Reply With QuoteI can't offer an concrete advice, but it was nice to hear that the AD took care of the service cost. Also, at least with Rolex USA, when you have an AD send in a watch for you Rolex becomes very unresponsive to dealing directly with the customer.
Hi all,
In late January I bought a NOS Amvox from an authorised JLC dealer. It was brand new and came with full two year warranty and stamped papers. I was very pleased to have found one and even posted my enthusiasm here:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...nd-JLC-content
Unfortunately things haven't been plain sailing since. A couple of days after I bought the watch I noticed that the power reserve was low and it wasn't keeping very good time. I took it back to the AD who advised that it would need to go back to the JLC service centre in London. This was at the end of January.
I was a little disappointed by this as I was still enjoying my new toy but these things happen and I do love the watch so I let it go. The AD was very apologetic and has been very good throughout.
After 10 days there was no word of acknowledgement from JLC so the AD contacted them to be told that the watch (having been unused for a long period) required a full service which would take about six weeks. Not great, but six weeks isn't a huge amount of time and then I'd have the best of both worlds - a brand new watch under full warranty that was just back from a full service at the service centre.
After six weeks the AD had to call to chase the watch and was told that because it wasn't a warranty repair it had been bumped in the queue and would now take at least another month. I obviously wasn't happy about that but JLC's position is that because the watch was NOS at the dealer they won't treat it as a priority repair - plus (unbelievably), the AD has to pay the full cost of the service to JLC (£700+)!
I called the AD today as the four weeks are up and again they tried to get through to JLC for several hours. When they eventually got a response they were told that because of the Easter holidays, JLC are behind on servicing and it will therefore be at least another 2 weeks but no guarantees. If does take another 2 weeks, that will be 14 weeks since I took it back.
I'm really unhappy about this. I decided to try JLC after being a very loyal Rolex customer for a number of years but was recently let down badly (ironically over a service - they refused to carry out a standard service on a vintage watch without replacing the dial and hands and polishing the case and bracelet, none of which needed doing and the bill would have been c. £1400) by them so as I like JLC I thought I'd try them....I'm now regretting it.
I have of course read a number of horror stories on here and elsewhere about Richemont service and attitude to customers but I suppose I just put my head in the sand - plus the watch was brand new so I wasn't expecting to need the service department for a while.
Anyhow, I'm in two minds. I honestly can't think of any other industry where a manufacturer would be happy for a customer to pay several thousand pounds for a new item from an authorised dealer which turned out to be faulty and then allow them to wait an indeterminate amount of time to have it back - no formal comms, no apology, absolutely nothing to suggest they even vaguely value or even acknowledge me as a customer. I'm also quite worried that this episode will spoil my enjoyment of the watch when I eventually get it back, which would be a real shame and I hope it doesn't.
My question is should I now look to escalate directly with JLC or allow the AD to carry on their (apparently fruitless) efforts to expedite the service? I read Baz's thread on his issues with Panerai but have others had better luck with the manufacturer or the dealer? Anyone have any senior contacts at JLC?
Sorry for the long post, I'm normally fairly patient but this is getting silly.
Thanks in advance.
I can't offer an concrete advice, but it was nice to hear that the AD took care of the service cost. Also, at least with Rolex USA, when you have an AD send in a watch for you Rolex becomes very unresponsive to dealing directly with the customer.
It was a bad after sales experience that put me off the brand after having had 2 pieces. The final straw was when they claimed to be unable to refinish part of the watch and tried to charge 25% - 30% of the original purchase price of the watch to replace just that part, I declined. Then after a 600Euro service they returned the piece with burnish marks on each link of the bracelet, so it needed to go back again. Love the watches, but hate the service which is incongruous with the prices you pay.
OP - I think your instincts are right, go as high up as you can in JLC (UK) and recount the sorry tale to the MD/CEO. That way you by-pass service centre and AD blockages.
I had 5 months of nonsense from Omega and an AD with a new Speedy, so I know your pain. The very best of luck to you!
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
If you've only just got it and it's under a 2 year warantee, why does the dealer have to pay to get it serviced??
Seems strange to me
Tim
What sorry tale? That the watch has joined the queue to be serviced?Originally Posted by dkpw
We'd all like our watches rushed through, warranty work comes first though and this isn't warranty!
Excellent that the dealer paid up though.
you bought this with a warranty in place, or so you believed?
you now find out that because it was NOS, there is no warranty and the AD has to shoulder the cost?
you need to go to the AD and demand your money back, and let him deal with the nonsense, if he doesn't want to, put it in writing and go small claims route,
what happens if this happens again? once you have it ?
I really would not be wanting this watch back, they can keep it IMHO.
Yes, this does seem very odd indeed. Either the watch is new or not.
Is it the AD telling porkies or the manufacturer changing their mind after the fact.
The watch is supposedly brand new (NOS doesn't change this) so it surely should be a warranty repair.
Don't forget your consumer rights. Whilst pratting around with manufacturers' warranties is one thing (and this alleged post facto redefinition of the watch as not new afterall is absurd) is one thing, you still have rights within consumer law and these apply between you and the retailer (the manufacturer is nothing to do with it).
It's all very well my saying this now but if it had been me and the watch had been faulty so soon after purchase then I would simply have asked for my money back or a replacement (as per usual statutory consumer rights). There is no way I would have waited for the watch to be serviced under the (apparently disappearing!) manufacturer's warranty.
As things stand, now that time has passed, things seems a bit more complicated. Taking it up with Richemont seems sensible, to at least see what they say (does it match what the AD says?).
Thanks for the comments all.
To clarify - I bought the watch brand new, from a JLC AD, with a full "warranty". I did know it was discontinued and therefore had been in stock for a while. It didn't occur to me to check the definition of "warranty" at the time as I've never had this situation occur before.
It appears (and to be fair I do only have the AD's word for this) that my warranty is now with the dealer, not with JLC. A slightly unusual situation and they have not balked at bearing the service cost at all. It would appear that the "warranty" between JLC and the dealer ran out while the watch was still in stock.
My view is that this shouldn't really be my problem - I bought a new watch in good faith. However, I do like the watch and I want to keep it. It's unlikely that I will find another new Amvox 1 so a refund is not much use to me. I would hope it's a reasonable view that this should be treated by JLC as a warranty repair and expedited. Whether 6, 12 or 14 weeks is a reasonable timeframe to carry out work that takes perhaps a few hours is another discussion altogether.
I'm therefore just trying to get my watch back - or at least a commitment of a date - having had two missed already. I've had it in my possession for two days in the last 12 weeks. I would generally just keep up the pressure on the dealer as my contract is clearly with them but it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, thus my question. Hope this makes sense.
I have just looked at JLC's website and perhaps as par for the course, no email address is published - just the usual "contact us" form. There is a "concierge" service phone number which I will call tomorrow (amusingly, the "call me back" function appears to have no availability until Friday). I am hoping to avoid starting at the bottom with a contact centre and having to recount my story the inevitable 2-3 times, so if anyone has direct contact details for someone who might be able to make something happen at JLC I'd be very grateful if you would pass them on.
If this is true, and it would be surprising, that's a horrible way for Richemont to handle warranties.
Surely the warranty with JLC starts when the AD stamps and dates the paperwork? Therefore the warranty couldn't have expired as it hadn't started! All sounds pretty poor to me.
Have to query the above remark that there is an association between NOS and expired warranty – warranty doesn't start/come into effect until the first owner purchases it and is registered.
So, if the above is correctly linking the two, then the OP needs to have definitive proof that the watch wasn't previously registered and returned for the same issue or something else.
I appreciate you just want the watch and to enjoy it, but I can't help but raise my eyebrows at the aggro and stick Seiko gets on here, when the much vaunted brands do their utmost to destroy customer confidence in them, giving the impression they view their customers as nothing more than gullible cash cows.
However, as much as I want to tell you to take your money and spend it on another brand more deserving, that's not what you want to hear – so on that basis, I'd echo the above comment about detailing your situation and frustration to the upper ranks of JLC UK or Switzerland.
Daniel Riedo is the CEO, and I'm certain his email is daniel.riedo@jaeger-lecoultre.com (or daniel_riedo)
The alternative is to use Twitter to regal your woes – very often in other businesses, action is swift when complainants undertake that route to getting their issue noticed.
Last edited by PJ S; 23rd April 2014 at 18:46.
JLC are quite active on Twitter so making a fuss there could work.
Thank you all again for the suggestions and you raise some interesting questions. I'm only too aware that I only have the AD's side of the tale but I'm not sure why they'd be making it up.
Ironically (given that I've posted this on a forum), I'm not looking to make a big fuss - I just want someone to care enough to service my watch and send it back to me.
I've had some good suggestions and an email address (much appreciated) so I'll try calling/emailing and see if I can make something happen tomorrow.
The more horror stories I hear about Richemont's poor service, the more I think Eta movements are the way to go, that way you can send your watch to someone trustworthy.
Should just be a refund issue for me. Or at least a credit note for a different piece.
Disgraceful.
Not always - a friend of mine sent his IWC Aquatimer to our local watchy here. Sadly the watch after service didn't pass the pressure test and so needs new seals. Problem is, where do you get seals from - IWC aren't handing them out so easily.....
Sorry to hear this but I am not surprised. Hopefully they have now started work on it?
I would suggest you contact them via the contact us on the website. I think it is answered by someone in their head office and in that way you have a paper trail.
Mind you I have not used their concierge service.
When IWC started with their in-house movements they had issues with terrible time keeping. I recall at least a few cases of people having to live with +/-60 seconds/day on their Big Pilots. I haven't heard about it lately, but seeing that play out in real time convinced me that being an early adopter of new in house brands is courting disaster. I'll stick with my ETA based Pre-Richemont IWCs.
The OP has an issue with a JLC not an IWC, but just for the sake of clarity you should be aware that IWC haven't just "started with their in-house movements" - they have been at it for a few decades
JLC have an enviable reputation as a manufacture and so, before dumping on them, if I was the OP I would be asking the AD for evidence that they have actually been communicating with JLC and have accurately reported back on their position.
What in house movements was IWC producing prior to the introduction of the 3227 and after 1985? Add on complications? Sure. Complete movements... Are you one of those guys that actually thinks Panerai is an "old brand"?The OP has an issue with a JLC not an IWC, but just for the sake of clarity you should be aware that IWC haven't just "started with their in-house movements" - they have been at it for a few decades
JLC have an enviable reputation as a manufacture and so, before dumping on them, if I was the OP I would be asking the AD for evidence that they have actually been communicating with JLC and have accurately reported back on their position.
If you can't be bothered to do a bit of research, I can't be bothered to tell you - but it isn't difficult to find out!What in house movements was IWC producing prior to the introduction of the 3227 and after 1985? Add on complications? Sure. Complete movements... Are you one of those guys that actually thinks Panerai is an "old brand"?
Incredibly poor service, when I read these stories concerning poor customer service from high end brands it makes me appreciate brands that do get it right - Rolex and Seiko are two good examples.
I recently bought a Seiko Marine Master Kinetic Direct Drive from this forum, I thought that as it was a few years old and had a few owners I would drop it into the UK Seiko Centre for a check up. I dropped it in yesterday and asked them to check it over and let me know whether it required a service, today just 24 hours later they called to say that they replaced all the seals, pressure tested it, checked it over and said everything was fine and it was ready to collect as it didn't need a service and passed all the tests including WR and timekeeping with flying colours, all for just £30! Bearing in mind this is an expensive Seiko with a retail at over 1K, I appreciate a watch with a complicated mechanical movement is more complicated/time consuming but even so I would expect much better from JLC - Richemont.
Wow, that is very impressive by Seiko. Thanks for sharing that.
My advice to the OP before reading this was going to be to just wait it out as surely after such a wait it will only be a matter of another week or so, why stress himself out more by trying to speed things up when it is unlikely to make much difference...but if as you say the wait can be 6 months, then the OP should see what he can do to hurry things along.
6 months tho is shocking, also sounds by the response the OP has already got from JLC that they are not too concerned the service times are this bad.
Paying a few hundred pounds to have to wait so long for a service, makes me feel they are treating their buyers as mugs.
Is this bad service from JLC or bad service from the dealer?
Personally I would accept that things do go wrong and return to point of purchase who would duly dispatch to JLC but if a problem develops in the supply chain between dealer and service centre then thats not my problem its the dealers and they should accept responsibility, satisfy the customer and take issue with the provider.
It is acceptable to expect a wait of a few weeks, this is the norm with most all luxury watches but when that is extended and it starts to get messy its time to be polite and respectfully request a resolution. I do raise the odd eyebrow when I hear of bad service as 'approach' is often a precursor to good service, done right it can reap dividends, stamping ones feet and demanding can be detrimental to all.
Final point is that we hear 2-3 stories about a problem but we never hear several thousand or million stories about the watches that tick fine and when they do have a wobble get fixed in good order and returned etc
RIAC
I have never heard of any manufacturer not honouring a warranty because the watch was old/discontinued/NOS. That is absurd. The warranty starts once the item has been purchased - where is this not true of ANY product in any industry????
Richemont strikes again!
I agree with this post, it is absurd that warranty has expired when never previously activated, unless the dealer has not divulged something? However, personally I'd wait it out if you really like the watch, but the dealer has stomped up £700 very easily and tbh, that does make me a little curious.
Thanks again for replies. I had quite a busy day at work today and didn't get the chance to call JLC but that meant I've had chance to consider some of the responses on this thread and think things over. I'm planning to drop into the dealer tomorrow and have a heart to heart about the situation - I'll be able to ask specific questions and read body language, etc.
If I'm comfortable that they are doing all they can then I'm likely to wait another couple of weeks and see if the watch comes back before escalating, but if not then I'll get involved directly tomorrow.
I agree that warranty running out from the manufacturer for NOS sounds absurd. I suppose it shouldn't really affect me as the dealer is paying the bill but it's the disregard for the situation that's bugging me.
Whatever happens though, I'm disappointed with JLC - this could and should have been dealt with much more quickly and sensibly. I hardly ever have a problem with service as I learned long ago that being positive and polite goes a very long way - it takes a lot for me to move to any other position but I'm heading in that direction.
Will keep you posted.
I've got to say, the experiences people have with high end watches are very off putting. In what other market is it normal to buy an item for thousands of pounds, only to have to lose it for 6 months at a time when something goes wrong with it? Especially for a luxury good where you would expect customer service to be of the highest priority.
It's my understanding that Patrick Phillip service time is four to six months as the norm. It seems to be an industry wide issue, with some odd exceptions.
Swiss watch industry wide, it seems...
I received a newsletter yesterday from JLC via le courrier électronique which might shed some light on the reason behind their current servicing delays. Apparently they only have one technician available at the moment...
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Really sorry to hear about your bad experience. I recently had one with Omega, spanning 6 months and ended up selling it in the end, due to my experience just being ruined. Really is diabolical how some of these brands operate with their 'aftercare' service.
I hope it gets sorted promptly.
For what it's worth, I had good experience of JLC a few years ago. I bought a white gold reverso from Bluewater. A few days later when looking at the movement with a loupe, I discovered a tiny scratch where something had rubbed on the hinge mechanism. I called the manager at the shop, who I'd got to know pretty well and arranged to take it in. He looked at it and agreed it wasn't good enough. He made a few phone calls over a few days. I left the watch with him and he loaned me another Reverso from the window!
A couple of weeks later he asked me to come back to meet a rep from JLC. I did and this guy had a watch roll with 5 watches of similar type and value. I agreed to take the same watch in pink gold and they refunded me the difference there and then.
i don't know how much of this was JLC, dealer or Richemont but I'm just mentioning this because things can go well. I suspect it pays to have built up a relationship with a good branch manager. It was Goldsmiths Bluewater and the guy moved to Frazer Hart a couple of years later.
It does sound like there might have been a mis-communication - maybe the dealer told you a cut-down version of the story to save time/make it seem like they were doing more to get it sorted?
This sounds like the AD sold you a pre-sold watch...
...so the original warranty would have been activated and expired some time ago. Possibly a customer return that just languished on display for a couple of years until you snapped it up at a 'bargain' price.
I am no fan of Richemont, but even they would not fail to honour a new warranty on a watch even if discontinued or (truly) NOS.
There's definitely more to this story than your AD is telling you! The fact they happily stumped up £700 for the repair of a 'brand new' watch is VERY suspicious.
That gives the OP his money back, but it doesn`t get him the watch he wanted.
Frankly, I`m amazed to hear stories like this. Even if the watch has been in stock for a couple of years there should be no problems with the functioning. JLC should still honour the warranty and shouldn`t (IMO) be seeking to shift it onto the dealer. They clearly don`t have the capacity to deal with servicing/warranty work, they charge silly money for their servicing, and they virtually force owners to be tied to their own service centre. Not a brand I would recommend, but if I liked one of their models I guess I`d consider buying.
Paul
Time for an update as we're two weeks on. For those not following closely, this week was the third date I have been given to receive my watch, the first two having been missed.
After the advice above a couple of weeks ago I spoke to the dealer and they convinced me to let them sort it with JLC - to be honest I can do without the hassle and it was only two weeks so I let them get on with it.
I called the dealer today and they contacted JLC. They have now put the date back to the end of May (i.e. 14 weeks on, they haven't started it). No proactive updates, no communication, nothing.
The AD couldn't have been more apologetic so I asked for the contact details of the senior person they have been dealing with at JLC and called myself.
Naturally the person is on holiday today and there are no other managers/supervisors in the whole department...
I therefore patiently explained the situation to the person who answered and asked them to find someone senior who could make a decision on this today. She asked me to hold for a moment, then hung up.
I called back and was told (by the same person) that they didn't want to discuss it with me and would contact the AD. They couldn't get me off the phone quickly enough. This was the concierge service.
I called the owner of the AD after a short time and they had spoken to JLC. The upshot is that the 26th May is deadline day. If I don't have the watch back and in perfect condition by the 26th May, the dealer will give me my money back or exchange the watch (obviously the law requires them to do this so they aren't doing me any favours but they have done their best here and it certainly isn't their fault).
I'll let you know how this tale ends but I'm a bit stunned at the moment. I had been a little concerned that there was something the AD wasn't telling me but I'm now convinced that JLC just honestly doesn't care about this at all. It's been a very long time since I've experienced this kind of attitude but our little community deserves to know how much this company values our business (admittedly this is only my example but I'm hardly alone).
Thanks again for the good advice and support I've received so far.
Have you thought about writing something on their Facebook or Twitter pages (as if by magic I've just received a copy of the JLC Newsletter by email as I'm typing this)? Not sure that a link to this thread is necessarily the best option as their arrogance suggests that the first thing they'll do is point some very expensive lawyers at Eddie rather than fixing anything but there mut be an angle there.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
It truly is a shocking way to treat a customer, if I were you I would hope that the deadline would pass and get your money back. Richemont customer service really seems to be the pits.
Good to know; thanks for taking the time to share that.
I did think about this but I don't have a Facebook or Twitter account and I'm not really inclined to set one up just to deal with this.
I'm being careful regarding the details I post as you are quite right - I don't want to get Eddie into any trouble. That said, there's very little for them to debate in what I've posted - it's not exactly subjective.
Thanks again for comments.
Get a refund. I would not want it now anyway... and you might pick one up second hand that works... and save a few quid.
What a useless bunch they are!
How long does it take to service one of these, surely only 2-3 hours? why another 3 weeks wait? seems they are unwilling to give any priority to this watch at all.
Seems to me JLC are treating this as a standard service, their thinking is, it takes as long as it takes and why should this customer jump to the front of the queue, no account of the fact it's a new watch and the customer has been told twice it would be returned to them by now.
and you get all this lovely treatment for the small cost of £700!
You should do this. This is a brand that needs binning in favour of one that looks after its customers, new and old.
The "Tribute" models are the only JLCs I'd be interested in, but even though the watches are very good, I'd be just that little bit warier of them, knowing I cannot rely on the company that made it, and that the company may not stand behind their product.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
And yet you're still proceeding with owning one of their products?
Forgive me (or don't) but you're an absolute idiot for persisting with this purchase one minute longer.
It's as obvious as the nose on your face, that they are treating you with utter contempt, yet you lie down and take it, all because one of their shiny baubles gives you a major league bat when you look at it?
Give the AD your money by all means, but put it into a different shiny bauble from a brand that gives a shit about its customers – it's not as if there's any shortage of deserving alternatives for similar money or less.
Last edited by PJ S; 9th May 2014 at 15:20.
Thanks for the honest perspective. It may well come to that but I'm going to give it to the end of the month.
This stuff happens - the watch had been in stock for a while so it wasn't a huge surprise that it needed a service. I did get a very good deal on it and I do really like the watch - plus the dealer has been very good. I don't want to react emotionally as the ideal outcome is for me to get the fully serviced and warrantied watch back.
It's obviously very unlikely that I'll buy any future Richemont products but I'm a fair way down the path with this one now. I've given a deadline which I'll stick to and overall I'm not going to lose out.
It's a real shame about the way this has gone. I always thought JLC was one of the special watchmakers (and everything that goes with that) but it seems perhaps not.
We're at what now, week 14/15? A few more weeks won't make you any less of a doormat.
Look up the word "contempt", if you don't know it off hand.
If this were a £3-4K Mac Pro, and Apple acted in any way similarly – you and everyone else here knows only far too well what your action would be.
So why do you extend a by-ball to them?
Is this a prime example of the current trend to reward failure?
Your desire to acquire this model has seriously clouded your common sense judgement.
JLC are definitely a special watchmaker, but that's tempered with their arrogant and dismissive attitude towards yourself, which I'd find it very hard to believe was a one-off.
The dealer has a question to be answered – which shouldn't even be a question since the warranty of any retail product begins not when the manufacturer or reseller decides, but once the customer has made the purchase.
Doesn't matter if the product was "lost" under a shelf for 10 years, the moment it's offered for sale and subsequently then purchased, the warranty begins.
Even if the reseller discounts the hell out of it, and tells you it has no warranty because of the deep discount or time lapsed since acquiring it from the wholesaler/manufacturer, under UK law (Sale of Goods Act) the warranty is still intact.
The only time a warranty ceases to be valid is when the manufacturer goes down the pan (obviously!) or bought over, but even then it's generally a given that outstanding existing warranties are honoured.
That all said, there's nothing to prevent you keeping your money within this dealer's store, my argument is which shiny trinket manufacturer gets the benefit of said sale.
Lastly, I don't think I'd tar all brands under Richemont's roof as equally customer unfriendly – I suspect each has as much autonomy in that department, as they do in the others.
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