DB9Yeti for any useful hints and tips that could be provided to help in the search and what his/her personal thoughts were around ownership.
I also think with watches at that level (I'm guessing given it's a gold cased VC it's not in the peanuts category) then to post the price could be seen as rubbing folks noses in how much they can afford to spend - lots of us aren't playing at that sort of level so to make it obvious could be seen as showmanship - for me that's not what this forum is all about.
I agree with you here, and take this well made point.
A high end watch like that with a declared matching price tag would have showmanship written all over it.
+1 - if you're really interested a polite PM to a fellow member will no doubt get the information you want. Heck this is a community after all and no doubt we try to help fellow members if possible in getting deals on watches they are interested in. At the very least we can point them in the right direction.
Also if all this posting price nonsense makes people hesitant on writing up incomings of their new watches that would be a crying shame and lessen this forum substantially.
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