Reply With QuoteJust report it to ebay, the seller said one thing and delivered another.
Hi folks, got a bit of a dilemma. I recently purchased a Kelek chronograph watch on eBay from a chap in France. He had good feedback and so on. The watch was advertised in the title and description as having a Valjoux 72 movement. It was quite reasonably priced so I sent him a message asking if it was definitely a Valjoux 72, he said yes, absolutely beyond a doubt. I decided to go for it and purchased the watch.
It arrived today (not very well packaged to be honest) and I excitedly unpacked it and looked over it. All seemed well. I wanted to ogle the beauty that is the V72 so out came the trusty rubber ball case opener and the case back was off. Hmmm. Doesn't look like a 72. No column wheel. There is an ETA stamp and some numbers...7736.
Needless to say I'm not very happy at the moment. What can I do?
Cheers
Chris
Last edited by Grandiloquence; 29th August 2014 at 19:27.
Just report it to ebay, the seller said one thing and delivered another.
Cheers for the reply. Do I not need to speak to the seller first? Or just go direct to eBay?
I'd speak to the seller first but it certainly fall under ebay's "significantly not as described" category.
It will be quicker to try and sort out amicably with the seller. Ask him to issue you a refund plus the return postage and send it back. If he is not interested, raise a dispute through ebay, they will find in your favour and you will get your money back in about 30 days. Ebay will then ask you to send the watch back and will give send you a pre paid postage label. It has happened to me twice!
You're welcome, and I think everyone would say email the seller first, explain the issue, the seller may just do the right thing, but if not then escalate the dispute with ebay, don't stress as everything should be fine.Originally Posted by Grandiloquence
^^^^^This exactly^^^^^^ Allow the seller the opportunity to resolve the issue.I would suggest he allows you to return the watch and refund the money. Any resistance then put in a item not as described dispute.
Thanks chaps. I'll send him an email and see what he says.
The seller will probably accept the return of the watch, and then relist. Not every buyer will bother to pop the case back & check.
Had a similar issue years back buying additional ram for my laptop. Initially all looked ok, but when I ran a memtest program there were problems with the new ram.
Seller changed it no problems, but the cynic in me thinks there's a business there selling faulty/not as described goods for the full price and playing the percentages with returns...
Contact the seller first. He may have believed it to be a Val 72, but he should've checked when he realised that was important to you.
Paul
Thanks again for all the replies. I have emailed the seller and very politely but firmly registered my concerns and told him that I wished to return the watch for a refund. Hopefully it will be a misunderstanding on his part and he'll cooperate.
Photographic evidence will help your cause.
Especially before you send it back.
Sometimes the seller will claim that the watch has been returned with damage.
If you photograph it as returned with the incorrect movement, you can avoid a counter claim.
I'll take some snaps as backup! I have had a response but it's in French - my schoolboy French is in the distant past and I'm struggling to read the response. Anyone fluent in French that can help me out? Thanks in advance!
Try Google translate?
https://translate.google.co.uk
Cheers for that. It's still a bit confusing but it sounds like he wants to offer me a partial refund. Well at least he didn't tell me to get lost outright! I think I will still press for the refund as I really wanted a 72!
^^^ very true, once mentioned I would certainly have double checked!
Val.72s rock. My wife knows when I'm wearing one because she can hear it ticking. I have one on right now and am going slightly deaf in my left ear. I don't know what your budget is like but you can pick up Eterna Chronos on eBay, although not the drowned version currently on there in the US. Here's the story of mine:
http://thewatchspotblog.com/?p=3246
Paste the text in this thread.
That's a lovely watch, Foxy! Eterna make some lovely watches.
The message he sent me read:
"Vraiment désolé je l'avais au coffre ,je l'ai faites révisé pour 150e et acheté 600e pouvons nous ,nous arrangé sur la kelek je peu vous rajouté une centaine d 'euros
Dans l 'attente de votre répo"
Funny, I recently had a problem with a French seller who also wanted me to accept a partial refund. In my case, it was for an undisclosed defect - a malfunctioning internal bezel on a super compressor. Just stick to your guns and maintain that you would not have bought this watch if it didn't have a valjoux 72 in it. If he won't agree to a refund, you will simply file an eBay SNAD (significantly not as described) dispute where you will be able to prove your point. When shipping it back, you must send it tracked AND insured.
FWIW, Valjoux 72's are really nice and it's definitely worth holding out for a clean one. I just bought my 3rd and can imagine getting a few more down the road. Just be prepared to have it serviced sooner or later. That is the cost of collecting vintage watches.
Last edited by lenny; 21st August 2014 at 13:19.
I'm really sorry, it was in the safe. I had it serviced for 150 euros and bought it for 600 euros. Can we come to an arrangement over the Kelek - I can offer you 100 euros.
Looking forward to your reply.
Thanks Lenny & SimonK. Well, I certainly won't accept that as an offer. Bit insulting really!
Must be frustrating, finding something you like, then after delivery you find out it isn't a VJ72.
Could you post a link to the auction?
I'm quite interested what watch it was about!
So, you say
Je suis désolé mais je voulais un chrono avec un mouvement Valjoux 72. Je souhaiterais vous rendre la montre pour un remboursement et comme la montre n'était pas bien décrite, je pense que vous devriez payer aussi les frais de port.
Dans l'attente de votre réponse,
Cordialement,
Frustrating indeed. Add in the fact that I have to get the seller to agree to a refund! Here's the auction link:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rare-montr...item19f21685f5
Well, at least there's no way he can claim he didn't say it was a 72!
Good luck and stick to your guns.
Thanks for all the help and encouragement. And thanks SimonK - I have responded using your text. I owe you un biere!
You're welcome.
After all the melt downs recently,,,, great to see the place ticking along nicely.
Quite a friendly and helpful bunch if one of "us" is being stung, aren't we?After all the melt downs recently,,,, great to see the place ticking along nicely.
Grandiloquence, you don't need to get an approval of the seller for a refund when this goes on to become a dispute.
However, it's always better to arrange this with the seller, give him a chance to make it right.
The offer he makes is quite nice from his side, however, the watch clearly isn't what you were looking for.
Ok, I have had the seller's response. From what Google Translate tells me it sounds like he's willing to accept the return/refund:
"Désolé pour la confusion ce n 'est pas volontaire ,je suis d 'accord pour vous reprendre le chrono
Me permettez vous de le remettre en vente dés a present"
Looks like this may work out, fingers crossed.
He's asking your permission to relist it straight away. Work out what.the return postage is going to be and I'll draft a reply for you when I get home in an hour or so.
Well done boys. All is well good result
This could easily be the result of a genuine mistake, probably based upon wrong info the seller got after the watch was serviced or not properly understanding an explanation about watch movements.
Looks like the seller wants to handle it in a correct way.
Better this way than through e-bay and following an unfriendly process.
Yep, thanks again all. Only problem now is the eye-watering shipping rates. Seems getting adequate insurance for posting it back is going to cost north of £50 by UPS or FedEx. I notice that the seller posted using Colissimo and cheekily valued the watch at 500 Euro despite telling me he'd insure it for the full value!
I've had an issue like this on a cheap item. Was promised refund on return shipping but didn't get it in the end. Even though it was promised via eBay PM. They contacted seller but didn't enforce this to my annoyance.
http://www.parcelmonkey.co.uk/international/france – Parcelforce plus additional cover to £700 works out as £27 ish.
Try some others from this search – I used 1kg and 15x8x8 cm just to get a rough idea of how it compared to the PO's £52 odd! Robbing 'king 'stards!
I did look at Parcel Monkey, problem with Parcel Force is they class jewelry and watches as something that is not covered by their insurance.
Good to see positive responses and helpful comments.
Just how the forum should work.
Plus Parcel Farce are horrible when it comes to delivering to the mainland.
My "record" still stands at 10 weeks shipping from the UK to the Netherlands.
I would have gotten it sooner if I went to the UK swimming.
Colissimo is just the parcel service of the French post office, but it is generally very efficient. If the watch had got lost the under-insurance would have been his problem surely?
When I buy stuff from the UK it usually comes Royal Mail signed-for, is this not an option?
In my reply to the seller for you I asked him to cover the cost of return postage, maybe as he apparently made an honest mistake you could go halves on the cost of shipping the watch back to him?
Thanks Simon, I could use RM's International Tracked & Signed but the insurance tops out at £250. I guess it comes down to the risk of it being lost or damaged in transit. I have however used the service two or three times and it has proved to be fast and reliable. I think it would also work out as the cheapest option too. I would be willing to split the postage costs, I just want to get the situation resolved with minimum fuss to be honest!
On the PM site, restricted items listed only include jewellery, which is "at the sender's risk" if it goes awol.
No mention of watches separately or included as a jewellery item.
Just a thought - as you bought this from eBay, if you open a case (which they won't intervene until 8 or 10 days have elapsed) then you should be able to receive a refund of the full amount paid, so the only thing you're losing on is the return shipping.
With the way things are now, the seller is offering you just a refund of the item amount?
I'd make contact with eBay – you can open a case and close it if you are satisfied with the seller's response, or simply escalate it once the timeframe has lapsed, and they'll make a decision.
It may be that if it goes down that route, they'll email you a prepaid returns label, which has the sellers registered address – so you won't even have to pay a penny at all.
Chances are though, the cost to them will be passed on to the seller, but then that's part of using eBay with their Buyer Protection Guarantee policy.
An interesting point, however is this likely to antagonise a seller who appears to be cooperating? Also, if I send it back without opening a case will I no longer be eligible for protection?
eBay sides heavily with buyers. I'd press for the refund to include shipping. If the seller does not agree I would escalate to eBay.
please don't use parcel monkey buddy... they are cheaper for a reason.
ive had a bad time with them idiots and if anything goes wrong all you can do is online message people who don't care! eventually i got a refund but yeah don't go with them.
try myhermes... they seem ok. i use them more now.
We have a similar situation here in the US with USPS. What I do to get around it is purchase insurance through a third party (i.e., parcelpro) . That way, I have tracking, reliability and insurance for a reasonable price.
Last edited by lenny; 21st August 2014 at 22:21.
Sorry, been out and about so couldn't reply to the thread. Just looked at ParcelPro, seems ideal. I have contacted them regarding opening an account as a private individual rather than a business. Hopefully I will be able to sort it out because I would feel a lot more comfortable knowing that the insurance was done properly.
I wouldn't waste any extra money on shipping back to him as you can actually keep the watch, claim you sent it and ebay will still refund you, you simply cannot lose as a buyer with them. I would just send it back normal post or ask the buyer to pay for any extra. If the package gets lost ebay will still refund you even without tracked or recorded shipping, I don't believe they even analyse cases anymore they just refund buyers as quick as possible.
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