Talk me out of a seiko shogun sbdc007

[PJ S]

You appear to be lucky, not so here though, it's crystal clear that hardlex is not very scratch resistant, a factory option to upgrade would be a progressive step forward from Seiko.

Come on Paul, you can't use that photo to back up your position – look at the rest of the case, it's banjaxed!
If that's all the damage the crystal has sustained given the state of the rest of the watch, then it's good going.

[wildheart]

Go straight to the Tuna, do not pass go...don't put it off...you know it maks sense!

[mborkow]

Why is it always the people that only deskdive or hold on to watches for a maximum of a few months that bother so much abouit a crystal, that I haven't managed to scratch yet.................

Daddel.

For your information, I am a PADI certified diver and have every intention of diving with the watch (along with a dive computer).

[Erwind]

[bedlam]

You appear to be lucky, not so here though, it's crystal clear that hardlex is not very scratch resistant, a factory option to upgrade would be a progressive step forward from Seiko.

Using your rationale and that photo we need to ditch unhardened stainless steel too. Ditch those rubbish Subs and PO's Captainhowdy...they have 'poor' scratch resistance compared to the Shogun's titanium. But you aren't that intellectually consistent are you.


And, of course, there is never a problem with sapphire!

[adzman808]

Using your rationale and that photo we need to ditch unhardened stainless steel too. Ditch those rubbish Subs and PO's Captainhowdy...they have 'poor' scratch resistance compared to the Shogun's titanium. But you aren't that intellectually consistent are you.


And, of course, there is never a problem with sapphire!

OMG that's shocking and completely unacceptable. I can't even look at it.





Someone really needs to align the bezel properly

[Barnefko]

[Captainhowdy]

Using your rationale and that photo we need to ditch unhardened stainless steel too. Ditch those rubbish Subs and PO's Captainhowdy...they have 'poor' scratch resistance compared to the Shogun's titanium. But you aren't that intellectually consistent are you.

I've got to agree with you on the titanium front, but I much prefer grade 5 ti.

[markosgr28]

Stunning watch and specs, but personally I would prefer the much cheaper Sumo, which has the same movement.

[vagabond]

I had one for a few months earlier this year and whilst I had high expectations, couldn't quite bond with it.

Can't really put my finger on a single thing but I think it was a combination of the hands (I really didn't like the hour hand) and the curiously light weight of it. Now I have several other Ti watches (in fact 10+ currently) and none of them feel so light on the wrist.

If you buy used, I think that around the £5-600 price point it makes sense. I certainly wouldn't want to buy new.

YMMV.

[Ray]

I can't find a single thing to dislike about my Shogun. Great design, perfect size, amazing comfort, flaming lume. In terms of what you get for the price, I'd argue it's the best value dive watch going.

I don't get the issue some have with the hands; I find them attractive and easy to read. I thought the Hardlex would bother me, but it doesn't. The look is rather endearing, and if that ever changes, switching to sapphire is easy enough to do.

Just buy it. If you end up not liking it, they're easy to flip, and you'll take only a small hit (~15% off the new price). If you buy gently used, you can flip it for what you paid.

I'd post some pics, but Photobucket is down for maintenance.

[Daddelvirks]

Seiko Titaniums Are One of the Best Kept Secrets



titanium is a great material for watches

it's light, stronger, hypoallergenic, does not rust, and it's light

it is more expensive than steel, however not as expensive as most are led to believe

seiko titanium watches are a bargain

next best competition is the swiss and they many more times expensive




seiko diashield or brightz titanium is equivalent of grade 5 titanium

standard pure titanium is soft and prone to scratches

it is also dull and dark

it's fine for tool watches

however, most favor their watches in steel-like shine




whereas swiss solves this problem by using a grade 5 titanium, a titanium alloy,

seiko uses treated titanium alloy

surface treatment process results in a finish that is like steel in finish,

both polished and brushed surfaces,

with scratch resistance greater than that of steel

and at prices five times less than that of a swiss grade 5 titanium watch




let's compare SDBC007 "Shogun with Omega seamaster Planet ocean in grade 5 titanium

one may say, these are incomparable because their prices are so different and they are in different class

however, they are the only ones able to be compared

there are very few titanium watches and big holes in prices




there are exactly three grade 5 or equivalent titanium divers

Seiko SBDC007, Grand Seiko SBGA031 and Omega titanium PO

prices are 1k USD, 5k USD and 5k USD respectively

there is nothing between 1k and 5k, maybe the Marine Master 600 at 3.5k

however, MM600 is entirely a tool watch unlike the other three style-oriented divers




given such steep jump from 1k to 5k USD,

SBDC007 remains as the biggest bargain among titanium watches

they are all automatic

grand seiko has a spring drive, but omega has a traditional automatic and so does SBDC007

unless one must have spring drive and additional finishing of grand seiko,

there is very little to justify 4k jump in price



low price of SBDC007 is due to seiko's mis-marketing it
it's a great watch but seiko should not have released the watch without further study
it is always compared to sumo because they are essentially same watches separated by a case,
but aren't most swiss watches?
same ETA movement in omega is ten times more expensive than another watch with ETA movement
accounting for difference in detail, it's hard to justify ten times the price
such is the price of luxury goods and seiko failed to account for luxury value of titanium
by releasing SBDC007, seiko cheapened the perception of titanium as a luxury metal
or seiko revealed the truth that a quality titanium watch need not be so expensive

or SBDC007 was a way to test the waters for titanium watches
this experiment was a success and a failure
most people still did not get this watch because titanium's persistent bad reputation,
soft and unmanly
it's a great watch but misunderstood, a true diamond in the rough
it's a bargain for all those who understand its greatness
I doubt seiko will release anything similar once this goes out of production.


Something to ponder over ............

Daddel.

[seikopath]

' titaniums persistent bad reputation soft and unmanly' - thanks for the chuckles dadds!

[Daddelvirks]

' titaniums persistent bad reputation soft and unmanly' - thanks for the chuckles dadds!

Just like me................

Daddel.

[omega]

Seiko Titaniums Are One of the Best Kept Secrets



titanium is a great material for watches

it's light, stronger, hypoallergenic, does not rust, and it's light

it is more expensive than steel, however not as expensive as most are led to believe

seiko titanium watches are a bargain

next best competition is the swiss and they many more times expensive




seiko diashield or brightz titanium is equivalent of grade 5 titanium

standard pure titanium is soft and prone to scratches

it is also dull and dark

it's fine for tool watches

however, most favor their watches in steel-like shine




whereas swiss solves this problem by using a grade 5 titanium, a titanium alloy,

seiko uses treated titanium alloy

surface treatment process results in a finish that is like steel in finish,

both polished and brushed surfaces,

with scratch resistance greater than that of steel

and at prices five times less than that of a swiss grade 5 titanium watch




let's compare SDBC007 "Shogun with Omega seamaster Planet ocean in grade 5 titanium

one may say, these are incomparable because their prices are so different and they are in different class

however, they are the only ones able to be compared

there are very few titanium watches and big holes in prices




there are exactly three grade 5 or equivalent titanium divers

Seiko SBDC007, Grand Seiko SBGA031 and Omega titanium PO

prices are 1k USD, 5k USD and 5k USD respectively

there is nothing between 1k and 5k, maybe the Marine Master 600 at 3.5k

however, MM600 is entirely a tool watch unlike the other three style-oriented divers




given such steep jump from 1k to 5k USD,

SBDC007 remains as the biggest bargain among titanium watches

they are all automatic

grand seiko has a spring drive, but omega has a traditional automatic and so does SBDC007

unless one must have spring drive and additional finishing of grand seiko,

there is very little to justify 4k jump in price



low price of SBDC007 is due to seiko's mis-marketing it
it's a great watch but seiko should not have released the watch without further study
it is always compared to sumo because they are essentially same watches separated by a case,
but aren't most swiss watches?
same ETA movement in omega is ten times more expensive than another watch with ETA movement
accounting for difference in detail, it's hard to justify ten times the price
such is the price of luxury goods and seiko failed to account for luxury value of titanium
by releasing SBDC007, seiko cheapened the perception of titanium as a luxury metal
or seiko revealed the truth that a quality titanium watch need not be so expensive

or SBDC007 was a way to test the waters for titanium watches
this experiment was a success and a failure
most people still did not get this watch because titanium's persistent bad reputation,
soft and unmanly
it's a great watch but misunderstood, a true diamond in the rough
it's a bargain for all those who understand its greatness
I doubt seiko will release anything similar once this goes out of production.


Something to ponder over ............

Daddel.

I own the Seiko Shogun and your thought's have really got me thinking ,i think you have a point about Seiko not releasing another watch like the shogun at the current price point .

The shogun i feel deserves better hands and a better movement would really be a big plus, given this is a unique watch Seiko could get away with it.

[Captainhowdy]

Seiko Titaniums Are One of the Best Kept Secrets



titanium is a great material for watches

it's light, stronger, hypoallergenic, does not rust, and it's light

it is more expensive than steel, however not as expensive as most are led to believe

seiko titanium watches are a bargain

next best competition is the swiss and they many more times expensive




seiko diashield or brightz titanium is equivalent of grade 5 titanium

standard pure titanium is soft and prone to scratches

it is also dull and dark

it's fine for tool watches

however, most favor their watches in steel-like shine




whereas swiss solves this problem by using a grade 5 titanium, a titanium alloy,

seiko uses treated titanium alloy

surface treatment process results in a finish that is like steel in finish,

both polished and brushed surfaces,

with scratch resistance greater than that of steel

and at prices five times less than that of a swiss grade 5 titanium watch




let's compare SDBC007 "Shogun with Omega seamaster Planet ocean in grade 5 titanium

one may say, these are incomparable because their prices are so different and they are in different class

however, they are the only ones able to be compared

there are very few titanium watches and big holes in prices




there are exactly three grade 5 or equivalent titanium divers

Seiko SBDC007, Grand Seiko SBGA031 and Omega titanium PO

prices are 1k USD, 5k USD and 5k USD respectively

there is nothing between 1k and 5k, maybe the Marine Master 600 at 3.5k

however, MM600 is entirely a tool watch unlike the other three style-oriented divers




given such steep jump from 1k to 5k USD,

SBDC007 remains as the biggest bargain among titanium watches

they are all automatic

grand seiko has a spring drive, but omega has a traditional automatic and so does SBDC007

unless one must have spring drive and additional finishing of grand seiko,

there is very little to justify 4k jump in price



low price of SBDC007 is due to seiko's mis-marketing it
it's a great watch but seiko should not have released the watch without further study
it is always compared to sumo because they are essentially same watches separated by a case,
but aren't most swiss watches?
same ETA movement in omega is ten times more expensive than another watch with ETA movement
accounting for difference in detail, it's hard to justify ten times the price
such is the price of luxury goods and seiko failed to account for luxury value of titanium
by releasing SBDC007, seiko cheapened the perception of titanium as a luxury metal
or seiko revealed the truth that a quality titanium watch need not be so expensive

or SBDC007 was a way to test the waters for titanium watches
this experiment was a success and a failure
most people still did not get this watch because titanium's persistent bad reputation,
soft and unmanly
it's a great watch but misunderstood, a true diamond in the rough
it's a bargain for all those who understand its greatness
I doubt seiko will release anything similar once this goes out of production.


Something to ponder over ............

Daddel.

Sounds just like an Omega.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrxUCISZjXI

[buddy13]

I can only talk you into one...

It's a great watch that compares very well with watches costing multiple times its price.

I really like its:

- Ti finish (it brushes smoother than SS)
- durability of diamond like coating (not a single scratch not even on the clasp in 2 weeks of use)
- light weight (comfort)
- Ti colour (no really...in certain lights it appears just slightly less shiny than SS...hard to describe but very real)
- Well finished & proportioned dial and hands (these are no monster hands)
- Lume

I don't like:

- Cheap sounding, easy to turn bezel.
- Totally garbage, stiffer than a rock (SS equipped buckle!!) rubber strap.

Partial:

- Non-A/R coating on crystal
- Hardlex crystal (my 5 year SBBN015 crystal has 2-3 micro scratches)
- Rough 6R15 movement (low beat rate, poor positional variation, poor regulation). I'd have payed an additional 400 Euro for an 8L35 engine (Preferably Seiko would regulate it properly).

Well thats it...apart from the typical Seiko flaws...one of my favourites ever :)...

[dkpw]

I know this is a three year old thread but I wanted to say that it's been a perfect reflection of my dithering about whether to go for a Shogun.
I may be late to this particular game but the points made on both sides throughout the thread still apply and have been wandering through my mind in the last few weeks.

While I find the Shogun very attractive, love titanium and it’s a sensible size but at £930 I think it's over priced. For new money I would expect sapphire, maybe an 8L35 and possibly different hands.
Second hand is probably the way to go but in the end, I could not justify one new and so went for a second Turtle, this time a Pepsi.

It's a shame as I feel that Seiko have and continue to miss a trick with the Shogun to take it up a notch or two.

I can only talk you into one...

It's a great watch that compares very well with watches costing multiple times its price.

I really like its:

- Ti finish (it brushes smoother than SS)
- durability of diamond like coating (not a single scratch not even on the clasp in 2 weeks of use)
- light weight (comfort)
- Ti colour (no really...in certain lights it appears just slightly less shiny than SS...hard to describe but very real)
- Well finished & proportioned dial and hands (these are no monster hands)
- Lume

I don't like:

- Cheap sounding, easy to turn bezel.
- Totally garbage, stiffer than a rock (SS equipped buckle!!) rubber strap.

Partial:

- Non-A/R coating on crystal
- Hardlex crystal (my 5 year SBBN015 crystal has 2-3 micro scratches)
- Rough 6R15 movement (low beat rate, poor positional variation, poor regulation). I'd have payed an additional 400 Euro for an 8L35 engine (Preferably Seiko would regulate it properly).

Well thats it...apart from the typical Seiko flaws...one of my favourites ever :)...

[firefoxed]

I know this is a three year old thread but I wanted to say that it's been a perfect reflection of my dithering about whether to go for a Shogun.
I may be late to this particular game but the points made on both sides throughout the thread still apply and have been wandering through my mind in the last few weeks.

While I find the Shogun very attractive, love titanium and it’s a sensible size but at £930 I think it's over priced. For new money I would expect sapphire, maybe an 8L35 and possibly different hands.
Second hand is probably the way to go but in the end, I could not justify one new and so went for a second Turtle, this time a Pepsi.

It's a shame as I feel that Seiko have and continue to miss a trick with the Shogun to take it up a notch or two.

They can be picked up preowned for between 6-700 dollars and at that price they are an excellent buy. If the put an 8L35 & sapphire we could be talking about a 2K watch not sure how much love it would get then. The hands divide opinion, I always thought of them as "monster hands" and never liked them. But when you see the watch in person they are much better quality than fitted to any other Seiko with a similar style.

It's my most comfortable watch by a long shot, perfect as a holiday watch to wear in the sun compared to heavy stainless steel.

Buy preowned, add a sapphire crystal along with a Marinemaster handset and that will be two of your three main issues sorted cheap.

[Binsull]

Buy preowned, add a sapphire crystal along with a Marinemaster handset and that will be two of your three main issues sorted cheap.

Hmmmm.....that's got me thinking about adding the SBDX012 hands to the new SPB057J!

[firefoxed]

Hmmmm.....that's got me thinking about adding the SBDX012 hands to the new SPB057J!

Ohh that could really work, the handset is excellent and the watch just stunning, Congrats.

[bedlam]

...at £930 I think it's over priced. For new money I would expect...an 8L35...

What the? Not ever going to happen at that price.

I put a sapphire crystal in mine and it didn't suit the watch at all. I put the Hardlex back in.

The hands are a personal preference and have nothing to do with cost...so I don't really follow that comment at all.

It's a shame as I feel that Seiko have and continue to miss a trick with the Shogun to take it up a notch or two.

I have owned my Shogun for a long tme now and the longer I have used it the higher it has risen in my estimation. A watch is more than a preferred component list (that we wouldn't come to an agreement on between us anyway) its how the components work together. I rate the Shogun as one of the few near perfect dive watches I have used. Not on a component level, but on its fit for purpose and the overall package. The only other dive watch I have used and feel is as complete a package is the Supermarine, and that cost substantiially more.

At its price point the Shogun is my pick every time.

[dkpw]

@Bedlam, you clearly love it, I want to love it. The items I mentioned stopped me pressing the buy button, who knows that may change. In the meantime enjoy it, I know you will. :)

[bedlam]

@Bedlam, you clearly love it, I want to love it. The items I mentioned stopped me pressing the buy button, who knows that may change. In the meantime enjoy it, I know you will. :)

It's true, I am a fan.

Unfortunately its a watch one is not likely to 'get' without spending time with it.

[markosgr28]

Very nice shots of a very nice watch. Thanks for sharing.

[dkpw]

It's true, I am a fan. Unfortunately its a watch one is not likely to 'get' without spending time with it.

Apologies for the delay in replying, and also for those excellent shots. Shall we just say that the button has now been pressed. :)

[inspector gadget]

Bought a Shogun, wore it every day...

Bought a Black Bay, wore it every day...

Sold the Shogun.... regretted it every day...

Bought another Shogun, wear it occasionally... soon it will be travelling to yobokies for some snowflake hands and a sapphire crystal...

I love my Shogun more than any other watch in the collection...

And i'm about to buy anther Ti watch, the Promaster Navihawk GPS Super Titanium....

gadge

[markosgr28]

Bought a Shogun, wore it every day...

Bought a Black Bay, wore it every day...

Sold the Shogun.... regretted it every day...

Bought another Shogun, wear it occasionally... soon it will be travelling to yobokies for some snowflake hands and a sapphire crystal...

I love my Shogun more than any other watch in the collection...

And i'm about to buy anther Ti watch, the Promaster Navihawk GPS Super Titanium....

gadge

Personally I really love this watch, but I wouldn't mod it. It is not my type. I prefer my items as they were originally designed. I can accept a mod on an SKX but I really love the shogun as it is. Especially the snowflake is a trademark of a totally different brand.