This venerable old chap was found in a house clearance, hiding away in an old Timex box!
The silver case is well marked inside, hallmarks, W&D, Rolex (with underscore) etc. Repair/service marks too. The movement is an 'Elvira' with Geneva stripes, 15 jewels which, after a gentle wind fired up and is ticking away happily and keeping time. The dial has that 'wavy' thing going on, and it has lovely blue steel hands. Not a bad size either at 34mm without crown and could be quite wearable.
So, is it, and could it, be described as a 'Rolex Trench Watch'? This period of watch is out of my comfort zone so any info would be very helpful. A ball park value would also be most welcome.
Enjoy
C'mon lads, I'm struggling here!
May as well point out the watch ain't mine, it is going into auction, apparently with the deceased owners WW1 medals and service records.
I am wondering if it can be described as a Rolex, seeing as around the teens/twentys, Rolex/W&D was being formed using and acquiring other company's movements in Rolex W&D marked cases?
Check your PMs...
I have, Thanks. The real nub of my question is can the watch be correctly listed in an auction catalogue as a 'Rolex'? There are wordy nuances with these things, as the case is marked Rolex but the movement is by another maker? Don't want Trading Standards getting all frothy, that's all!
Well I would say its a Rolex the case is stamped as such and the movement name "Elvira" was a registered trade mark used by Rolex in the early days of the company and first registered in 1909 one year after the Rolex name but they also used many other names as well, such as the well know Marconi or Unicorn. I think the correct description of the watch would be " Elvira Rolex " anybody looking for or collecting such watches would know what it is straight away and the description would not be deceiving anyone else. Rolex movements where outsourced anyway from various manufactures and appear with various names at this time in much the same way manufactures buy in 7750's and mark these with various names todayOriginally Posted by bongo
The photos you have shown also show it has London import marks for 1915
Last edited by wls1971; 31st October 2014 at 10:52. Reason: hallmark information added
The whole era of Rolex trench watches is a difficult area and, from the little watching that I've done, prices are all over the shop - anything from £150 on Ebay to several thousand from the usual suspects in the Burlington arcade (inclusive of blatant redials etc). It's already been stated above that Elvira was a name used by Rolex, like Marconi, Unicorn etc, and I can't really work out whether you'd call Elvira a sub-brand (like Tudor) or just a movement supplier. My tendency (based on not very much) is towards the latter and I think calling it a Rolex trench watch wouldn't be the most mortal of sins. I get the impression that the collectors market is small for these so I don't think you'd be pulling the wool over many eyes - having said that, it's probably a good year to be selling a WWI watch.
Google throws up a couple of links - this thread has already made it to the 2nd page so don't get too excited. There's a suggestion here that Wilsdorf registered the Elvira name in 1909 but no attribution.
http://www.timekeeperforum.com/forum.../elvira.21234/
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=38815
http://www.time-repairs.com/watchrep...exInfoPage.htm
Various places on the web refer to James Dowling as a source on the subject. If I were you I would seek out whatever Dowling has written about Elvira and quote that - there must be someone on here with the book which, according to the West Repairs link, is "Copyright 1996/2000 James M. Dowling & Jeffrey P. Hess, from 'The Best of Times Rolex Wristwatches', published by Schiffer Publishing Limited"
Sold Listings on Ebay on "Rolex Trench Watch" is probably the most reliable guide price. If you've got some evidence to suggest that yours has been in continuous ownership, rather than being a franken put-together, this has to help the price, I would have thought. The other person you could have a word with is David Boettcher - in fact I've just had a look at his site and he offers valuations but at a charge of £120. A new strap and buckle together with a very light polish might also help the price but I wouldn't do too much to it.
http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/
I'd appreciate a headsup when the auction happens - one of these has been on my list for a while though the timing will probably, as usual, be inconvenient.
Edit: Having said the bit above I note that Mikrolisk has the precise date by Wilsdorf of registration for the Elvira brand - 19.10.1909
http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?sit...ll#sucheMarker
I think this is very true I attend and also follow auctions avidly online and at the moment the general trend for trench watches which are hallmarked between 1914-1918 is that prices are rising I can see this watch fetching around £200-300 mark in a good sale with a full description on its own.
But as a complete package medals service records it could do far more
Excellent blog article here with some quotes from Hans Wilsdorf himself. Some of these explain, in part, why some watches of this period are marked Rolex and some are not.
http://rolexblog.blogspot.co.uk/2010...and-rolex.html
Thanks for all that lads, really helpful. 'Rolex/Elvira Trench Watch c1915' it is then. I'll let any interested parties know when the auction is. Sadly it's not mine, I hope one of us here lands it.
Any news on auction house and date?
Thanks for the thread :-)
Auction's this Friday.......Lot #1522. Not going for it myself but feel free to have a pop......
http://auctions.durrants.com/auction...age=11&aid=203
Lot 1541 (the Kriegsmarine wall clock) is mine btw.
£180, and it was working!!!
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