Paypal chargeback advice !!

[markrlondon]

Since that email I've had no emails but I'm going to find the email tracking software I used to have that secretly attaches itself to mail and tells me if they have been read and where.

This won't do anything useful to anyone with a normally configured modern mail client. Such mail clients should not execute JavaScript or retrieve remote tracking images without first asking the reader to allow it.

What software did you use?

[markrlondon]

The PayPal fees are a pain but they aren't like a tax plucked from thin air by a fickle government. You buy a very good service from them. PayPal would contest the charge back and with the weight of evidence they would win. Even if the charge back was upheld, PayPal would reimburse their customer from their own funds.

I agree that PayPal fees do pay for a useful service but, as I said before, that surely is separate and in addition to disputing chargebacks. As you say, PayPal protection offers protection even where a chargeback is upheld. In this case, however, it seems that PayPal did not even dispute the chargeback even though they could have done with the evidence provided, even though there was no PayPal protection in place in this case.

In earlier messages I said that I thought it was now down to contacting the French police, British police, French courts, or debt collectors, and I expect it will still come to that, but it does seem to me that it is still worth trying to put pressure on PayPal to actually dispute the chargeback. There is no need whatsoever for PayPal's extra level of protection to be in place for them to actually dispute the chargebacks (as I say, their own additional protection service on the one hand and disputing chargebacks with evidence provided by their customer on the other hand are, or should be, separate things entirely).

Paypal may have done nothing about it but why should they you can't expect a service when you haven't paid for it.

Because they provide the service. Whilst PayPal also provide their own additional level of protection for a fee, this does not in my opinion absolve them as a payment provider of the reasonable responsibility of disputing chargebacks with evidence provided by the customer on their gift service. They run the service and so this is naturally and necessarily part and parcel of it, even where the extra fee for PayPal additional protection has not been paid.

Indeed, there seems to be little doubt that PayPal can and do dispute chargebacks with evidence provided by their customer even using their gift service. The question to my mind and which I would be forcefully pursuing in blackie's position is why haven't they done so in this case despite being provided with good (even if not conclusive on its own) evidence.

[blackie]

Ah found it
Read notify

[markrlondon]

Ah found it
Read notify

Thanks.

I also meant to reply to this before:

I've now filled in the online fraud information that was kindly put on this thread.
Even after filling this in do I also need to call the police or will they guide me to that site ?

If that is the Action Fraud website then as I understand it there is no guarantee of anything happening. You might be contacted for more information or you might not.

As it says before you fill in the form:

Please be aware that each report cannot be investigated individually, although the information you provide will aid the police in building up a national picture of fraud.

It's been discussed previously on this forum. It's probably not all that useful for you as an individual, sadly.



** edit **
I just tested readnotify.com and as I suspected it won't do anything with a normally configured, modern mail client, without the active intervention of the recipient. What this means in practice is that if you do get a response via readnotify (because the recipient chose to let his mail client respond) then that is useful but a lack of response (which is more than likely) tells you nothing.

I'll post some additional comments on how ReadNotify works in a thread elsewhere and add a link here. Now done: http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...tify-com-works

[Michael 38]

My Mrss sister lives in France and says a lot of things work completely differently to how they do here hopefully the police also as the UK police only seen to do something if a crime has been committed against a big company or a rich individual

[Mitch]

I think these exhortations to get the Police involved are going to prove futile.

Which country has the crime been committed in for a start?

Probably the presumption would be made that it was the UK, as that is where the loss is. So it is down to the UK police force to investigate. This is not a 'serious' crime therefore there is no real question of cross border cooperation. Therefore you give your information and evidence to the police and if they wanted to investigate, the next major step would be to interview the suspect.

How is this going to happen? You can rule out cross border cooperation as the alleged crime is in no way serious enough. Therefore, unless the said suspect volunteers to come to the UK to be interviewed, nothing further is going to happen. No question of an international arrest warrant being issued, not serious enough and the alleged criminality is far from being positively established.

It looks like you are going to have to eat this one and be a little less trusting of strangers in future, especially ones that live outside the jurisdiction of the UK.





Mitch

[blackie]

Well ..............


Its been a while but our mate has surfaced again.

I got a mate to email him & say he had found an old A112 Abarth in a barn & would he be interested. Been a few weeks but he has replied from the same email that he used to email me saying hes been away on holiday & would be interested in seeing pics of the car.

Hmmmmm..What to do next ?

[Onelasttime]

Jesus wept! What a saga. I use PP Gift all the time because I thought it was safer than risking some scrote doing a chargeback within 90 days claiming the watch was broke or something, but I'd never taken into consideration the credit card angle.

I would lure to him to a nice secluded field in France on the pretence of showing him a lovely A112, and then 'politely' ask for your money back.

Failing that, it's got to be worth a trip over there to surprise him on his doorstep, armed with all the document evidence, and ask him to accompany you to the local Gendarmerie.

Man, I wish you luck, I really do – this thread has wound me up.

[seikokiller]

To be honest, I'd be tempted to just show up at his house with a couple of my scariest mates, and take my watch back.

What's he going to do, call the police? He's a serial fraudster from the sounds of it, and you have evidence to that effect, which you can make clear to him to his face.

[Skool]

To be honest, I'd be tempted to just show up at his house with a couple of my scariest mates, and take my watch back.

What's he going to do, call the police? He's a serial fraudster from the sounds of it, and you have evidence to that effect, which you can make clear to him to his face.

Would you really be able to convince your friends to travel to France with you In the hope of finding the fraudster? Doesn't seem very practical and there's a good chance he won't be around and you'd be wasting everyone's time.

I'd just write it off and put it down to experience.

[Onelasttime]

Would you really be able to convince your friends to travel to France with you In the hope of finding the fraudster? Doesn't seem very practical and there's a good chance he won't be around and you'd be wasting everyone's time.

I'd just write it off and put it down to experience.

Well he hasn't even changed his email address so I'd hazard a bet he still lives In the same house the OP alluded to earlier.

[seikokiller]

Would you really be able to convince your friends to travel to France with you In the hope of finding the fraudster?

Yes.

[Foxy100]

In France you're guilty until you prove you're not. I wonder if it's worth filing a report with the chap's local police?

[blackie]

UPDATE . WELL WELL WELL.

Sorry to trawl this from the depths gents but our mate Vincent is indeed alive and well. AND A SCAMMER.

You may recall the initial deal which apparently was a scam as Vincent had his ID stolen hence the loss of watch and cash.

WELL.

Yesterday I received a fbpm from a good friend in Canada that frequents a French watch group. He put on his very nice Monnin to show the group. Our mate Vincent replied with a Monnin that he himself owns.
Now that may all seem above board which indeed it is but if you recall the ALLEGED SCAMMER sent me pics of the watch to say he was very happy with it and had put it on a nice bracelet. See pics below from the original email which I still have if anyone wants to verify it

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[blackie]

Here is the post and reply.

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[blackie]

Now I messaged Jeff and said it's a shame that he was wearing a shirt. Jeff did a bit of FB digging and sent me these

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[blackie]

With a bit of jiggling and merging I came up with some pics. As you can see the pics don't lie and I doubt the scammer stole his beauty spots as part of the scam. Our man Vincent de Fresquet is a lying arse.

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[blackie]

He did actually reply with a load of paperwork which quite frankly may as well be shitroll. Anyone can Rob their own house and get a crime report for the insurance. So what now. As he is a respected vintage car and watch professional I took it upon myself to start with the vintage Yema forum . The Admin was very helpful and I messaged him all the info for his blessing before posting. I will now proceed to the A112 forum where he is highly active. Foxy & Bootsy have been very kind bit must remain impartial but will no doubt have a few words.
It's taken 4 years and I still haven't my watch or cash but by God was it good yesterday

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[Possu]

Glad to see it's starting to come back to bite him in his a**e.

[Christian]

He’s probably investigating mole removal options right now.

[Possu]

A wee bet ironic I think

[200mwaterresistant]

Epic thread. Need the next episode ASAP!

[boring_sandwich]

I have just read all the posts right back to the start, how shocking.

[blackie]

Hi Everyone. Please read here. He's not happy.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/553067...19218328205899

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[raptor]

His fb account is open to all
Shall we?

[Possu]

His fb account is open to all
Shall we?

I suggest waiting until David has had the chance to spread the message in more places. Once his campaign is near completion would be a better time.

[Christian]

Can I get this one clear in my head....

This guy buys watches and pays through paypal. He then posts back pictures to show receipt and then claims someone else hacked his account and bought the watch? He is then caught because he posted pictures of his other watches with clearly the same wrist as was pictured in your replies?

This guy is a not only a scumbag but also a complete imbécile.

[Dave+63]

He’d probably forgotten about it having long since thought he’d hit sway with it.
Let’s hope the scumbag gets what he deserves!

[Omegamanic]

Complete scum!

Is there no way to file a case against him in some way?

But you are doing the right the right thing by exposing him.

[stefmcd]

Just brilliant perseverance and detective work. Make sure his orifices are sore by the time you've finished.

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[ajw232]

Complete scum!

Is there no way to file a case against him in some way?

But you are doing the right the right thing by exposing him.

If the paperwork is legit and he did file with the police as part of the scam the information and photos could be forwarded on to the police station mentioned on the uploaded documents. I imagine the likelihood of them doing anything is slim though although if they did I'm sure they would look seriously upon this fraud.

[Redwolf]

What a numpty, keep up the good work mate.

[blackie]

Thanks to good friend Andy Ogg. He has found 2 more feedback of folk who he has scammed

I have found them on eBay and sent them the link. I've asked them to join and leave their comments

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[stefmcd]

Thanks to good friend Andy Ogg. He has found 2 more feedback of folk who he has scammed

I have found them on eBay and sent them the link. I've asked them to join and leave their comments

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Love this tenacity in the cause of justice!

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[blackie]

A dish best served and all that. In my eyes it's a public service that needs to be addressed.

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[blackie]

Oops....

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[JasonM]

Good man, keep up the pressure.

[blackie]

I shouldn't laugh but I did

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[johny]

vincent de fresquet SCAMMER.

[blackie]

Has the TZ group had anyone wait EVEN longer before nailing a scammer ?

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[Kingstepper]

Probably got his finger in the church coffers: - http://www.saintpierredeneuilly.com/...mique-778.html

[seadog1408]

Probably got his finger in the church coffers: - http://www.saintpierredeneuilly.com/...mique-778.html

Somebody should sent a link to his work colleagues.

[JasonM]

Somebody should sent a link to his work colleagues.

I nearly suggested that.
He looks like that guy from Trailer park boys 😁

[ped]

Subbed.

[MST]

^ +1

Schadenfreude at its very, very best!

[Steelgecko]

People like this are scum. Hound him until he begs you to let him give you the watch back and some compensation for wear and loss.

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[greenandblack]

It's taken 4 years and I still haven't my watch or cash but by God was it good yesterday

Did you have to take down the fruitier screenprints? Shame, I enjoyed the calm lawyer-like presentation of evidence escalating to a screaming c bomb.

Excellent tenacity, I don’t think you’ll get your money or watch, but you’re doing karma a great service

[kermorvan666]

Somebody should sent a link to his work colleagues.

+1 from me on this suggestion. If my work found out that I had been involved in this sort of activity I would be in massive trouble.

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[blackie]

Did you have to take down the fruitier screenprints? Shame, I enjoyed the calm lawyer-like presentation of evidence escalating to a screaming c bomb.

Excellent tenacity, I don’t think you’ll get your money or watch, but you’re doing karma a great service

Yes sorry. I was sent a PM and in the interest of not getting a ban from Eddie I took it down.
It's in the link tho

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[blackie]

Oh dear.

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