Reply With QuoteHe has done the time and he should now be free to seek employment in his chosen profession.
Massive media debate again today
No remorse keeps coming up, but he's never going to say sorry as he stands by his side of the story
So.... He's done his crime, served his time...
Other high ranking footballers have returned after huge crimes;
Lee Hughes
Marlon King
Etc
I'm going to cause s rumpus and say he shouldn't be denied work, but add to that the fact that we all know we have to have landfill sites, but wouldn't eant one next door....
Can of worms ? Or open and shut case ?
He has done the time and he should now be free to seek employment in his chosen profession.
This was discussed in our canteen at some length today, and while I certainly haven't been following the story I was surprised at the number of people who were of the opinion that apologising would go a long way towards people accepting him back in to the game - and that, therefore, him not doing so actually lends some credibility to his claims of innocence.
It reminded me of the old parole board position that you don't release a prisoner who is not repentant... and so those who were wrongly convicted never got out.
Agreed, and maintaining that you are innocent is not a crime.Originally Posted by Captainhowdy
Difficult one.4 clubs have come in for him but the fans of each club have all decided to express their views by online petitions. Dont think he will ever live it down even though he has served his sentence.(Well half of it but that's up to the courts)
I would suggest that no club would ever sign him again.If they did then the banter against him on the pitch would be pretty cruel. And maybe fully deserved.
Rightly or wrongly, the man is toxic. I would be surprised if he is able to continue his chosen profession in this country.
It is perhaps a salutory lesson to those who court fortune and fame, but don't consider that they have any responsibility other than doing what they want to.
As much as he protests his innocence the fact remains he is a convicted rapist, his conviction was upheld at appeal, he is out on licence & on the sex offenders register, if his previous profession were teacher, policeman, dentist, doctor, taxi driver, or indeed a whole host of other professions he would not be able to return to them, football is not one of them BUT the clubs require sponsorship & will a sponsor wish their brand image to be associated with his....
We were also talking about it today... We agreed that he should have the right to work in his profession.
Also isn't prison about serving your time then come out and get on with your life? Is it not illegal to discriminate against him because he's been in prison? I assume it isn't it because it's sex crime? Any lawyers on here know the legalities?
This.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I'd welcome him back to Sheffield United with open arms, like already stated he's done his time and should be allowed to play again. Is his crime any worse than what some other footballers have done?
You raise a very interesting question!
He has, and he is.
If clubs don't wish to take him on then that is another issue.
Doubt very much its illegal to discriminate due to previous criminality, try being an accountant with a fraud conviction & see how many job offers you get...
Last edited by MrSimba; 6th January 2015 at 00:15.
Again a debate which was raised at work today- we all said like most on here that he had served the time in prison so he should be allowed to continue his life.
He can't leave the country to pursue his career abroad so what is he to do?
I'm no lawyer but I bet it isn't as clear cut as that in legal terms.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 6th January 2015 at 00:22.
From the Uk gov website
Criminal convictions
Applicants don’t have to tell you about criminal convictions if they’re spent. You must treat the applicant as if the conviction has not happened, and cannot refuse to employ the person because of their conviction.
There are some areas of employment that are exempt from this rule, eg schools.
His conviction is not yet spent.
His conviction was over 48 months custodial & as such it will never be considered 'spent'
Also
Its a can of worms aint it!Being refused a job
Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where there is nothing you can do.
Although the intention of the ROA was to attempt to make life (and therefore rehabilitation) easier for people with certain types of criminal record, it did not include any provisions regarding the appropriate treatment of all the others. In the intervening years, little or nothing has been done to alter this situation. There is no legal concept of “discrimination on the basis of having a criminal record”, as there is for discrimination on the grounds of age or disability.
Your treatment, therefore, will only create a legal claim if it would do so for someone without a criminal record. Where you are refused a job because of your race, sex, religion, nationality, age, or some other characteristic protected by the Equality Act 2010, then you can bring an action in the ET.
Otherwise, the law, as it stands, permits an employer to recruit whom he wants; it will not question his reasons, or his motives. Refusing to employ someone for having a conviction cannot be the cause of a legal claim, in the same way that an employer cannot be sued for refusing to employ someone because they like Glee; there is no obligation to engage in reasonable or rational decision-making when choosing employees.
Treatment whilst in employment, including dismissal
The position here is essentially the same as in the sections above on treatment based on a spent conviction and recruitment. Having an unspent conviction is not a characteristic afforded legal protection.
Last edited by MrSimba; 6th January 2015 at 00:37.
Ah, didn't realise
The time various convictions take - if ever - to become 'spent'
I for one got this wrong as I thought he would go back to playing for the blunts and it would all gradually blow over.
I think Jessica Ennis renouncing her association with the club didn't help him and may well have been the catalyst for their change of heart.
To me I think he has paid his debt to society and there must be some rehabilitation for offenders.
What other job is he going to be suitable for, getting him back into employment and paying tax should be a priority.
Maybe if they had found a dead man in his swimming pool with wounds to his anus he may have been looked more favorably on.
There seems to be a group of activists that are determined to prevent him getting back into football (note that the petitions are always created by a certain 'individual' - not the fans of the club in question).
Likely whatever he tries these people will try to put a stop to it.
Organised campaigns to hound individuals who have been dealt with by the legal system already aren't a good thing IMO.
Personally I think he's a scum bag who thinks being a pro footballer exempts him from having a normal moral compass, however he's done his jail time so should be free to look for work in his chosen profession.
What I do find interesting is that 30,000 have signed the petition for Oldham not to sign him, I bet Oldham would love 30,000 supporters.
What I do find interesting is that 30,000 have signed the petition for Oldham not to sign him, I bet Oldham would love 30,000 supporters.[/QUOTE]
^^+1 ^^ Your right but thats the way he is going to be viewed at what ever football club decides on him.
There are countless professions that even minor criminal charges mean you can't work.
I say nope to Ched.
A tough call and I can see why clubs are hesitant to sign him. I believe he has served his time and should be able to pursue his career.
I think his reputation in the UK is too poisonous currently and would be better served playing for a foreign club for a few years.
He hasn't served his time yet and isn't allowed out of the country. Read the Independent article above
He was convicted of rape, he has not yet completed his sentence, he has shown no remorse for his actions. His defence (so I understand) is that the victim was a willing participant, yet his actions were hardly honourable that night.
Every offender deserves the chance of rehabilitation, does rehabilitation mean that offender is entitled to pick up their life as if nothing happened and that after the prison sentence there should be no repercussions?
Actions have consequences and I think he is going to find that his actions that night will follow him for quite a while.
We've been here before
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=served
Of course he should be free to seek employment. Just as potential employers should be free to decline to employ a convicted rapist.
Gray
Yes, he should be free to do what he likes as should the football clubs.
Unfortunately though, clubs are being bullied by these internet campaigns against him. Most of those who 'sign' these e-petitions have no interest in football whatsoever and of course sponsors and people like Ennis are happy to jump on the publicity band-wagon.
Don't you think football clubs have a duty of care?
Do you think all professions should be open to freely employ those who've been convicted of crimes?
Just curious.
In general, yes.
Not in the case of teaching, medicine etc where vulnerable people are put at risk (or banking for financial miscreants) but can't see any problem with a football club employing someone like him.
This talk of role models is a load of baloney. Look at the England captain for example.
He is free to pursue his chosen career path, it's just that so far no football club have selected him. I can't say I'm that surprised.
How is he free on licence after serving half his time if he still protests his innocence?
Apparently it bothers some that he has shown no remorse,,,,,,, to be honest if I had been convicted of a crime that I believed myself to be innocent of, I would show bugger all remorse as well, him and his mate humped a slapper in a hotel, she appeared compos mentis enough to leave the hotel to go and pick up a pizza before returning for a session, its been said before he didn't wear a mask, he didn't drag her into an ally way and threaten her with a knife, and his mate was found innocent,,,,,,,no I wasn't at the trial, no I don't know all the facts but the pitch fork and torches brigade are no better informed, for one minute lets put his job aside, think back to when we were that age and how we might have behaved in the same circumstances,
Footballers don't choose to be role models, they choose to be footballers. Others put the labels on them and that is outside their control. Skill with a ball is hardly candidacy for role model status.
Just rereading the thread and I hadn't appreciated that he is still serving his sentence, which requires an even greater level of commitment from any potential employer.
Frankly I do believe his conviction to be flawed, however if in a position to employ him at a football club, I wouldn't while his conviction stands.
Gray
As others suggest he has served his time, but as his job is in the public eye (probably one downside to multiple upsides) surely it's clear that any wrong will be aired in the public domain, these people should act accordingly. People are destroyed for tweets never mind rape!
Being a convicted rapist (justified or not) has a knock on effect on his ability to do his job (making his employer money) if for no other reason than reaction from those in the stands and backlash from supporters.
He would have to be a bloody good player for me (if I ran a club) to take the risk.
What a horrible, toxic thread this is. I'm shocked and saddened at some of the views expressed and believe the thread shows this fine forum in a very poor light.
He's a convicted rapist who hasn't yet finished serving his sentence. Thankfully some clubs still have integrity and won't employ him. Maybe he should disappear from football until his 5 year sentence is complete.
But whatever you (we) might think, he WAS convicted. That means in the eyes of the law he's guilty. Everything else stems from there...
Unfortunately football clubs couldn't give a monkeys what their fans think but it's a different matter when it comes to what their sponsors think.
He says he is innocent, the case may yet go to retrial, if at the retrial he is indeed pronounced innocent where will your moral indignation take you next?
What annoys me is that if he was a bank robber and he came out of prison and no one would employ him he would go back to being a bank robber. Obviously this isn't the case being a convicted rapist but the point is he's done his porridge probably in the prime of his football career. Ok he's still denying it, rightly or wrongly he can protest his innocence if he feels he has been wronged. The case was not open and shut it seems the girl had sex with him and his mate and it wouldn't be the first time a girl sleeps with a footballer and crys rape. He has a beautiful girlfriend and I'm sure he could have any girl he wanted in the nightclub on the night in question. I'm all for him playing football again, paying his taxes etc. as others have said the *beast* marlin king who was a vile woman beater was allowed to play which for the life of me I can't work out how he was allowed to play on and Evans isn't?
I've always thought this conviction was a bit dodgy... Slapper goes to a hotel room for a threesome with two fit young blokes after an evening on the lash... all is well and good until she decides next day that just one of them (the footballer.... the one with money, by coincidence) wasn't so welcome after all. So off she trots, makes a complaint and the machinery starts... meantime she is texting her pal about how she'll buy them both Mini Coopers when she gets her payout.
Meantime said footballer maintains that she was well up for it and says she is just trying it on to get a payout. Jury doesn't believe him and down he goes. The system does its work and spits him out at the other end under licence which imposes certain restrictions on movement etc. Footballer tries to get another job but finds that potential employers, although initially keen, are under pressure from outside influences not to take him on. Footballer, still protesting his innocence, is currently still trying to get a job. Finding no job opportuntities in the UK the footballer would like to get a job abroad (and probably could quite easily) but the terms of his release don't allow that.
Those are the facts. Make of them what you will. Like a previous poster, I wasn't in the court room when the case was heard so there is obviously more to it than this but there's enough there to make me wonder if there's not an agenda somewhere. For example I would love to see a breakdown of the 30,000 people who supposedly complained to Oldham Athletic about their interest in the player.... I rather suspect that a lot of them will be supporters of the various pressure groups that have been quite vocal on the issue, not the genuine customers of the business (i.e. fans of the club) who do not number 30,000 in total. I also wonder if all those people would be quite so interested if Ched Evans were a bricklayer.... would all those very concerned people be quite so concerned if Wimpey offered him a job? Would they be making such a fuss if that were the case?
Just my 2p worth.
Rob
No they're not - they're how you're interpreting them. The 'goes to the hotel for a threesome' isn't fact at all is it.
My 'interpretation' is completely different. Not saying mine is right yet I wouldn't try and pass it as fact
What gets me in all this, and its been evident in here is that some people say 'who didn't do things like this when we were younger' or words to that effect. I can categorically say I didn't. Ever. And many many lads with morals didn't either.
I personally think he should hang on now till the appeal. If someone signs him you can guarantee an opponent will go for him.
I’m with many, in that I think the conviction is flawed.
However, the system we subscribe to convicted him and as far as we are concerned, it has been proven he is guilty.
Accordingly, many are asking for the potential employer to act in such a way which supports his conviction.
Some of you need to understand, this moaning is fine, but do it after a successful appeal. At present, he forced himself on a girl, who didn’t want to partake in sex. He’s a rapist.
Wether he's innocent or not, he is currently a convicted rapist. Whilst he has a right to seek employment, the clubs have a right to choose to employment. As well as having to play the game, players are involved in many off field stuff such as hospital visits, school visits and general stuff in the community. They also have female football teams and female staff (including physics and medical staff). If I was a club I'd take more than his playing ability into account before I employed a convicted rapist.
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