Zeno Explorer Miyota movement - advice requested re handwind and time setting

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Hi Zeno gurus,
I've put this in Watch Talk rather than the Official Zeno forum as it might get more exposure.

I advertised my Miyota powered Explorer on SC at the weekend and it sold within minutes. The buyer received it Tuesday and soon PM'd me to say that he thought the time setting mode was disengaging and requested a refund (which I sent).

I suggested to him that he might not be aware that, unlike many Seikos, there is a handwinding mode one click out from the screw-down. He tried it but is convinced that the handwind is disengaging.

I got the watch back a few minutes ago and it feels like it did when I sold it. It seems to me that you have to unscrew the crown and then then give it a dleiberate 'double-click' out to time-setting and then carefully click it back one click to handwind it. If you aren't positive in the double click out the winder seems to be in 'no man's land' between time-set and hand-wind, and I think this is what the buyer felt.

My only other experience of Miyota movements is of a replacement put into my Promaster 8200 by the venerable Twikkersdude, and this of course doesn't have a screw down crown but does have day and date. Twikkers thought they were great to work on but I always feel the date change feels a little'coarse'.

So, Oh Wise Ones, what is normal for an Explorer? Does mine have a problem, or is it normal to need to make deliberate 'clicks'?

Your opinions very welcome

Graham

[markrlondon]

I got the watch back a few minutes ago and it feels like it did when I sold it. It seems to me that you have to unscrew the crown and then then give it a dleiberate 'double-click' out to time-setting

This sounds normal for a Miyota 8215 to me. I have a couple of watches with 8215s.

(1) With crown unscrewed but not pulled out, you can hand wind it.
(2) Pull crown out to first click and you can set the date.
(3) Pull crown out to second click and you can set the time.

and then carefully click it back one click to handwind it.

The click back in to handwinding position from time setting position is actually two clicks but they tend to go in at once so that they are not distinguishable.

If you aren't positive in the double click out the winder seems to be in 'no man's land' between time-set and hand-wind

The Zeno Explorer doesn't have a date does it, but the 8215 movement does have a date. So this single click between hand wind and time set is the date setting position.

Instructions here: http://www.citizen.co.jp/miyota_mvt/..._8215_821A.pdf

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Many thanks for that detailed response, Mark, it was very reassuring. Feel confident in offering the watch for sale again (to the guy who read this thread and PM'd me again!).

In my post on SC I mentioned that I missed not having the date window on the Explorer, but my Promaster has that plus day. Only prob there is the dial lume is excellent, but that on the hands is pretty poor. (Note to self - get it done!)

Cheered up my day, thanks again!
Graham