Reply With QuoteGood post!
IMVHO would be Omega purchasers are exactly who Tudor are aiming for with the UK re-release
Being a lover of the dive watch I've admired from afar the Tudor Black Bay and Pelagos since their respective launches. They're significantly out of my price range in terms of ownership and I'd not even had the opportunity to see them in the flesh until I stumbled across the new Tudor display in Goldsmiths in Newcastle yesterday.
I did breifly have a flirtation with a 1980s blue dial diver in my time here but not seen the current crop.
There are two things that struck me yesterday; they are both fantastic watches and (most surprisingly) they're very different from each other and I hadn't expected that.
The Pelagos is, for want of a better phrase, a bit of a beast. It's super-solid, long and tall. The dial and hands really impressed me; matt, well defined and beautifully proportioned. It works so well for me.
The Black Bay (and it's blue brother) is much more refined; sleeker, thinner hands and indices, beautifully constructed and just stunning as a whole.
I obviously (as we all would) began to think about which one I'd buy if I had the money and I will have to say that I'd find that really difficult but that I think I have a winner. The Pelagos.
Why? Because it just feels more like a dive watch should feel. That takes nothing away from the Black Bay at all, it's merely a personal preference.
What I do struggle with is the price differential between both of these and the Rolex divers. At £2850 for either they seem to represent much better value than say a Sub for more than double. And considering they're priced similarly to the Omega SMPs (which I have owned a couple of so can compare directly) I couldn't imagine buying an Omega over either of the Tudors any day of the week.
So a very impressive first experience of these two mighty efforts. Congratulations to all who own them.
David
Good post!
IMVHO would be Omega purchasers are exactly who Tudor are aiming for with the UK re-release
Hi there. I checked out the Tudor window display in Fraser Hart, Princes Street just this morning. They seem to have dumped their Zenith stock in favour of Tudor. Perhaps I'd feel a little differently if I'd had the opportunity to actually handle some of the watches, but I just felt a little indifferent about them.
Yes, the Pelagos is pitched at near enough the same price as the Seamaster Professional, but you can normally get a discount on the latter. Not sure if they'd chip anything off the Tudor price. And I suspect that in terms of accuracy the Omega will beat the Pelagos any day of the week.
If I was in the market for a new watch I'd sooner go for Omega over Tudor.
Me too. Do you want the poor man's Rolex or the full fat Omega?Originally Posted by seabiscuit
[Note: I'm not disrespecting Tudor, I'm just stating the market position Tudor was originally intended to fill when the brand was created!]
But it's not any more, though - it hasn't make copies of Rolex designs for years, and is establishing itself as an mid-market brand, an alternative to the usual brands, only with a very well-known (and well-funded) parent company. However it is a pretty crowded market filled with brands all trying to increase volume and margin indefinitely. "Poormans Rolex" is what drummed Tudor out of the UK and US markets in the first place, and this continued line of thinking will see them fail again. Not that Tudor cares, it does much better elsewhere anyway.
Last edited by andrew; 22nd September 2014 at 14:11.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
for a counter point... I'd rather have a Tudor.
imo the styling's nicer, particularly the hands, I prefer the look of the BB/P bracelet over the SMP & I like a bracelet to offer micro adjust, something the P does with aplomb and the SMP doesn't offer at all. Also (imo) the HEV is far more nicely executed on the P than the SMP (or PO for that matter)
Obviously YMMV!
Would there really be much in it? I don't know too much about these models but I'd have imagined they'd be about the same in this regard...?
And I guess that's the decision Tudor wants people to consider by placing itself in that price bracket. I don't see Tudor as poor man's Rolex any more than I see Omega as the same. You're probably buying an Omega or another brand because you can't afford a Rolex so by default any dive watch that's not a Rolex and is cheaper than a Rolex is a poor man's Rolex.
David
Interested to know why you would think that - any reasoning/experience?
I have to say every time I see the Pelagos in person, I always think what a well made watch it is. You can see the qulaity of the case construction and dial when you get up close. Top quality watch.
Tudor all the way for me, especially over Rolex and Omega.
Just seen the advertisement on the back of the Sunday Times magazine for the Tudors. Very interesting that they mention their heritage in dive watches and no mention of Rolex. I would imagine that more than 95% of the people seeing the advert will have no idea of the connection. I would have thought it was useful to include it but Rolex are really the masters of watch marketing and they will certainly know best. To me though they will always be an interesting watch but still a poor man's Rolex. I bet they never release a chronometer version of a Tudor.
On your first point - exactly.
So that makes your second point somewhat moot.
I would say you aren't really a watch person if you see a perfectly good product in its own right - which the Tudor is - as a 'poor man's' version. What does it matter? That it doesn't satisfy one's own insecurity that it may not be the 'real deal'?
Yet if they do, the average consumer will just think
They can't win ;). I was surprised they came back at all, and wouldn't be surprised if they go away again, having failed to prise people out of their BMWs and Audis. (Or Omegas, Barbours, Apples, Rolexes, whatever)To me though they will always be an interesting watch but still a poor man's Rolex.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Errm have to say I don't agree with your reasoning, given that Rolex don't have a direct competitor (in looks or finish) to either the Black Bay or Pelagos
I see where you're coming from in terms of not being able to make a direct comparison between watches however I was trying to say that I don't consider Tudor to be a poor man's Rolex. It's that kind of attitude that contributed to them not being the success they really ought to have been on these shores.
What I was trying to say is this; if you want a Rolex diver and you can afford one you're probably going to buy one. If you like divers and can't afford a Rolex then you're probably/possibly going to look at other brand such as Omega and / or Tudor. Therefore you're too poor to buy a Rolex, making your diver potentially a poor man's Rolex.
I don't agree with that statement obviously, I was trying to illustrate a point. I'd love a Sea Dweller but will never be able to afford one. I also love the Pelagos but will never be able to afford one. I love my Seiko 6309 but I don't see it as a poor man's Rolex or Tudor.
Make sense?
Completely agree. My Seiko 6309 is the 'real-deal', trust me, it's fantastic. Are we really saying that the Pelagos with an RRP of £2850 isn't the real-deal? The 'real-deal' is subjective but I guess there will always be those who only regard Rolex as the real-deal.
Sad really.
north of £2500 for a watch, isn't a poor man's anything!
Didn't popular wisdom lay Tudor's original UK demise squarely at the feet of 0% Rolexes?
Looking at Tudor's website I'm struck by 2 things, firstly it's sh*t & secondly it appears to aimed at people younger than me. Perhaps that's who tudor are trying to appeal too (I mean younger people, not people who like crap websites)
I'm thinking that the Co-axial movement will out-perform the ETA movement. Mind you, I don't know what grade movement Tudor put in. For the money they're asking I'd want a top grade one that has been regulated to within an inch of its very existence.
I've come across posts from Pelagos owners elsewhere referring to performance outside of COSC standard.
I'm also thinking that the Seiko MM300 looks something of a bargain when compared with the cost of the Pelagos and Black Bay.
I'm not bashing Tudor and it's good to see the brand returning to these shores. And if others around here take the plunge and post good reviews then I'll acknowledge that I was talking tosh.
Perhaps the best way for Tudor to succeed is to distance themselves from the Rolex brand- to avoid being seen as the poor mans Rolex.
With the new model range I see this as less of a problem than before when the range looked a lot more ( for want of a better word - Rolexy- a lot of the models looked similar across both ranges- almost Rolex lite)
After all- you don't look at a SEAT driver as a man who couldnt afford an Audi?
As a Rolex owner I would have no problem wearing a Black Bay and have it in mind as the next purchase
Sure sort of, over the years I've had a few Rolex and indeed I still have the 1st one I bought, though looks like I'll be joining the Pelagos club sometime soon as like you I don't consider them a poor mans anything.
I think Tudor are aiming at a younger market, the tie in with Ducati, stylistic colours, ceramic cases etc - IMPO Rolex is about enduring designs & Tudor seems to be about funky, fresh and happening!!!!
Tudor have as you say, definitely sought to distance themselves from looking like Rolexes
This.
I can only go by a sample size of one of each but my Omega Co-axial is more accurate than my Rolex in all 4 positions I've tried and keeps better time if both are left on a watch winder as well.
Omega is a top Swatch brand and is IMHO in every way as good as Rolex particularly if similar models are compared back to back. They just happen to be cheaper to buy, that's all.
My findings and thoughts too.
No idea how I'll feel about them relative to Seamasters (I'm not that keen on them really), but I'm looking forward to seeing these watches in person after all the excitement (often from people, it seems, who've as much experience with them as me) about the Pelagos, especially.
I'd like a good Titanium diver, but the Pelagos doesn't excite me in photos, maybe it will on the wrist?
M.
So by that thinking is a Rolex a poor mans Audemars Piguet and a Audemars Piguet a poormans Hublot?
I had a cheese sandwich at lunch was that a poormans BLT?
I can ignore the "poor man's Rolex" insult because Tudor makes fantastic watches. I sold my Rolex GMT a few years ago because it never got worn - the Tudor snowflake was getting the wrist time. I don't miss the GMT.
I've owned 5 Tudors, 4 subs and a chronograph. If I must choose a diver between Tudor and Omega - and I did - then Tudor wins for me. I still have a snowflake sub but have sold off a couple of Seamasters with no regret. I will pick up a BB at some point, probably the red bezel version since I really like that dial.
If I must choose a chronograph between Tudor and Omega (and even Rolex) then Omega wins every time for me. The Tudor chrono with its fat 7750 is long gone and not missed and the newer ones have a DD module in them. The Speedmaster Pro is damn near perfect for me - it must be because I have 2 of them and still want another.
My Seamaster (ETA 2892 derived movement) is also more accurate than my Rolex and has been since they were both serviced within the last year. Prior to service the Sub was more accurate than the Omega. More to do with the care taken with regulation by the service centre than anything else I think.
I'm not sure that's the case - I think these days many people are buying the Omega because they genuinely don't want the Rolex, regardless of whether they can afford it. Not being a Rolex is one of Omega's biggest selling points.
AP a poor man's HUBLOT?!? I'm pretty sure AP owners are not saving up for Hublot.
As for the Tudor range, after seeing plenty of nice pictures online, the actual watches left me feeling a bit disappointed. There was a slightly oversimplified, cartoonish quality running through parts of the range, including the enormous Pelagos. The blue black bay looked more refined, and possibly the most wearable, but they're not for me. The Rolex seem like 'real' watches, for better or worse they are what they are. Some of the Tudors look like a designer's modern take on a heritage concept, with a meta twist. There's a kind of invisible inverted commas hanging around the Pelagos, as if it's saying "diving watch", rather than just getting on with being one. I'll pass.
I have tried on the Pelagos and the Black Bay and I think I would rather have a Seiko MM600 over either of them. Possibly in place of an Omega as well!
I think the Pelagos is a great watch in its own right, forget about all this poor mans Rolex crap.
I went in to the Leeds Rolex boutique on Saturday and Sunday last and was pretty impressed by the blue Heritage Chrono, but a bit underwhelmed by the Pelagos.
I found myself in Sheffield with a few hours to kill today so visited Goldsmith's in Meadowhall to give the Pelagos another look over. This time I was really blow away by how distinctive the watch is and so much better for the blank canvass design and how they've produced a really modern take on a diver's watch. I preferred it on the rubber band and to be honest, I nearly came away with one but the fear factor of my wife's reaction held me back a bit.
Luckily, I'm in York on Friday so might give Faser Hart a visit whilst I'm there...
I don't get the fuss about the black bay. I've tried on both versions.
The red has a white lime pip in the insert while the rest of the lime has a vintage color. Big miss.
the case has sharp edges all over making it uncomfortable to wear, the bezel didn't align, and the crown action felt bad.
While I share your opinion regarding the crown action, the bezel alligns and operates more precise than on the MM300. Also, the bracelet is miles ahead when compared to Omega in terms of finishing, fitment and clasp. I should mention I have a PO 8500 and have enjoyed owning a Marinemaster 300.
Kind regards,
Catalin
Last edited by Inq24; 22nd September 2014 at 20:53.
Yes, it's the version Tudor useIs this the ETA 2824?
the standard version of the movement looks like this
P1020506 by adzman_808, on Flickr
Note the removal of fine adjust screw!
I have handled both Black Bay's on strap and bracelet. All four bezels aligned perfectly and all had crowns that functioned as smooth a silk. I did handle one that had probably been handled by dozens of other people and the crown action was not perfect on it. All it takes is one person to say handle a watch badly for other people handling the watch to perceive the watch differently. I am not saying that was the case with you but it can happen.
We all have different shaped wrists and what may be comfortable for one person may not be for another.
Last edited by j111dja; 22nd September 2014 at 22:31.
That's what I thought when I tried on the Pelagos a couple of days ago, but I really liked that cartoonish quality. The watch itself felt incredibly well made, and the titanium case and bracelet though light, looked extremely well machined. The bezel had a nice solid click, but I forgot to check out the lume.
I've been waiting to try on the Pelagos for ages, but during that time have bought a Planet Ocean 2500 black/white, which I think looks great. But now not sure whether to sell the PO to get the Pelagos :-/
Edit: the crown didn't feel that great though, which surprised me.
Last edited by trisdg; 23rd September 2014 at 09:05.
Tried on a Pelagos in Watches of Switzerland today, and it was very nice! Not as light as I was afraid it might be. However, I'd still rather put the money towards a Rolex, just because I prefer the designs.
Hmmm assuming you want to be the sort of person who buys a Rolex ... a lot of people (myself included) wouldn't touch a Rolex with a barge pole ... down to their image, or rather the image associated with many of their owners. Rather like BMW (.... I'll get my coat now).
Present company excluded of course ....
Same for me, but with Omega. Sauce for the goose and all that ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I view Tudor as an affordable option from the Rolex house for those with an income that facilitates purchasing. Whilst everyone aspires to have more than they can afford the reality is that different levels of income dictate the reality. In that price bracket there is no better bang for buck watch and they should not attract any criticism whatsoever nor should they be referred to as a poor mans version. Many of the people I deal with could well think that a steel watch of any description is a poor mans version but I doubt they are that way.
So back to the plot, Tudor, superb.
RIAC
I think with the Pelagos, looks are subjective and it may not be to everyone's taste but i think the quality of construction is very high for a watch in that price range. The bezel action is one of the best i've felt on any watch.
I've owned one for 9 months. I've also owned Seamasters and a PO so can comment since they've be compared occasionally on the thread.
It's an exceptional watch in every department. The photos on this thread do it no justice at all and it is only by wearing it for more than a few minutes that these qualities become apparent, the styling charm, the size fit perfectly, the lume challenge Seiko, the weight and feel have a solidity and robustness not normally associated with titanium, and the metal adopt a warm soft hue.
Poor man's Rolex or thinking man's watch? Neither. A personal choice and a watch which I suspect has been crafted and designed using much of the mastery from Rolex.
I own two Tudor's with this movement and both are running to +1 second a day. Pretty good.Yes, it's the version Tudor use
the standard version of the movement looks like this
P1020506 by adzman_808, on Flickr
Note the removal of fine adjust screw!
My old Tudor was plus 2 day, after 10 years with no service!
I posted the pic becuase sooner or later someone was likely to chime in with a 'eta movement in a £2k watch' comment and it shows the cosmetic difference and one of the mods that Tudor make to the movement
Well said, Kerry...
I've had my Black Bay (on leather) for a good few weeks now and after my Zenith is the most comfy watch I own. Also the bezel lines up perfectly and the crown action is superb.
No complaints whatsoever from me.
I may be in the minority but I like the older tudors especially their version of the sub
^^^This^^^
Just tried on a blue Black Bay, a grey sub-dialed HC and a Pelagos, all on bracelets. I've had a play with the latter two before and then, as now, preferred the HC, there's little doubt that the Pelagos is a cracking watch however it didn't put its hands down my pants and give me a tickle, so to speak. I was extremely taken with the BB, much more than I was expecting to be honest, a truly lovely looking watch.
Quality looked and felt great, I was wearing my GS for reference and thought that all 3 Tudors compared well when keeping in mind their price points, though the BB did have sharp edges on the tips of the lugs which I thought let the side down, especially so because the HC had lightly shaved tips resolving the issue. My bezel fit and action benchmark is my Sinn UX, I thought the BB's action to be second only to that and certainly better than my MM300 with the fit to be better than both.
I was in Chelmsford's branch of Fraser Hart, they were polite and friendly though the assistant that was with me didn't demonstrate any real knowledge of the brand or of the watches, I'm not even sure that she knew that the Pelagos was titanium! There was also no mention of Rolex until I mentioned the link, I got the impression that Rolex wasn't to be spoken of unless asked about, I have no issue with that and agree that the watches stand up without any supporting crutch.
Had my pelagos for almost two years now. Don't expect it to blow you out the water. It's understated, under the radar, and forgettable on the wrist. It's comfy, utilitarian and does exactly what they say it will do, and do it well. I have zero complaints about mine. But it's not haute horology it's just a damn good titanium diver that fits with most situations.
I've only ever seen one other in the flesh.
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