Reply With QuoteA great athlete in his day, but he's had troubles for a while now.
Having read the Big Miss - Hank Haney's frank account of working with Tiger Woods, it struck me that Woods has mental health issues.
Watching some of his shots recently and his no show in the Ryder Cup (continual back and knee problems), it looks like we are witnessing the capitulation of one of sports greats.
Mentally Tiger seems to have gone, or perhaps he's just moved on.
Lindsey Vonn is enough to take any man's mind off golf.
http://www.buschleaguesports.com/ind...tory-in-italy/
But having slumped to 56th in the world ranking, coming 132nd in the Phoenix open shooting a card wrecking 82.
the shots he was playing would embarress an 18 handicapper.
Sad to see but maybe like with Seve time and age have just caught up with him?
http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2015/2/...enix-open-2015
A great athlete in his day, but he's had troubles for a while now.
I am inclined to agree, old age and deterioration comes to us all and always rather early for sportsmen.Originally Posted by ANDYB151
Mick
I'm sure he will win again, but he is now past his best and no chance of him overtaking Jack as the all time best.
Doing all those holes has got to take its toll.
LOL!
In all seriousness though, doing all that road running and wannabe Navy Seal training has really taken its toll on TW. His body is no longer up to playing golf at the standard he once played.
I would be surprised if he ever wins anything significant again.
I don't dislike the fella - I just think he's broken.
(also Lindsey Vonn is mine - she just doesn't know it yet)
Too early to say really, i'd say give him another couple of tournaments to see if he can come back in some way, as with most he's a confidence player, so who knows, one good round and he could do well, although the days of dominance are over he still has the ability to win more majors for me, he just needs to get that confidence back.
I hope so. Vile human being.
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
Maybe wearing his DSSD all the time has finally worn him out
I can't see him coming back, and given another bad tournament or two along the lines of the Phoenix one, I'm not sure how strong his resolve will be to continue - hope he surprises us, just doubt he will!
Why?I hope so. Vile human being.
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
He doesn't look in the best of health at the moment and I agree with others, looks past his best now. But could still come back and produce over 4 rounds and win another major or two if he can put it all together.
I'm not a Tiger fan, despise how he behaved using his wife/kids as a shield while trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes.
Despite that I'm not into the knee jerk reaction to his performance on the course.
He has been there before where he was written off before coming back to World #1. This time he had back surgery before choosing to go with a new coach!
A month before xmas when some Videos of his new swing were released the hype was how good it was, now 6 rounds later he is washed up WTF? is that all about!
Give it some time and if anyone wants a small wager that he will not break into the top 50 this season I'm all ears.
And I have to say on the HH book.
To many it is a "Bitter account" not a "frank account"
Last edited by ASK3L; 4th February 2015 at 22:35.
Why is he a vile human being? What evidence do you have apart from what's out there in the media?Because he cheated on his wife.... That puts a huge population of men in the same category. Because he's not as media friendly as other golfers.... He got quoted off the record very early on and has been guarded ever since. Because he's got a huge ego..... Add countless other driven successful people to that list too!I hope so. Vile human being.
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
I'm a huge golf fan and have read some books on Woods and he is one of the most well liked players amongst his peers. I don't doubt he's got numerous faults but you try living in the media spotlight 24-7 for 20 years and see how you get on!
He's been written off numerous times and proven people wrong in the past. I've seen him play in the flesh and, not being old enough to have seen Nicklaus in his prime, he is the best golfer of my generation and I hope he goes on to win again, especially another Major. But as the Captain said Nicklaus' 18 majors must seem a very long way away
Last edited by sevvy; 4th February 2015 at 22:38.
One of the most well liked players amongst his peers! I don't think so. I know people within the game and Woods and Phil Mickelson are two of the most disliked players in the game! His body can't seem to take the strain of playing tournament golf.
Then read one of the books on Woods by Tom Callahan who is a journalist covering the PGA Tour and has done for years with access to all areas. The book actually highlights this because of Mickelson's media friendly image compared with how his peers see him, which was the reverse of Woods. I'm not for one second saying Woods is a great guy. Heaven knows he needs some seriously good PR at times. But Woods seems to polarise people the way no other golfer does when the vast majority of people calling all sorts of hideous names know very little about him. Dustin Johnson has just come back from self imposed exile after being caught cheating on a fellow players wife, loads of rumours of drugs use and shagging around. Yet he gets a minuscule of attention in comparison.
I think someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Woods was obsessed with the Navy Seals training because of his Dad's background and it's probably this that's caused him the endless issues.
I do not think any other golfer has successfully changed their swing more then once - in terms of massive overhaul on swing, tiger is now on what his 4th or 5th version??? He looks so uncomfortable when he swings now compared to 1997 -2004 ( his swing changed in that period as well but it was always fluid) Look at all the greatest players of all time generally they stuck with what they had (if they were already successful) unless they had to change due to injury (hogan and a few others) Although I am sure someone will find some exceptions :-).
IMO Tiger has injured himself with his swing under foley. He now seems to have lost his short game which again IMO under pressure was arguably the best ever! Shame, would love to see him at his peak going head to head with Rory.
I have made quite a bit on betfair shorting Tiger woods in all majors for the last 4 years.
A book by a journo, the truth! Really!
DJ took a self imposed exile! As with a few others he was told if he didn't he was getting a ban and it had nothing to do with shagging about!
Tiger doing seal training all the time! According to Tiger!
Nobody else changes swing! It's a shorter list to name someone who sticks to 1.
It's truly shocking what people choose to believe when they should know better or at least look at the big picture not what the tabloid journalism is telling you!
Tigers dominance of golf is unfortunately over . He has over engineered his body and left behind what were his core ingredients to his earlier success .
When you consider at the time of his ' indescretions '! He was going round the world dominating the majority of the events he played in . A feat of some endurance and strategic planning to boot .
Since a young boy he was moulded into the almost Super golfing machine both on a mental and physical basis .
Once he found fame and fortune and possibly the death of his Father who was unarguably the dominant force behind his career distractions have become harder to ignore . It was really just a matter of time .
Tiger was at his best easily the best golfer on the Planet . He doesn't have the elasticity he had ten years ago , his hips are slower , on the course at least ;-) He has bulked up his body too much and his mental focus which I believe was his main strength is nothing like it was . There were times in his career that after a round of golf he couldn't remember what shots he had played where . Almost trance like state that he had been playing under .
He I am sure will bounce back to win here and there , he is too good not too but the days of greatness are a distant memory now .
Mcilroy will dominate for a while but his hips cannot move the way they do forever , many golfers today are shortening their shelf life by over exerting their joints using vastly overdeveloped certain muscle groups.
Time will tell.
Then perhaps you should look up Tom Callahan then, he is anything but a tabloid journalist. He is one of the most respected sports writers in the US.
I don't believe what tabloid hacks write. I read a lot of print and make my own balanced view. The point I'm merely trying to make is that Woods polarises like no other when there are other guys on Tour who are no Angels themselves. None knows why DJ took self exile because he won't say, but many people guess it's drugs. However he was caught shagging another players wife which is fact, and he is reputed to have been shagging around too which is not confirmed.
I'm not really a golf fan so maybe shouldn't post about TW, but do prey enlighten us as to what makes him a ''Vile human being''?I hope so. Vile human being.
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
Yea I reckon this sort of sums up my view. I've just finished...In search of the Tiger, Ian Staffords great read on a high handicappers grail to break shooting 80. He travels the world looking for the Tiger ingredient. The book was written in 2002, when Tiger was at his hiatus.
In the last dozen years so much has changed in Tigers life, mentally he just seems not to have the resolve. Faldo had the mental strength to fundimentally change. Ernie Els is also very tough mentally, but very few can hang in there at the very top... post 40. Tigers on the cusp, at 39 he has to make serious choices if he wishes to compete like Tom Watson, Phil Mickleson, Couples, Furyk etc.
Or he just walks away. I hate to see him spiral down even lower and become a journey man. The seniors is 11 years away he'll not make that.
Golf needs him with the Olympic agenda on the horizon, he is/was one of the greatest living sportsman, just sad to see him hacking around a shadow of his former self.
I think that the decline of Tiger Woods exemplifies my feeling that top international sportsmen are more often than not fundamentally flawed as human beings.
Any youngster with talent or "star quality" is processed by "the system" and honed into a one-dimensional machine. Once out of their very small world of performing and giving scripted and rehearsed media appearances they really aren't very accomplished as people.
There are, of course, exceptions to this. But in the modern era of agents and personal sponsors they seem to be few and far between. So it's hardly surprising that some of them go off the rails occasionally, and given the fact that their lives are lived in the media spotlight, any transgression is instant news around the globe thanks to the public's insatiable appetite for gossip and scandal.
Couldn't agree more with above post.
I think where Woods has made it worse for himself is by being so prickly with the media and, as a result, they jump on the opportunities that arise from Woods' life.
Dan Jenkins did a hatchet job on him recently by doing a pretend interview with him, it was very funny
You don't have to write for a tabloid to write tabloid journalism.
DJ was drugs, pure and simple. The rest of his lifestyle was nothing to do with it.
It was common knowledge in the pro golf communities in South Florida and he was given a last chance to do it on his terms by the PGA.
Some interesting though obvious statements by Foley in this article but none speculative enough or claiming he's done today or going to rule the world tomorrow for those who need that type of statement.
http://scoregolf.com/blog/rick-young...foley-fired-up
Just looking at his physical change must have had an impact on his game.
Take a look at him in his Walker cup days to now.
Was his game ever in need of such massive physical change, surely he can't be the same golfer after that.
Who is to say that all individuals will become even greater with such changes??
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I've no axe to grind (or point to make) about his personal life.
My opinion regarding his golf game is that his body is letting him down. He's spent more than 75% of his life hitting golf balls (probably millions of them) and walking miles (probably tens of thousands of them) after he's hit them. It's work-related physical deterioration. His mind may still see the shots the same way, but his body can't carry them out as he wishes.
I'm very wary about taking a position based on the tabloid media - for example, I was a ligger and hanger-on at a party a few years ago with my Newspaper editor BiL, I was amazed to see fiercely hetrosexual F1 star [] very cosy with a young gentleman of a similar age - I thought "this is sure to be in the papers!" - never a word.
His back has given way and he's pulled out of the Farmers Insurance event at Torrey Pines.
I've been saying for 6 years he is never going to win another major and see nothing in his form (of which there is little left) or luck with injuries to suggest anything different..
Hi Gareth, how's tricks, hope you are well and playing well.
I've said many a time I'm not an Eldrick fan, spot the name use the guy that was on about his frame as a Walker Cupper. At that time Watson and Jack thought Big Gordon Sherry had a better future!! OH to be a great golfer and use that skill to look into the future EH!
That aside, you say you have seen no great signs of him winning a Major and nothing in his form in the last 6 years? How the heck do you explain 2013? 5 wins, coming from nowhere back to #1 in the ranking? Bar 00/01 or whatever one of his best years!
PS, Jack was further off the radar in 86 when he won I'd say.
As for this week with no inside info and him withdrawing from the Farmers, I'd guess they have decided to step back to look at how things are going after the WM and get past Tigers optimism. Exactly the same as he has done before and makes sense.
EDIT added as I thought you were saying he withdrew before play, not during play. I'm still not going to jump on the bandwagon and say the tabloid headline "Tiger will never walk again!" I'll wait and see.
Last edited by ASK3L; 6th February 2015 at 01:09.
Me too. Never say never...
Just for the misinformed Tiger Woods has been on TV for almost his entire life. I remember watching the TV show "Thats Incredible" in the late 70's with him and his father on a segment. I never forgot it because the father pushed him so hard at age 3 (had to google his age at the time he was on the show).
I always remembered the segment & the name Tiger Woods because of the awe that it inspired in me. Is he vile for cheating on his wife ..thats mostly how women here in the US feel about men who cheat..I don't think cheating makes him vile.
I agree with Gareth, I have been shorting Tiger Woods in all majors for at least the last 4 years. Yes he did win 5 times a few seasons ago, on courses that he had previously won (I am pretty sure he had multiple victories at most of the courses he won on) However whenever he teed it up in any major he could not hit it on the fairway (and the set up in a major is generally more penal), anyway it has netter me a great return as he was generally the favourite on Betfair before the tournament started.
I also bet a mate (a pro) £500 that he would not win a major while Sean Foley remained as his coach. His swing no longer stands up to the pressure of the majors, and it now appears he has lost his short game, which is sad to see as he was the master under pressure IMO
If you want to read a guy who does great analysis on golf swing with lots about TW over the years check out www.waxgolf.com
Earl Woods (as many Fathers do) set the template for his son in most regards. Unfortunately for Tiger it wasn't the best example to take in adulthood. I'm not going into detail but feel free to do your own research into Earl. And no it's not just hearsay as I personally know people in the Golf industry that a) knew Earl and Tiger and b) had several business dealings with both too.
As for Tigers "cheating" (off the course, just sake of clarity..............) I would suggest that the fuller details of his "indiscretions" are what cause people (both women+men) to look at him with dismay. It is well documented that Tiger set the bar very low for his "conquests" but the fact he slept with multiple women of dubious background without any form of protection at all beggars belief......and more so when you consider that this also occurred consistently when he was a) trying for a second child with his wife and b) whilst she was pregnant with Charlie.
That shows a monumental lack of intelligence and respect for everyone he professes to love/cherish......which might partly explain the depth and breadth of some peoples feelings on Tiger Woods now.
Last edited by Gareth-W; 6th February 2015 at 11:02. Reason: typo
Hey Andy!! Good to hear from you.
It would be a committed optimist to say that detailed analysis of Tigers form in the majors since 2008 suggested that he was really "back" for the only tournaments he coverts. He's never looked convincing in any despite the odd top 5 position in a couple of events.
Even before his wedge game degenerated to a poor 23 handicapper level it was clear that Tigers primary powers were simply gone since his 2009 return. Namely;
Putting - he simply has lost the ability to will putts into the hole when it matters most....and misses considerably more than he makes. And for a number of years now I have seen him casually knock in the odd 1-2 foot putt without even addressing the ball and risking a miss.....something he would never have done pre 2008.
Mental strength - in my opinion his golfing mind is gone. The strength he had has become diluted as its cluttered with so much baggage - personal and professional. And he's utterly delusional with the "anytime I tee it up its a 'W' I expect or nothing" mantra that sounds more hollow every time he says it.
Intimidation factor - today's players (both younger and Tigers age group) simply aren't "worried" by him whatsoever and he knows it too....which becomes a self fulfilling result.
Physical well being - let's face it, he's a crocked golfer now after all he has put his body through and the subsequent injuries as he gets older.
The swing/power - What once was a thing of beauty and power has long gone. His issues with the driver (mental and physical) are well known but they now seem to filter into the rest of his game........take his wedge green side play for that example. Obviously having multiple coaches and opinions through the years have brought him to where he is now.
So I'm happy to stand by my assertion that in the games blue riband events Tiger is, at most, a bit time player for the rest of his career......and that is somewhat sad to say but at the end of the day it's only one persons fault and he is called Eldrick............
Last edited by Gareth-W; 6th February 2015 at 11:00. Reason: typo
Pretty spot on analysis.
The sad thing is the longer this continues the more people will stop remembering all the great golf he did play.
He doesn't make it any easier by making out he's in full health when he clearly isn't.
Your idol was the same in many respects Sevvy. Seve went to David Leadbetter back in the 1990's and they drew up a plan for Seve's swing.
But Leadbetter say's Seve's brothers did not want him taking the time off the tour to rebuild his swing...the rest is history.
I play skins with an old golf pro John Hudson, John played on tour into his late 50's. He's now 69, a few weeks ago I played skins with him at our local course. He shot 35 for nine holes including 2 birdies and an eagle, the weather was bloody cold. His swing is effortless. His eagle was achieved with an 185 yard 3 iron approach that Tiger would have been proud of!
John believes you adapt your swing for what your body can do, as an amputee I have to adapt. that way I can compete and still impove.
The ball is now firmly in Tigers court, he needs to either walk away or go away an adapt his game to see him into his 40's. Westwood is doing the same to good effect as has Darren Clarke. His body issues are much over played its Tigers mentality that needs addressing.
He will always be considered one of the greatest golfers that have ever lived, thats a given. How that legacy is embedded is entirely up to him. Muhammad Ali was in the same sort of boat...Tiger just needs to turn the page.
The stats don't lie:
(from Golf week)
Since returning from back surgery to play the Quicken Loans National last June, Woods has played in 17 rounds on Tour. His scoring average during that stretch is 73.24, more than a half-shot worse than the worst-scoring Tour player of 2014, Derek Ernst, who ranked 177th at 72.593.
Not including his 12-hole drive-by Thursday at Torrey Pines, Woods has played 306 holes since returning from back surgery: 2 eagles, 53 birdies, 181 pars, 54 bogeys, 12 double bogeys and 4 triple bogeys. That's 33 over during the stretch.
Thursday, Woods added a new wrinkle to his ongoing recovery: "glutes deactivating."
Last edited by wildheart; 6th February 2015 at 14:49.
Got to agree with this! well written!
Tiger Woods is taking an indefinite break from golf, saying his game is "unacceptable for tournament play".
Woods, 39, withdrew injured from last week's event at Torrey Pines after just 12 holes, having missed the cut at the Phoenix Open the week before.
He said: "I need a lot of work on my game, and to spend time with people that are important to me like models from adult films.
"I enter a tournament to compete at the highest level, and when I think I'm ready, I'll be back."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/31432730
^^^ <chortle> I suspect that certain aspects of that quote may not be exactly as Mr. Woods uttered them.
Having just read that article on the BBC, I didn't bother reading the quote... Well spotted!
Sad to see anyone suffer from metal health issues. Tiger has been and is a fantastic player and I don't think he's been the same since his dad died. I do hope he makes a full recovery primarily from his issues and then eventually pick up his clubs. It puts life into perspectiVe
It sad to see such a great player in terminal decline.For a number of reason I can't see him coming back anywhere near his best form.Too many great sportsmen keep on competiting well past their prime and its sad to see them a shadow of their previous selves. Why they do this I don't know ? ego or sometimes financial reasons ,surrounded by too many yes men. All it does is overshadow and lead to their greatness being forgotten.
Very sad but inevitable...Tiger, thanks for the memories I hope you find something new that you can exceed at?
Having listened to him and seen what he's been doing of late i guess it might be a while before he's back competing, if ever now. Sadly he's doing the thing that us amateurs are cursed with, overthinking his swing and his game, we all know he has all the tools to win, but constantly tweaking isn't going to help.
I wonder if (amongst other things for sure) he has suffered from too much continuous improvement. What I mean is that people who excel at a certain thing often try to continuously improve every aspect of their performance. This is usually a beneficial approach. However, for someone who is genuinely at the top of their field of endeavour, it can also be risky because there may be nowhere to go to actually improve. Thus they can end up reducing their performance, rather than improving it.
Just a thought. And if that is the/a problem here, I'm sure it's not the only one.
Last edited by markrlondon; 12th February 2015 at 10:28.
Yes he is.
I don't doubt this news is very sad to Tiger Woods fans/some parts of the game of golf at large but as I said before it's pretty clear that the majority of the issues with TW are one's of his own making.......
And (personally speaking) I think the loss of his Father hasn't really been a huge part of the downfall in his game as he still won 4 of his 14 majors after Earl passed away.
I was enthralled watching the play at the US Open last night at the brutal Chambers Bay. I only saw Tigers first few holes, but when he started bogey bogey I feared for him. Golf can be such a cruel game, but one birdie and a treble bogey on the 14th seems to have made making the cut almost impossible. No doubt Chambers Bay is a very tough course but Tiger shoot 80 again must be killing him inside.
he has stated he needs to play more golf, but at this rate he will do well just to make the cut in events.
His only saving grace is that Ricky Fowler had a worse round than him, but seeing Monty shoot 11 shots better than him must be gauling for Tiger!
The question these days is not can Tiger win a tournament...can he break 80!
Couldn't have happened to a better person. Over the years he has played some fantastic golf, but as a person he plays off 28.
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