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What are you trying to explain with this very old thread from WUS, showing one customer that isn't satified?Originally Posted by marcus fenix
Where is the balance wheel information?
Daddel.
The 8L35 doesn't sound a patch on a 2824. An hour for the date to change, terrible isochronism etc? Seems to have quite a lot of different parts to a GS movement inc the very important balance wheel rather than simply being 'unadjusted'.
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/wha...nt-483274.html
What are you trying to explain with this very old thread from WUS, showing one customer that isn't satified?
Where is the balance wheel information?
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
That was one of many threads. The balance wheel info is in practically any description of the movement you happen to find. Google is your friend but I'd expect you to know this as a Seiko expert
I am very pleased with my MM300.... it gains 1 second a day.
I have never been a Breitling fan (many of them look too busy to me) and have never considered a Seawolf.
It looks a great watch, but for me the GS based 8L35 movement seals it for the MM300.
Yup,That was one of many threads. The balance wheel info is in practically any description of the movement you happen to find. Google is your friend but I'd expect you to know this as a Seiko expert
The movement is an 8L35, an undecorated and unadjusted version of the high-end Grand Seiko 9S55. Rhodium-plated, 26 jewels, automatic, 28800vph (4Hz), handwind and hacking, 50 hour power reserve. The size of the balance wheel was increased to provide the torque required, as the hands are heavier than a dress watch. The 8L35 is also used in the Landmaster, which has the same hands.The movement by all accounts keeps excellent time, and in 9S55 trim is capable of exceeding COSC specs. Anecdotal reports on various fora indicate less than five seconds’ daily error is typical. The spec is -10 to +15 seconds per day.The 8L35 is completely in-house Seiko, and is descended from the 6159 300m diver, circa 1969. Everything from oil on up, including mainspring, is Seiko. Kinda cool. What they call a ‘manufacture’. John ‘ei8htohms’ Davis is a big fan of the 8L35, and had this to say about it:My understanding is that the Seiko 8L35 is pretty much the same movement as the 9S55, but perhaps missing a few refinements and not as thoroughly adjusted. As such, it is one of the finest automatic movements Seiko makes. The machining is of the highest quality and the design and construction is informed by Seiko’s many years of experience. I believe the 8L35 even has a Lossier inner coil on the hairspring. A very nice touch you will not find in any modern Swiss watches to my knowledge.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Does anyone know how much time\effort is required to have the 8L35 movement properly regulated to the GS standard? Perhaps these missing parts are what is stopping it from the top spec. performance.
It said perhaps............
And even a 7s26 can be chronometer regulated.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
That does not answer my question.
If you bought it brand new, why not send it back? You knew it was sold as a chronometer. Usually the last thing you have to worry about with a modern Breitling (perhaps not the old ones, if you haven't moved with the times!) is the timekeeping.
Speak for yourself - for some, the workhorse reliability is what's important, "WIS" or not. I get my WIS kicks by building watches and restoring them, not by flashing a credit card in malls, mumbling "in-house, in-house".Movement wise, ETA 2824 is good, but it cannot compare with undecorated Grand Seiko movement in MM. Unfortunately it can't. 2824 is nothing more than a work horse movement. Very good and reliable for everyday and cheap to service, but since we are all WIS, that extra bit of 'horology drool' is wanted.
The Pro II is not everyone's design cup of tea. The clasp is not stamped, but milled. Also, the end links fit the case.Bracelet? I'm comparing the Pro II, not the III model (since OP want's to buy II, i know him). I have a second Breitling with that bracelet. It's ok, not very comfortable and the clasp is just another stamped piece.
It it was it is; if you want a case capable of withstanding 3,000m WR, whether you can or not, then that's what you buy, but it'll cost ya. BTW you'll be dead at 300m too.WR? Ok, 3000m sounds good. And tough. But at the end of the day, it's really unnecessary from a dive watch standpoint. Any human would be with two foot's in a grave at 1/10 of that depth.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
It never does, doen't it?
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I asked how much effort was needed to get the movement up to the GS standard, you answered with unrelated crap, so no you did not answer the question, hopefully someone can.
As usual the Captain is here on a Seiko thread.
He seems to be obsessed with the brand, and never misses an opportunity to do some Seiko bashing.
Just asking a question Jimbo, but why would anyone put a detuned movement in a flagship watch is beyond my comprehension.
I did. Sorted out because i had warranty. The same case would be with MM.
Nothing wrong with 2824, i have one now and i had a pretty share of them before. Great movement and a work horse, but nothing fancy about it being COSC grade. For some, having in-house is a extra touch by owning a wristwatch. For you - it's not. And that's ok, i can live with that.
I have it in my hand. Looks stamped to me. I agree on end link part!
I liked the look. The WR was not the reason i bought it. I don't need a watch for flashing in malls, mumbling "3000m WR, 3000m WR"
I don't think it is detuned? Do Seiko say it's detuned? I don't think so.
I've got a GS with the GMT version of the same movement (9S56) which loses one second a day, and my MM300 gains one second a day.
The 8L35 is a superior movement, and to suggest otherwise seems to me to be just vitriol.
A few years ago I had a Rolex Datejust that gained 3 seconds a day. I now own a Day-Date that lost 5 seconds a day (until I had it adjusted, it now gains one second a day). I have owned several 'high end' watches that have needed some tweaking before they can achieve only one second variance in a day.
I think the problem here is that he doesn't know the answer and nor does anybody else. You can't find a definitive statement on what that movement really is made of and how similar it is to the GS movement.
Seiko say that it's a average performing automatic movement, some forum members have suggested that the 8L35 is just a undecorated\unregulated GS movement, but perhaps as with so many of today's Seiko fan boys the truth has once again be stretched somewhat.
Where do they say it's an average performing automatic?
Oh, don't start,
Next he will demand written proof, claim he's falsly accused of lying and what have you.
The hamster's wheel goes round and round.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Seiko claim that you can expect the watch to run at 10-\15+ seconds a day, that puts it in the standard eta performance, nowhere near GS or cosc levels, you might be lucky with yours, I can only go by what's in the official spec.
You are a liar, there's nothing false about it, and you're proof is below.
Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
All this is really laughable coming from someone who never has a watch serviced.
All hearsay, you haven't got any or very little real life experience and just shout randomly about things you pick up from the interweb, it's a joke.
Daddel.
Last edited by Captainhowdy; 1st September 2014 at 14:09.
Whereas many other people go by what is achieved in the real world. For reasons best known to themselves, Seiko likes to under-promise and over-deliver.
This causes some people (e.g. you) to dismiss some of Seiko's watches. So be it. But you should recognise that your reasons for disliking (some of?) Seiko's watches, whilst obviously valid for you, are still subjective. Other people have no problem whatsoever with the very things that you feel discredit Seiko's watches.
Mark, I don't dislike Seiko's, they are mostly just below what I would expect from a watch so not considered, but I live in hope for improvements.
I don't see it as subjective to trust the brands own specs. the subjective part comes in where people are happy with less performance, but each to his own I guess.
The Captain seems to have a deep hatred of anything Seiko. He always jumps in to sabotage every Seiko thread with his vitriol.
There are brands I don't like, but I wouldn't look out for any opportunity to bad mouth them or their enthusiasts.
I think the Captain needs to get a life.
I doubt if anyone on this board has the slightest interest in him.
He is a very sad person.
Of course you don't.
Sorry you feel the need to start personal insults when you are proven wrong, are you related to Richard?
You are also quite wrong about how I feel about Seiko, they make very good watches, mostly below what I would choose, but I was very nearly tempted with the GS diver last week, if another comes up and I have the cash I may well buy one.
I'd like to see that.. Which Seiko diver do you like?
right here.............
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...ht=grand+seiko
He will have to put cash where his mouth is shortly, otherwise people might start calling him a liar............
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Unlike you, I don't lie. If you can point to anything on this forum were I have done so, then please point it out, otherwise do not under any circumstances make any comparisons to your behaviour, as I find it odious and reprehensible.
Ah.. a very good choice! I have one of those, the SBGA031 Titanium version.
I just looked at this watch on the Seiko web-site, - they claim accurate to 1 second a day. Which is nonsense.
I have this and two other Spring Drive watches, and the worst of them varies only 3 seconds a month!
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
As I say, here's the proof, now what do you have on me?
Daddel.
Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
All this is really laughable coming from someone who never has a watch serviced.
All hearsay, you haven't got any or very little real life experience and just shout randomly about things you pick up from the interweb, it's a joke.
Daddel.
Last edited by Captainhowdy; 1st September 2014 at 18:49.
I find the MM300 quite heavy on the wrist (on land), so I tend to wear the bracelet relatively tight to restrain the watch from lurching around and becoming uncomfortable. As the day progresses, or maybe just gets warmer, I use the adjustable ratchet to allow for any swelling of my wrist. I may also do this during a sedentary evening just for comfort. I find this facility really convenient - is it a commonplace feature or particular to the MM300?
Bracelet? I'm comparing the Pro II, not the III model (since OP want's to buy II, i know him
I am glad to see that the Captain is finally coming to his senses.
You often say things like "they are mostly just below what I would expect from a watch" and that is exactly what I would describe as an expression of dislike. Anyway, this is a side-argument about semantics. Call it "dislike" or something else, the essential meaning is the same.
Indeed, they are just below your subjectively chosen arbitrary standards and so you dislike them (or whatever other word is preferable instead of "dislike" here).
Other, equally arbitrary and no less valid, standards are available.
Oh but it is: As I pointed out before, you can subjectively choose to look only at the specs or you can subjectively choose to go by real world performance. Both are equally valid approaches and equally subjective. Whilst specs are relevant so is real world performance. One cannot rationally be said to be objectively more valid than the other.
As I said, Seiko seem to have a policy of under-promising and over-delivering. Thus those who choose to go by the specs alone, like you, might come to dislike (or other word of your choice) Seikos if their arbitrarily chosen performance expectations were higher than the specs (as apparently are yours). For those who choose to go by real world performance, or for those who are simply not as concerned as you with uber-accurate timekeeping, Seiko may seem ideal.
Yes, this is subjective. But even the idea of "less performance" is subjective. Less performance than what? In the case of Seikos, it is less performance than you expect for your arbitrarily and subjectively chosen reasons. For other people (and for equally arbitrary and subjective reasons), there is no "less performance" at all; for them, performance is up to expectations.
I think it is your consistent use of forms of language that seem to implicitly extrapolate from your personal and subjective preferences into presumed objective standards and which, as a consequence, seem to be intended to inevitably cause an emotive response that are what cause people to become so combative with you. You say you don't do it intentionally.
P.S. I'm not going to say any more on this subject in this thread. It was originally supposed to be about watches, not personalities.
Last edited by markrlondon; 2nd September 2014 at 01:51.
Different angle. As said my MM300 runs at +3.5 sec when last timed. As the movement is assembled in Japan, would that impact how they run here? Earth magnetism and all that?
Amen to that, I've never read so much self absorbed twaddle, you have a habit of assuming too much when reading what others have posted, the net result is what seems like endless paragraphs of nothing.
Of course, troll.
To be clear, I have assumed nothing. All is based upon your consistent, long term, and ongoing behaviour patterns. Trolls never like it when they are called out and will always try to discredit or escape from a truthful and accurate description of their behaviour.
Last edited by markrlondon; 2nd September 2014 at 07:44.
You seem to be another one who has trouble standing by what they say, now at least try to keep your word and in future stick to the facts of the matter as they are rather than assuming what others have written.
Last edited by Captainhowdy; 2nd September 2014 at 07:51.
I presume you mean that I replied to you when I said I would not post any more in this thread on the subject of your consistent trolling. Well, despite my earlier comment, the nature of your disingenuous reply seemed to me to demand a response.
I will now, however, leave you to get the last word on this subject in this thread no matter what it turns out to be.
It will be interesting to see what your response is.
My reply is as always fairly straight forward. You have recently started and for reasons best known only to yourself attempted to analyse my posts. There really is no need for you to do this, you also have the unhappy knack of turning many posts around to be about you, rather than the subject at hand.
If you stop trying to read between the lines and refrain from assumptions your time here will be much better, I guarantee it.
Amen to that.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Still not a peep from you about your lying.
Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
All this is really laughable coming from someone who never has a watch serviced.
All hearsay, you haven't got any or very little real life experience and just shout randomly about things you pick up from the interweb, it's a joke.
Daddel.
Still not a peep from you about your lying.
Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
All this is really laughable coming from someone who never has a watch serviced.
All hearsay, you haven't got any or very little real life experience and just shout randomly about things you pick up from the interweb, it's a joke.
Daddel.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I feel happy that you have been exposed as someone who is willing to openly lie to try and prove a point, and even better it demonstrates to us all exactly the kind of untrustworthy character that you clearly are.
Daddel.
Yep, that's me, now you have exposed me to the TZ-UK world, I'm done for.
DADDELVIRKS IS A LIAR, FANBOY, TWAT, AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
It's done, the Cap. has finally saved the world from this unjustice.
Long live Cap-Freedom-Birdseye-Howdy.
I'll get me coat.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Finally we can agree on something, an admission is always the best place to start, so hopefully a lesson has been learned and there will be no need for you to stoop so low in future, after all we are only discussing watches.
I suspect that there are a number of members on this forum who wish that the three of you would stop taking over threads with your bickering and name-calling, and just grow up.
Anyone remember poor old Adversary? He asked a perfectly reasonable question, and I don't suppose he expected it to be hijacked and deteriorate into yet another boring, insult-laden bitch-fest.
Hi Adversary. I can't offer you any comparisons as an owner since I've worn but never owned the MM300. I do however own a new yellow-dialled Avenger II Seawolf, and I'm happy to offer an opinion on that. I love the watch in terms of looks, accuracy, build quality & sheer presence - but cannot deny that it's big, tall and heavy. Personally I like it that way, I've never hit it on anything, and I find it comfortable on the (excellent) bracelet. As I also have a Skyland Avenger which has the same weight and dimensions (and that's on OEM rubber), I suspect the Seawolf would be even easier to wear on either a Pro II or Pro III rubber strap, although I've never felt the need to try it.
Possibly because it's yellow as well, my Seawolf is easily the most remarked-upon watch I own.
Although you've had a number of helpful responses from other Seawolf owners, I will take issue with one point that's been made several times. The baton-dialled version has been put forward as the best option - I would disagree. I love the stencil-style Arabic numerals on mine and think it differentiates the watch from many others in a way that the batons don't. Just my opinion.
Simon
Last edited by mycroft; 2nd September 2014 at 10:00.
Chaps,
You should know better than to use bad language in one of the public forums - Eddie has enough headaches as it is so calm the language down.
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