Reply With QuoteYou'd be better off getting a roar on Twitter going - by the time enough 'signatories' are gathered on a petition, it'll be too late.
It seems the local media are reporting it.
Eddie, I hope you don't mind me posting this here and my apologies for not asking first but time is of the essence.
You may be aware that a British yacht went missing in the Western Atlantic over the weekend. The US authorities have already called off the search and this is a petition to get the UK government to get it restarted. (The skipper is a friend of a colleague). Please consider signing the petition below.
Many thanks folks.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/65226
You'd be better off getting a roar on Twitter going - by the time enough 'signatories' are gathered on a petition, it'll be too late.
It seems the local media are reporting it.
Signed.
....not sure what good it will do for the guys lost, but I guess it could force a change of policy and possibly save other lives in the future.
It's a worrying story; you aren't supposed to be able to lose contact with a yacht equipped with modern gear... even if it sinks there should be an automatic alert. Even the life raft should have a beacon!
Also, it hasn't been missing all that long... it does seem premature to have given up searching.
Completed .
But concerning indeed as to why no beacons. I race on a similar boat , and was with these guys in a big race a few years ago .
Fingers crossed
OK...I've signed the petition. But I can understand why the USCG have suspended (that's the term I see being reported) the search.
The reports say that they received signals from two personal locator beacons rather than from the yacht's EPIRB (Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon). Rafiki is registered as having an EPIRB and the crew should have been able to deploy it in an emergency. It may, or may not, have been mounted to float free and activate in the case of a sinking. Contrary to a post above, life rafts are not required to have a beacon as part of their equipment (see Part 6 of Schedule 4 of MSN 1676(M)).
What information there is about the search shows that three large vessels and several aircraft took part, searching an area of "more than 4,000 square miles" for over two days (see USCG statement).
So, if the crew managed to abandon to the life raft (let's hope they did), why no EPIRB alarm? If they did, then there's some chance they'll be found, but no information to inform a further search. If they didn't, then it'll be assumed that they're in the water and survival times are not very long. The weather out there was shit.
It comes down to how long is it reasonable to search? Compare and contrast Malaysia Airlines MH370...glass fibre v metal wreckage, the amount of possible wreckage, black boxes etc and that hasn't been found. The USCG have made a difficult decision and I'm not going to say it was wrong, but, as a sailor myself, I have to hope that the search was a much as could reasonably be expected.
Here's hoping that condolences are premature, but...
We should also remember that those involved in the search are risking their own lives in what could turn out to be a fruitless task.
Its too easy to criticise those who called off the search, when its not your life on the line, and you may not have the full facts regarding the conditions at the search site.
News reports I've read suggest that the hull was found, that one beacon was activated and a following one after the first expired...
...strange, they haven't been found.
My faith in beacon accuracy is somewhat dented.
When I was in the USCG, the unofficial, black humour type motto was "You have to go out, but you don't have to come back." However, there had to be a reasonable chance of success.Originally Posted by Meinessex
Best wishes,
Bob
Apparently "Maersk Kure had located an upturned hull that matched the description of the Cheeki Rafiki": link.
The chances of a vessel on searching for a yacht/crew finding another hull mid-Atlantic must be minimally small. So...what happened to the crew? No sign of a life raft (they have searched) suggests that they went into the water...and that, plus time elapsed, supports the decision to suspend the search (in the absence of fresh information) by the USCG.
I will read the MAIB report with interest...I have many questions (based on the sparse information available and arising out of my own suppositions).
It's not looking good for the crew, I'm afraid.
US coastguard has started searching again!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27492026
In Search and Rescue you understand the risk associated but do the job. The worse the conditions, the more likely you are to be needed.
On Breakfast TV this morning, someone said they thought the keel had 'come off'.
A yacht like that should be a fairly safe place.
If I owned a similar yacht I would want mine checked by the manufacturer before I sailed it anywhere again.
I think I'd have doubts making about an Atlantic crossing in a racing Beneteau First 40.7 in the first place...especially if there was real bad weather about.
But then I'm a wimp who prefers good, well found, sea-boats and doesn't much like racing yachts!
Yes, my colleague who is a friend of the skipper says that keels come off all the time, these boats are designed for racing not ocean transits.
Image taken by Maersk Kure : link.
"Due to the ship's massive structure, 15-foot sea conditions, and amplifying weather, they were unable to retrieve the sailing vessel. They did not identify any other debris or signs of the missing crew."
With the revival of the search the RAF has deployed a Hercules to the Azores (Lajes) to participate: link.
The World Cruising Club has contacted the USCG to find out more information: link.
As a result, the WCC have informed the fleet on the ARC race leg from Bermuda to the Azores of the situation (link) and it seems that at least one vessel, Malisi, has diverted to search (link).
Looking at their Fleet Viewer it seems that Tosca may also have diverted. But her course has been pretty erratic, so maybe not...
Edit: USCG Update #1: link.
Last edited by PickleB; 21st May 2014 at 11:47.
At the beginning of the week, I saw someone say that the skipper of the Maersk Kure should have stopped and put someone on the overturned hull to see if there was anyone trapped underneath. I then searched for a picture of the ship and the weather conditions. Not what I would consider to be an ideal SAR platform.
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 21st May 2014 at 12:10.
Both myself and a work colleague are ex-merchant navy, and while we can understand the reluctance of the crew to attempt recovery of the yacht we rather think we would have at least attempted to investigate it. I wont go so far as to say the crew of the Kure should have done so - they were there and I wasn't after-all - but it is somewhat disappointing.
It isn't, but it does have old fashioned davits that could have launched AND recovered one of their lifeboats, so investigation was at least feasible.
How should they have investigated? They had no sea boat, as far as I can see (no davits). Almost certainly no crew experienced in sea boats in bad conditions. Going over the side of that kind of ship with a rope? Mad.
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 21st May 2014 at 12:20.
Ah, I must have missed the davits. Indeed, I have looked again, and I still cannot see them or lifeboats. I thought it is the kind of ship with liferafts rather than recoverable lifeboats.
Best wishes,
Bob
PS I checked, and the requirements are that there has to be at least one rescue boat, as well as lifeboats/liferafts. So, I stand corrected, and they could have launched, although it would have been very dangerous.
RLF
Last edited by rfrazier; 21st May 2014 at 12:55.
Judging by the amount of wash coming from the bow of the container ship, it seems to me that they sailed right on by without stopping.
Remember that ships like this can take several miles to come to a stop, and they also have a turning circle measured in miles.
So its really a complete fluke that they managed to find the yacht in the first place. The yacht was so low in the water, the ship would have been right on top of it before they even saw it. So by the time they had launched any lifeboats they would have been several miles away and probably still several hours away from getting back to the yacht in such conditions, during which time the USCG called off the search.
Quite so:
Edit:...and she has a crew of 15.
Last edited by PickleB; 21st May 2014 at 14:00.
They are orange to both sides of the bridge castle - clearly visible in many of the images Google shows up. She has two enclosed lifeboats - I think they are actually freefall, but not installed that way - and at least one gp / rescue / life boat; I can see one on images of the port side, but not the starboard... it might have two, just the other is obscured.
As to whether it would be dangerous to have launched one... I would have to say it must have been judged to be so or it would have happened, although perhaps with a different skipper and a different crew it might not have been judged so.
I understand entirely the decision not to risk anyone when all that could be observed was a hull, and I believe that the decision would have been different had there been people in the water, but it is still disappointing that it didn't happen - it could have answered a lot of questions.
Maersk Kure photo:
Bear in mind that she would have come up to windward of the wreck and so created a lee from the very strong winds on that side of the vessel. So the white water in the photo comes, I suspect, from her rolling in the wind and waves. With a vessel that size, I think that indicates it was quite lively out there. Just moving about the deck would be an adventure. But I'll defer to anyone with MN, RN or other experience of large ships.
I spent a couple of years working (and living) on a 378 foot high endurance cutter (USCGC Midgett). (And a couple of years doing comms in a RCC.) And have seen sea boats launched in 15ft seas (not sure about 50 knot winds). It is very lively, but that MV dwarfs the ship I was on. In any case, even with the sea boats closer to the water, highly trained crews, and reasonably good gear (dry suits, etc.), it was a dodgy business.
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 21st May 2014 at 14:41.
I was an ETO / RO - maybe we spoke at some point ;)
Sad
Let's just hope they are still out there !
The latest USCG statement.
They've located and identified the hull. A swimmer has investigated and found no survivors. "As a matter of policy, the U.S. Coast Guard does not perform salvage operations", so it may be that we never know more than that the keel was broken off and the hull holed.
Except that by now the USCGC Virorous should be on scene. Hopefully they are equipped to investigate the wreck.
Failing new sightings or other information the search will end tonight.
Very sad indeed.
Last edited by PickleB; 23rd May 2014 at 23:18.
Update #6: "The U.S. Coast Guard has confirmed the life raft aboard the capsized sailing vessel Cheeki Rafiki was secured in its storage space in the aft portion of the boat..."
It was a cargo version of the C-130. So, the search equipment onboard was the crew+binoculars. (The USCG C-130 is a specialised SAR version.) Perhaps the best thing to come out of this here is the highlighting of the consequences of retiring the Nimrod without having a replacement in place. The UK has no martime patrol aircraft, no long range air SAR capabilities.
Best wishes,
Bob
Yes, the USCG operate the SAR version HC-130 in two variants. The UK operates the C-103K or C-130J. But (according to Wiki) 1312 Flight RAF in the Falklands does operate the C-130 to provide "aerial refuelling, air transport, search and rescue and maritime patrol." So, at least they should have some experience and appropriate equipment.
And you're right, the loss of a dedicated long range maritime patrol aircraft has left a gap in the UK's diminishing capabilities.
Capsized yacht boss accused over deaths:
James Male, Andrew Bridge, Steve Warren and Paul Goslin died when Cheeki Rafiki, the yacht they were sailing, capsized in the North Atlantic
.
Prosecutors at Winchester Crown Court said yacht manager Douglas Innes failed to get it checked ahead of its trip.
Mr Innes, of Stormforce Coaching, denies four counts of manslaughter by gross negligence.
Yacht firm boss guilty of safety breach
The head of a yacht firm has been found guilty of failing to ensure the safety of a yacht which capsized in the Atlantic with the loss of four lives.
Douglas Innes had been responsible for the Cheeki Rafiki, which lost its keel 700 miles off Nova Scotia in May 2014.
His company Stormforce Coaching was also convicted of the same charge.
The jury at Winchester Crown Court was unable to reach verdicts on four manslaughter charges against Innes and was discharged.
The guilty verdicts on the safety charges were by a majority of 10-1.
A very sad story reading this again.
A few weeks back, a Dutch yacht with 4 sailors lost its keel and capsized within a second. Only one survived: the owner's grandson. What makes it special for us, is the fact that the surviving sailor is a sailing buddy of my oldest son. They are not in the same team but they meet, talk and compete on the water every weekend during the season. Next week, as a prelude to the worldchampionship, they will meet again for a training week.
It is going to be a different week.
Menno
I hadn't heard about that. If it's the Capella, according to the web there were 6 on board; three fatalities and three survivors.
I've been in the locality of where it happened (within sight of Oostende) and know that it can be very uncomfortable (don't underestimate the North Sea). It brings home how rapidly things can happen. A lost keel and capsize is down the list of probable accidents...but this thread now has two such incidents with very, very sad consequences.
It will, no doubt, scar the young man for life...but I hope that he can still enjoy his sailing (so too the other surviving crew).
Edit: Unrelated, but I've also entered Blankenberge quite a few times, without managing this:
It may be silting up...
Last edited by PickleB; 14th July 2017 at 17:07.
It is rough out there with a lot of current. The kids always sail in their opti's and lasers from Nieuwpoort, down the IJzer river to the sea. The wooden contraptions (how do I call these in English!?) on both sides of the river entrance are something to reckon with. My wife had to train for her RYA master certificate near that spot! The swell and current is very tricky. Despite that, every year the youngsters in their opti's and later lasers go out and race on the sea.
Capella was built and owned by Frans Maas. He was already a young yachtbuilder when I lived in the same village (Breskens) when I was a young boy. Capella was maintained by Maas' own shore crew. The idea is that the keel hit something (container?) and snapped off leaving no time for a distress signal.
Time will tell. And I am sure I will learn more about this during the Worldchampionship next two weeks.
Menno
Nieuwpoort:
With opti's:
Last edited by thieuster; 14th July 2017 at 17:57.
James Male was the son of a chap I used to play youth football with. His father and I were in the same team, but although we lost contact when we left school, there's still something personal about this tragedy. My own son is the same age as James, and I can't imagine what the family, along with the families of the other three crew members, must have gone through.
Re "The wooden contraptions (how do I call these in English!?) on both sides of the river entrance".
That's a very good question. There's no single word but they are best described as piers. Because there's a pair of them they might be called 'approach piers' or 'entrance piers' to describe their purpose. One publication describes them as 'wooden pile piers'.
Once seen...never forgotten.
In Dutch they are called 'piers' as well, but in the Dutch speaking part of Belgium - like here on the Belgian coast, these are called 'staketsels'. According to Google, the translations for that is 'palisades'.
Menno
Could also be called a 'jetty'.
Yacht crews rescued after Atlantic storm
A major rescue operation has taken place in the mid-Atlantic after a fleet of yachts that set out from the UK was hit by a "once in a lifetime" storm.
Luxury ocean liner the Queen Mary 2 has rescued lone yachtsman Mervyn Wheatley after he issued a mayday.
A massive storm, which saw 15m waves and 60-knot winds, left a number of yachts in trouble.
This thread may give pause for thought to those of us who venture out to sea, but there's a happier ending to this story:
The RWYC said it has been liaising with coastguard teams and says everyone is now safe.
Let's hope that no-one else has been caught out.
Cheeki Rafiki yacht director cleared:
The director of a yacht management company has been cleared of the manslaughter of four men who died when their vessel capsized in the Atlantic.
The crew of the Cheeki Rafiki died after the 40ft vessel lost its keel and capsized more than 700 miles off the coast of Nova Scotia in May 2014.
Douglas Innes, 43, was cleared of four counts of manslaughter by gross negligence following a retrial at Winchester Crown Court.
The crew's bodies were never found.
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