As we did not receive the necessary documentation
What does this even mean? Surely if they asked him for further info and he neglected then they should be able to dispute the chargeback?.?
"As we did not receive the necessary documentation, we were unable to dispute the chargeback..."...who are 'we' (I'm assuming that it's PayPal) and what is 'the necessary documentation'? Surely it is PayPal's duty to ensure that their process is correct as the seller has no control over it?
You sell watch.He buys watch.You post watch.He receives watch and you have proof of that. What is the issue exactly paypal ?
I know you have other things happening Dave but I wouldn't let it stop there mate. Good luck.
You need to get back to Paypal and specifically ask what we're the buyers concerns and what documentation? Looks to me that Paypal have been caught with their pants down but want to pass the pain onto you. Also did you post to a verified buyers address? If you did then you need to remind them of this.
You also need to ask them how given the situation you could have protected yourself just to see what they come back with then you need to think about legal action. I'm sure I've read about people issuing court papers to Paypal as it's their system that has resulted in you losing both the money and the watch.
I'm not in any way legally qualified so i may be talking rubbish but this sort of thing boils my urine.
What utter, utter cretins. All of that makes no sense. If I have followed this correctly, you did in fact send PayPal evidence that Vincent de Fresquet made the purchase.Originally Posted by blackie
It would seem that they live in an alternate universe.
Yes chaps I'm totally bemused. Not only have I given them my case but 2 others and his ebay id which clearly shows what a farce any of this protection bollocks is.
I assume some spotty nobber in front of a pc at paypal I behind the yay or nay outcome without any correct end result.
HTF am I supposed to win ? I assume paypal must also have pistorious and OJ Simpson as directors
Do you have any way to speak to them on the phone?
Yes I'll ring them tomorrow as I have 3 times already.
I will tell you summat for nowt. They have as much chance of getting me to pay them as I have of taking Kelly Brook up the ricker
Might be something of use here?
http://www.screw-paypal.com/paypal_c...formation.html
Good luck!
Have you called the French police....if not - why not__?
No. Not yet. I haven't a clue where to start. I'm going to ring the police tomorrow
This really sucks, absolute scum PayPal they really are. I see they (UK entity), are regulated by the FCA, maybe you can take this to the Ombudsman?
Edit: the bit I'm missing is why does seller protection not work if you have proof of postage? Surely the card issue is PayPal's and not yours particularly when you can prove that PayPal have acted negligently with this person before?
Last edited by ~dadam02~; 29th September 2014 at 08:00.
Sorry to hear this.
I won't be using PP to sell anymore, just BT.
I had to phone paypal a couple of times as they seem to like putting a hold on refunds for no reason I think the cs was in Ireland then it was sorted easily but it was a lot more simple than your problem
This sounds like an absolute nightmare… feel sorry for you and hope you can reach some kind of resolution
Knock knock!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.83...Q!2e0?hl=en-GB
You have his name, you have his address which can also be connected to him by the AUTOBIANCHI CLUB FRANCE logo at the side of the door, you have sent the package to him at this address too.
You have had emails from him wearing the watch. What more do they want?
I really do hope this gets resolved for you. This sort of fraud/theft should be stopped and people who do it should go to prison.
Good luck.
Well I'm questioning paypal's comments at the moment and getting standard emails telling me to click on links for info.
It really is a very poor show and I'm a bit green as to how I go about this next.
Never had to deal with any of this before.
No one at paypal wants to personally give me an answer
I would contact every person via email from here> http://www.saintpierredeneuilly.com/...mique-778.html directing them to this post. (email him first with your intentions giving him 24 hours to reply)
I would call his local police station asking them to pay him a visit.
Report the fraud here> http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud
Forget watches for a while and make this your new hobby, I think it will be quite rewarding if you get a result.
Cheers Michael
Talk to the press and see if you can get a feature, they love dirt against this so called big companies.
So what exactly are paypal taking a % of all sales from anybody who uses their service for? I realise you have other stuff going on,but what about trading standards?
Could you ask PayPal what else they need to prove you're in the right, apart from:
a photo of the man wearing your watch
a signature from him receiving it
an email confirming he's happy with it??
Local police address/number.
Central Police Station, and SAIP BDEP Saint Lambert 250, rue de Vaugirard 75015 Paris Phone 01 53 68 81 00
I was thinking of doing this too but are there any legal implications (e.g. libel)?
Growing fast. I'm not surprised the robbing gits
Longer than Hamlet...
Maybe things have changed but Paypal T's and C's extend to 36,000+ words. At an average speed of 200 words per minute that's 3 hours of solid reading and that assumes you can even comprehend information in legal-jargon, more like a day or two of reading.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Macbeth.html
Just read the whole of this thread, unbelievable! How the hell can PP justify that decision? And as for that scumbag, I can't really say what I'd like here.
Hope you manage to get it sorted out
We're all having a go a PayPal, but don't the credit card company share the blame. It must the the card company that is clawing back the money and they'll be holding PayPal to ransom as PP's business depends upon being able to accept card payments.
Why doesn't PayPal's system hold up and provide the 'necessary documentation' to verify authorisation of the debit? Now there is a question.
It isn't Paypal's fault that this has happened. Paypal is the only processor that will actually dispute a chargeback that I'm aware of, that's why I use them. If they have passed information to the bank, and the bank take the money back, Paypal has no control over this.
There are many faults with Paypal's system, but this isn't one of them. They don't actually have any legal obligation to fight the chargeback at all.
The reason they ask for Proof of Postage is that as a seller they'll cover you automatically under their seller protection policy, even if they lose the money if they know you posted to the address on the Paypal transaction.
However, if you accept a personal payment, then you get out of paying the fees... but then, you're not a seller. Therefore, no seller protection.
When you receive the payment, it says "Seller Protection: Ineligible". So you, as the payment recipient, are taking the risk if anything goes wrong. Pretty clear, really.
The lesson I learnt the hard way long ago: If you don't know the buyer, take the hit on the PayPal fees so you have Seller Protection.
If you don't do that, and a bank takes the money back, there's no point blaming the payment processor for it.
Last edited by Shish; 2nd October 2014 at 12:57.
So payment was received as paypal gift? Then it was not linked to a transaction.
It wasn't an eBay transaction no
Are you saying you did a deal with the guy outside of eBay? It doesn't excuse his behaviour, but the stance eBay/Paypal seem to have taken is a bit more understandable.
Why?
As I understand things, OP sold a watch and was paid with PayPal. What's it to do with eBay?
Right, so this was a private sale (not via eBay) and PayPal was used to facilitate the funds transfer.
Did you send an invoice via PP to the guy, clearly stating it was for a watch, and did you pay the associated fees?
Exactly..
The Paypal site page seems very clear... If you comply with the rules , you will be safe....
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/seller-protection
Yep, as long as there was a proper raised invoice and 'seller' transaction.
If not, there was no official transaction, so PP may wash their hands of it?
Apologies, amongst all the talk of the buyer's ebay id and other ebay experiences I had missed the post about the buyer and seller being introduced by Chronotrader.
Paypal's stance is still understandable though if the payment wasn't clearly for the purchase of goods.
Hi gents
There was merely a conversation via email and the funds sent by the buyer
OK, so the funds were sent without a clear indication of what they were for? This explains PP's stance, and blaming them for not doing anything isn't justified.
I think your only option now is to go to the police.
I suppose the key here is if they were sent as 'gift' and therefore no fees for you, or 'goods' in which case you would have paid fees (3 or 4%?). If the latter then surely you'd benefit from pp seller protection, irrespective of whether it was through ebay or not?
Exactly. Was it a PP gift, blackie?
It would be interesting to know if this fits the seller's previous modus operandi. That is, offering to pay via Paypal gift knowing that when he disputes the charge with his credit card company that Paypal will not put up much of a fight.
It seems to me that there is some confusion going on here all at once and it seems it was introduced (unintentionally I am sure) by Shish's message at #131.
Here is how I have understood the situation from the beginning:
(1) There was never any suggestion that this was an eBay transaction. As I understand it, it was a private transaction with the funds transferred by PayPal.
(2) There was never any suggestion that the funds had been transferred by anything other than a PayPal payment for goods, which (supposedly!) provides PayPal's protection to both the buyer and seller. Clearly, if the funds had been transferred as a PayPal gift then there would be no protection for buyer or seller.
So, was the payment a PayPal gift?
Hi Mark
Indeed some confusion which wasn't intended.
I was bemused myself as I have had to recheck and the funds were sent as a friend payment.
Hope this clarifies the situation
PayPal gift is as unsafe as Western Union. You give up any right to help from PayPal when you use their free service.
However, you need to contact the police and, if possible, the guys credit card company.
Also, contact his friends and associates to put some moral pressure on him.
That's the issue then:
1) You didn't pay fees
2) It was money transfer from a friend
3) There was no sale of goods or services
4) Therefore no Seller Protection as there was no sale
You can't blame PP for their lack of help I'm afraid
The police need to be called.
GF. I take your comments on board but feel that PP need to be accountable for their actions. Perhaps not for my transaction but I have given them evidence of 3 ebay transactions from the same man. If this man had indeed been flagged up earlier then perhaps more people would not have been scammed
But PayPal are not eBay and nor are they the Police, they just process transactions.
The eBay issue is separate and would have to be dealt with by eBay and the folks who were scammed.
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